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Independent Researchers Test Rossi's Alleged Cold Fusion Device For 32 Days

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posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 03:15 PM
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The E-Cat (or "Energy Catalyzer") is an alleged cold fusion device that produces heat from a low-energy nuclear reaction where nickel and hydrogen fuse into copper. Previous reports have tended to suggest the technology is a hoax, and the inventor Andrea Rossi's reluctance to share details of the device haven't helped the situation. ExtremeTech now reports that "six (reputable) researchers from Italy and Sweden" have "observed a small E-Cat over 32 days, where it produced net energy of 1.5 megawatt-hours, "far more than can be obtained from any known chemical sources in the small reactor volume."... "

Independent Researchers Test Rossi's Alleged Cold Fusion Device For 32 Days

It seems that this apparatus remains in a continuous state of "semi-HOAX;" in my opinion, it is because the attendant scientist are perpetually pouting about not being able to explain "how" this thing does what it does.

After a long period of sustained observation, the fact remains that energy measured from the device in operation is far and away larger than can be accounted for without some reaction "like" fusion.... but they will not call it fusion.

Of course there will arise the wave of skeptics who will simply reject the conundrum out of hand by declaring the principle players as untrustworthy. Never the less I think it is an interesting observation:


The researchers are very careful about not actually saying that cold fusion/LENR is the source of the E-Cat’s energy, instead merely saying that an “unknown reaction” is at work. In serious scientific circles, LENR is still a bit of a joke/taboo topic. The paper is actually somewhat comical in this regard: The researchers really try to work out how the E-Cat produces so much darn energy — and they conclude that fusion is the only answer — but then they reel it all back in by adding: “The reaction speculation above should only be considered as an example of reasoning and not a serious conjecture.”


I am taking a chance at submitting this as a breaking news story since the report by these scientists from around the world has been long-anticipated by those who are disinclined to simply say "too good to be true" and move on to heckling other targets - without a serious effort to understand the claim. Assuming you, dear reader, may want to hear more than "It's all a hoax!"

We've been "disappointed" before by the perennial 'there is no progress without massive funding' family of detractors.

I think the long and the short of it is that the E-Cat may be the harbinger of a serious revenue problem for those monsters who control global energy.

Report PDF here.


edit on 13-10-2014 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 03:17 PM
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I read that last night, it is a good start!

Unfortunately since he is having trouble patenting the device he does not let anyone examine the mechanics of how it works so it remains an interesting 'black box'.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 03:32 PM
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a reply to: Elton

Sadly, we have developed an environment in today's world where the easiest way to get control of such technology is to apply behaviors that center on stealing it. The slightest whisper of his process will lead (I believe) to the fabrication of a prior claim...

Yes, I am one of those perennial cynics who attribute the most retched and debased conduct of those who get away with hoarding power and money.

If he releases any info it will have to be after the accepted confirmation of the device's specifications, because the only known is that no one has actually articulated before that they could produce this mystery 'nuclear reaction'... it is his only trump card.

It is clear that there is something noteworthy developed here, it is also clear that academia has it's marching orders on ridiculing it... sort of like Tesla's notion that energy should be available to all without all the profiteering.
edit on 14-10-2014 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: Maxmars

I agree, seems like the patent system is used to reduce competition (opposite of its stated goals to support and protect innovation). The E-Cat won't get sufficient investors as a black box (or a trade secret) and they won't grant patents for over unity devices (without a thorough understanding and explanation of it's workings).


Catch-22, that's some catch..




edit on 13-10-2014 by Elton because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: Maxmars

If this is not a hoax and it sounds as if it is not then I have no doubt it will join the thousand's of other devices the oil mafia are sitting on and be suppressed or conveniently forgotten only to be brought out of there archives when someone step's on the patent so that they can stop them through legal mean's.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 03:46 PM
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I got into making a thread that was about 3 pages long, eventually I just scrapped it. Rossi and the eCat just give me a headache, and I figured it was something not even worth the discussion, but I guess he's getting the press he'd hoped for.

Suffice to say the test was not independent, it did not meet the specifications that are appropriate to deem it an independent test. Simple as that.

I'll give you some of Krivit's op ed on Rossi, since he has been one of the few dissenting points of view to cover the debacle.


His collaborators said that they performed an independent test, despite the fact that Rossi’s hands were all over the device. It’s been a while since New Energy Times has written anything on this topic, so this latest claim offers an opportunity to review the broader situation for newer readers.

Most of the authors of this latest document have been collaborating with Rossi for several years. With one exception, the authors are the same as those in a 2013 document that New Energy Times discussed in our news articles “Rossi Manipulates Academics to Create Illusion of Independent Test***” and “Scientific Ethics of E-Cat Promoters Questioned***.”

New Energy Times covered Rossi’s claims extensively in 2011 and, after several months of investigation, visiting the empty garage that Rossi called his laboratory and interviewing him and his key collaborators, determined that his claim lacked scientific credibility.


news.newenergytimes.net...



