Criminalizing IS support and the disillusioned return home. Two teens wish to return from Raqqa.

unfortunately they need to be made an example of. bring them home, let them tell their story for a little leniency, use a lie detector, have them serve some time. it wont kill them. its not like they're gonna be in a US prison.

a reply to: Nimes
Are you saying that somehow two supposedly pregnant females are a threat to there whole way of life, and are somehow going to undermining there whole social structure, in some sort of Trojan horse maneuver? Well if that is the case then the problem may lie with the country and structure of the nation or the plain stupidity of the populous if it somehow it all falls, and all because of two people, much more so then anything else.

Sorry bro but if somehow two young females or anybody really somehow would sway or manages to corrupt and bring down a whole nation of millions of people...I think I would rather move as far away from all those millions of people, just in case whatever it is that they have is spread by close contact or is airborne.

There have been many cases of teenagers being "brainwashed" and conned into committing crimes. And generally they are punished, even though they may not have intended for things to have gone as far as they did.

In the case of these two girls, I sympathize. They obviously were bamboozled and got themselves into a situation they didn't expect (they should have expected it, but I seriously doubt recruiters told them the truth of what they were in for). I would bring them home, but not set them free. They should be incarcerated and given therapy. At their young ages there is a chance for them. Right now Canada (and likely many other countries) is home to former child soldiers who changed. And yes I understand that we think of child soldiers as kids who were forced into fighting. I think it is a fair comparison here, because once they got to Syria or Iraq, they were very likely forced. I doubt they willingly allowed themselves to be used as pieces of meat.

a reply to: InvisibleOwl



She looked like she was ready to kill some of our people. They were thrilled to be famous ISIS poster girls. It wasnt until they were handed the less glamorous life of baby making factories and house servants that they decided that it wasnt what they expected. They were lured with the hope of finding "righteous truth" by engaging in armed conflict. ISIS isnt exactly at peace. They knew that. Had they been handed an AK and been treated like one of the boys they would have loved to be the poster girls for ISIS.

Then there is people like this one

Conley, a Muslim convert, was arrested April 8 at Denver International Airport after telling FBI agents she was traveling to Syria to use her American military training from the U.S. Army Explorers to aid Islamic militants waging jihad — or holy war — even though she knew that it was illegal, according to federal court records.

Her attorney claims, “Like all of us, Halima has been horrified to learn of the slaughter and oppression at the hands of the people controlling ISIS. It was never her vision to have any role in any of that.”.....

Sure. Sure. She thought ISIS was a band or something that rocked some kick ass music concerts.

Once she was arrested she was sorry. These girls, once they are given the real deal they are "horrified". Hand them a weapon and point it at us and they are fine with it. They knew what it was and what they might have to do. Then when they arent the kick ass freedom fighter they day dreamed of being they are suddenly sorry.

No. Just no.

a reply to: tadaman

From my experience it's the Western 'converts' who can hold the most radical and extreme views.

A lot of them are getting killed in Syria for having such convictions.

originally posted by: boncho

In any case, the girls want to return home but face imprisonment from their government. While I can see the need to ban support of IS, and see why Austria wishes to prosecute such cases, in a case such as this, isn't this where you show you are more civilized than the likes of IS?

No.

Such "civilization" sews and waters the seeds of it's own destruction.

I do not, as a rule, hug scorpions, either.

Any 15-17 year old could be convinced of a lot of BS, they could be persuaded in doing things nothing like they imagined. I think prosecuting them is kind of like prosecuting a kid tricked into doing something foolish. Who's the enemy? The likes of which would prey on teenagers at a mosque, to send them off to be whores in a holy war, or the young girls that got in over their heads?

If, by that age, they are so weak in the heads that they can be convinced to do anything, I don't want them back in my town to do the "anything" they have been convinced to do.

They should find who it was that solicited them to make the journey and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. In my opinion.

Agreed, so long as that prosecution involves execution.

