Do you believe you could be the real you in any environment, any time?

Let's say the real you is a loving, compassionate being. And let's say you were born in a ancient civilization where people were killed in sacrifice to the gods, or where the gladiators died in the arena for the pleasure of the cheering crowd. In that time, and in that environment, do you believe the real you, the compassionate you could see past the cruelty and know that what most people were embracing was very wrong?

And if we remove time from the equation, if you as a compassionate and enlightened being were born in present day Pakistan where those that want sharia law to be the only law (maybe I'm wrong, but I presume this is the majority), would you be able to not agree with the 89% that agree with stoning to death adulterers.

Social pressure can be hard to resist, but I want to believe I could be in the small minority that resist in a difficult environment, and sometimes in a difficult time.

a reply to: droid56


they certainly do resist, and are usually put to death for it.

No, I am mostly a product of my environment. If I live in another time or place I would expect to learn different lessons and react differently to situations.

That said, I'd like to think there is a bit more to it than environment and genetics.

You can be the real you, but you must be prepared to die for your beliefs and actions. There is very little tolerance or justice in the real world or any of our histories.

a reply to: droid56

Most humans are based around compliance. It's why the asch test exists. That doesn't mean that all humans are incapable of thinking, but most will follow the pack or follow emotional reason.

There was a recent study that demonstrated that people who less 'likeable' are more likely to rebel when given the asch test, and more likely to point out the proceedings are morally wrong. Those people have always been necessary to guide humanity away from stupidity but no one likes them. The sad fact may be that most of the people in concentration camps during WWII were nice, friendly people. In the same way some of our greatest moral outliers and visionaries were known to be rude, short, out spoken, irreverent ...

I'm only kind of answering your thought OP but I believe its the most one can do. These thinkers can and do exist throughout all of history but they rarely get put in charge of anything.

a reply to: droid56

The thing is, that if we are talking about ancient civilisations in ancient times, then yes, without a doubt, I could be MORE like myself than I ever am in this day and age.

You see, although I am capable of understanding many things about this world I live in, and even enjoying some of the trappings of modern life, the access to the internet for example, I am not at all happy that social conventions which prevail today, mean that I may not strike down those who question my honour to my face, or in a legal setting, that I may not call another man out and duel him for a slight, that I am not permitted to carry a sword in my own homeland, that it is not the responsibility of every adult to carry a blade in potential defense of his or her nation, his or her community, and his or her hearth itself.

I believe that I would be better suited to an age where one lives fast, dies hard, and does no damned paperwork in the process. Unfortunately for me, I was born a little later than perhaps I ought to have been. But trust me, I would rather be having a sword fight than doing pretty much anything else!

I think I would have been a better me in the right environment so yes environment do play in. I am quite happy that I am able to be what I am compared to the environment I was raised in.

originally posted by: TrueBrit

I believe that I would be better suited to an age where one lives fast, dies hard, and does no damned paperwork in the process. Unfortunately for me, I was born a little later than perhaps I ought to have been. But trust me, I would rather be having a sword fight than doing pretty much anything else!

i know exactly what you are saying. i often feel the same way. i feel like i was born in the wrong time.

there is just something about me that tells well, me that i would have been better suited in another time.
when? i dont have an answer for that.

i dont really know how to explain exactly what i am trying to say

Rather than thinking I would rather life in an age where I could wear my sword and use it if necessary, I would rather imagine that if I was born into today's Pakistan, I would be able to see that stoning my child to death because she married someone I didn't okay was just plain wrong. Goodness in any person, any country, any culture should dominate no matter the societal pressure.

It's a complex question, but I can't help looking at it from my own personal situation. It is something I struggle with daily.

I am an american living in France. Besides the fact that the two cultures are almost completely opposed to each other in values, I went from a urban upbringing to a rural area (so you get an extra layer of cultural difference you could even find within the same country).

The question eventually becomes- what is meant by "the real you"?

Is it the values, views and behaviors you were conditioned with early in life?
Those were fed to you by others, by a specific environment. Why does that make it "truly" you?
You didn't choose your views on right and wrong- someone else did.

And yet, they are so hard to change, that it could be argued they are too deeply programmed to not be considered part of your "core" being.

Besides judging right and wrong, good and bad, in a totally different environment, I found it more productive to instead work on trying to understand instead. Traditions, practices, values, all have a purpose within any system.
Where they might not be rational or useful in one system, they may in another.

To give an example of what I mean-

In a culture which is more collectivist in values (as opposed to individualistic) conformity is valued, standards relied upon as guidelines for all, a government considered to be "of the people"- therefore retaining power to limit the individual corporations to a bigger extent from taking advantage of or manipulating the population (basically values americans call "socialistic"...)

In that system cheating is subtly encouraged and accepted!

That still rubs me the wrong way. But in that system, the laws are put into place and enforced to restrict the big guys, not the little guys. Also, with so many rules and limitations on behavior and choice, it becomes necessary to break them in order to individualize! It is only in transgressing the lines that one expresses their personal individual will- which they do think is important too.

The standards and framework are put there to protect the weaker from the wolves, and to be relied upon for those unable to set their own for themselves (children, people who are immature emotionally, intellectually, handicapped, elderly).
But if you are sure you are able to fend for yourself, then you can go for it. But then you're on your own- you won't be protected any more. If you cheat the wrong person, you will face the consequences. You will be dealing with the natural laws of the jungle.

So cheating is considered the eventual graduation from immaturity. It is sort of hypocritical- because it is a cultural concept that is implicit- it is not outwardly directly expressed. (except by a few french psychologists) You will see it in the way people behave- not only breaking the rules around them, but expressing a nonchalance toward the perception of someone else doing so.

What I keep finding is that even what I will immediately call bad, turns out to have a context that I never would have guessed, and that spins my head backward.

That doesn't mean I am able to change my own conditioned behaviors (I remain someone who likes rules and follows them, by principle) but it means others look at me with disrespect and treat me like a weak child. They think I am a stupid sheep-person That gets very frustrating at times- in the workplace, for example.

But they don't know that I look at the framework of rules as ones I chose to put myself in and I can get out of whenever I want! I chose to accept this job, with the rules it has- I will quit if I ever decide I really don't want to adhere to them.
It is a matter of integrity to my own choices- not to the boss person.
They cannot fathom such an idea of personal power and choice. If I try to explain to them my very different perspective, where I am coming from, it would twist their head around.

One can withstand their own integrity within a different environment easier if they work on understanding the environment.

No this is not possible. YOU are a direct result of your enviornment.

Science has taught us that predictable outcomes are determined by the associated variables.

People will sit here and tell you all day that the environmental variables don't matter but guess what... Science tells us otherwise. I mean seriously just look at what the scientific process is.

a reply to: droid56

Usually we can only offer help to those whom are willing to accept it.

a reply to: droid56

I think I would be me no matter when I was born. I dont hold many preconceptions of my era. I embrace my dark and light side. I am one side. Ironically, I would probably be more "myself" if I was born even a few hundred years ago.

There are things I have gotten use to, but honestly I could cut them off like an old scab. I dont think our era is particularly special beyond our technological advancements. Spiritually or even philosophically, we are stunted in our growth.

There are exceptions of coarse, great exceptions. In the big picture, its still all relative.

Its better to not be a product of your era, but to be a product of YOU. Its all valid, just stay in control through balance.

I am not exactly fitting in with the world as is. I would probably be happier in harsher, more worthy ages.