Whoring in the name of Mohammed, or jihad al-nikah, is something that was previously noted by intelligence officials in the civil war zone in Syria and in Egypt during the Muslim Brotherhood-caused turmoil there.

Wow.

I have never head that phrase, ever before... and that's saying something. The Arabic I learned had the term "nikyah" with a "y" in the middle, but I know what "jihad al-nikah" means. I've just never heard it constructed that way before, conflating "nikyah" with "jihad". Must be a new Brotherhood invention.

That's messed up. SERIOUSLY messed up!

originally posted by: stirling
Bomb them to death with all the dirty filthy scum who dare behead a westerners ass

How does one behead an ass?

That's some messed up anatomical structuring!

originally posted by: nrd101
OH man. So basically these are young girls here. They have had 1 or 2 lovers at most, and now they are in Syria with ISIS fighters ? Pregnant ?

If I was Austria I would take them back in a heartbeat.

This thread has made me really mad. Most of you are sending them to their deaths basically, pregnant and all.

When did we start killing pregnant women/children who are pregnant.

If this was a test by God you are all #ed.

I'm not sending them anywhere - they went there under their own steam, not mine. I didn't send them.

Maybe you didn't read the OP closely enough - WE aren't the ones who are #ed.

That's kinda the point.

originally posted by: boncho

To me this is exactly the kind of thinking that strengthens the extremists position. If people are so callous to condemn a child after making a bad decision (mind you their choice was abhorrent), one that didn't include them fighting or murdering or any violence, we are no better than some jihadist that wants to beat or stone a woman for cheating.

We are not stoning them - we allowed them the freedom to stone themselves.

And that is just what they chose to do.

Not the same thing.

When I saw you empower the jihadists, you do, because they are over there wanting to come back, and the jihadi's say "See, look at them, they turn their back on you, they hate you because you love Allah...bla bla". Which only broadens the grip the jihadis have, and only gives them less to hold on to. If you thought they were dangerous as sex puppets, wait until they feel they have absolutely nothing to go back to and carry all the hate (which is fear in disguise), then you breed a more dangerous, disillusioned lost soul.

LOL! No, they aren't "dangerous" as sex puppets! What a silly notion! Had they not been "disillusioned, lost souls" to begin with, they wouldn't have gone to do the "jihad al-nikah" (can't get over that phrase - it means "jihad (of) the #ing", same general category as the temple prostitution prevalent in the ancient world) to begin with.

Foreign policy has aided and abetted jihadis more than anything, internal policy shouldn't strengthen that blowback any more than it has to. Compassion and forgiveness is akin to wisdom, as throwing stones because you were hit by one just leaves everyone blind.

And hugging vipers to the bosom just leads to getting bitten.

Conflicted about this, and might need my flame proof suit.

Have seen people in my life who were horribly abused as children. Not all of them turned out good. A lot of them didn't 'make it' and some of them are not nice to be around. Some of the ones that did though are amazing people with no crutches - absolute beacons of independent living and amazingness.

It's easy to say that people need to be taught a lesson, or they brought it on themselves. It's much harder to admit you haven't walked in those shoes, you don't know who or what lead them there, and sometimes you can fix what's broken. That doesn't mean 12 step program scratching behind the ears or not being real. You can be real to a person, not put up with them acting out, and be helpful all at the same time.

I'm not going to say it's morally wrong to help these people, but what I will say is that forgiveness is an amazing thing. If you've ever had someone give you that opportunity it can turn your life around completely. Maybe individualism is part of why these young people managed to leave their country in the first place? I don't know.

Is also just part of me that feels if these people legitimately learned something, came home and spoke about it - it would speak volumes when compared to the coerced messages from British reporters on death row. Hearts and minds and all that.

originally posted by: boncho

The Syrian conflict was very confusing in the early stages and most had no idea what was going on there.

Baloney.

"Most" knew everything they needed to know about the Syrian Civil War - it was an internal conflict in which external people had no business meddling. It was not our war to meddle in. The US (apparently, but maybe not) learned their lesson there, and so have these girls. In both cases, there is fallout to be dealt with - no one gets off scott free.

originally posted by: Pinke

It's easy to say that people need to be taught a lesson, or they brought it on themselves. It's much harder to admit you haven't walked in those shoes, you don't know who or what lead them there, and sometimes you can fix what's broken. That doesn't mean 12 step program scratching behind the ears or not being real. You can be real to a person, not put up with them acting out, and be helpful all at the same time.

No, I don't think they "need to be taught a lesson" - that ship has already sailed, and they're going to learn one, no "need" involved. It's too late for them to learn the lessons they ought to have learned - they're in the grease now.

I have "walked in those shoes". I left home at 17 to go fight in other folks' wars. It's a harsh world. I learned that, and they will, too. It's not a matter of "revenge", "retribution", "morality", "punishment" or any of that tripe. it's just a fact - actions have consequences. I lived with mine, and still do live with them, and they will, too.

Is also just part of me that feels if these people legitimately learned something, came home and spoke about it - it would speak volumes when compared to the coerced messages from British reporters on death row. Hearts and minds and all that.

There may be something to be said for the "hearts and minds" BS, but personally I think burnt bridges are a lot more effective.

I wouldn't want them back in my neighborhood (simply because I've seen that beast "over there", and have no urge to see it "here"), but I'm, not Austrian.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Nimes

Are you saying that somehow two supposedly pregnant females are a threat to there whole way of life, and are somehow going to undermining there whole social structure

If that was the case i wouldn't say anything (only 2 girls).

This is not an isolated case.. @tadaman post about Colorado girl..just one example

Take a 1000 people like that and let them come back home. Imagine if all of them influence at least one more to their cause (friends...family)! Don't think it's impossible..they were influenced also by someone.

You know what you have then?

2000 possible threats

How many people did it take to achieve that bombing in London tube 2005? 1000 terrorists? 2000 terrorists?

4 bombers = 52 people killed ~700 injured ( dont think those bombers came straight from some country in the Middle East with no clue of the language and the city...they grew up there..)

So let's say this is an isolated case and that only 2 persons went there and back.

2 bombers = possible 26 people killed 350 injured.

This is all just an example of course...but i wouldn't play with those numbers especially if someone close to people there is roaming in the streets minding their own business..not doing any harm to anyone.

I may be completely wrong! I am not saying that the girls should be harmed by the Austrian goverment or anyone..

But i wouldn't play with something like this and say "Oh they made a mistake let them be".

This is not some stupid childish situation where the girls got drunk or something..

a reply to: Nimes
Oh ya bro! I am like totally shaking in my boots because some possible converts may fly home to coop. Plenty of nutters I walk by every dam day on the streets, in fact last week I heard a story of a guy who went with a chainsaw in a hunted house and killed a few people for the funk of it, chainsawed them I believe....But no hey! Don't let me ruin your whole outlook on this epic and mighty boogieman...But yes camel jockeys and goat headers, there like totally scary..And wow thanks to the US and Russian and all the various other groups who have been arming and sponsoring these groups since well since over 70 years ago, well they even have outdated weapons now...Truly you are the very pinnacle of brilliance to have seen this foreshadow of the possible downfall of all western culture.

What you said...OH my gosh now I am like totally scared and stuff.

There could like be a whole army of suicide chicks ready to blow us all up..Oh noz.

But on a more serious note. And if you did not guess, the above was sarcasm.

But yes on a more serious note. Ah seems that this is just more issues with females and there boyfriends and lovers and well, they traveled a continent away to get involved with it all, but it may take a bit more effort then that to get untangled from it all...Now I think they may regret that they cant surf Facebook without there husbands permission, but hey they got to look on the bright side. At least they get some cool ninja attire to wear all day...Oh ya! Its like the debacle of the century. Totally! Not being sarcastic! No for real!