It's really easy to forget the origins of the eCat and the promotion behind it. Which is what Rossi wanted all along. For people new to the topic or the rest of us who have just sat by and tired by convoluted attempts to rewrite history.

For those who have forgotten Rossi came onto the scene looking for credibility and he's received it unduly now, as the many people who questioned his attempts have simply been bored by the subject.

What some have forgotten is:

1. He made a so called "scientific journal", that was a blog, he claimed that it was peer reviewed, it even had a dead reviewer on its board.
2. He never had a real engineering degree it was from a diploma mill.
3. He claimed he would never ask for money for the eCat but did so from industrial private investment shortly after making that statement.
4. He has never let any independent verification of his system happen. He has claimed as much a number of times, it has never been validated, tested or anything of the like by an independent/unbiased body of scientific/engineering examiners.
5. etc, etc, etc.

That's just really the basics, I know that some people see it as ad hominem, but you give too much credit by someone who has been caught defrauding people in the past, including the US DOE, selling a thermocoupler device that didn't work, selling a process supposedly able to convert household and industrial waste into usable oil, which none of that happened but left millions of dollars in hazardous clean up for a state in Italy to clean up.

A convicted fraudster out on a new run, and suddenly everyone allows him to take massive liberties to hide everything he is doing, "hey its ok", why? If he was entirely transparent that would be another story but he has lied from day one and continues to lie, and for some reason everyone give him a pass and believes him. IF he at least at bare minimum stuck by his word for the eCat from day 1, you at least have that to argue in his favour, but no, continuous lies. Why?
edit on 13-10-2014 by boncho because: (no reason given)



On May 16, Hanno Essén, a theoretical physicist and lecturer at the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology, submitted a paper to arXiv, the physics pre-print server, and claimed that he and several co-authors performed an independent test of an E-Cat device that was built by Andrea Rossi. Essén submitted a revised version of the paper on May 20.

The authors of the paper did not perform an independent test; instead, they were participants in another Rossi demonstration and performed measurements on one of Rossi’s devices in his facility
.

edit on 13-10-2014 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: Maxmars

So it gives off more energy than it takes, which already seems to be breaking the law on energy.

I guess my thought would be who cares if its not cold fusion. Its apparently something that gives off more power than what is takes in.

A technological advance is just that. It seems scientists are ignoring a potentially life changing energy source simply because they have cold fusion stuck on the brain.

Of course, this is all assuming it works and is not some hoax.

With the way the world has been going lately, I am going to try to be optimistic in the science realm. Especially if its something that could resolve the energy crisis for the planet.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 04:06 PM
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a reply to: boncho

I have to concur that early 'corroborative' research appeared to be some ham-handed attempt to enter "the market." However the objection cited are all from efforts (either staged or not) made public back in 2009.

This new report is from last year, and submitted by Giuseppe Levi at Bologna University, Bologna, Italy; Evelyn Foschi
Bologna, Italy; Bo Höistad, Roland Pettersson and Lars Tegnér Uppsala University, Uppsala, Sweden; and Hanno Essén
Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden.

I grant you that they may not be the premiere scientists we would hope for ... you know, like the media sanctioned Bill Nye, and Michio Kaku... but it is along cry from the early questionable efforts Krivitt decried years ago.

To be honest, I can really understand why the reticence to share the inner design of the device... considering it costs proportionally nothing to claim that the device 'impinges' on existing patents... and is the chief methodology of Big Energy - who stand so much to lose should it be discovered that a few thousand dollars investment could free you from the ransom they hold us under for a few kilowatts.

But it would be naive to think that there is a possibility that he did impinge on existing "proprietary" technology to achieve his ends... and that could very well be another reason to 'hide' the working of the device.


edit on 13-10-2014 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 04:16 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Maxmars

So it gives off more energy than it takes, which already seems to be breaking the law on energy.

I guess my thought would be who cares if its not cold fusion....


Well the marketeers for one, care. "Cold Fusion" has been forever promoted as the impossible dream (it used to be the 100 MPG carburetor) ... mostly by those who stand to gain from the continued use of fossil and fission energy. Sort of along the same lines as the outrageous lie that solar energy is too costly to produce...
edit on 13-10-2014 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 04:20 PM
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I've always been under the impression that this device was considered a bad hoax, but after I read your links...I'm pretty optimistic that this may have some legs to it.

Here is a link to a Forbes piece that discusses the credentials of the team and comes to the conclusion that these men would have more to lose than gain if they attached their names to an elaborate hoax.

Forbes

Please keep us up to date if you find anything new on this, Max!

Thanks!

ETA: In your opinion, what would be the best way to get this tech out to the public without falling prey to those that may want to suppress it?
edit on 10/13/2014 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 04:22 PM
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originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Maxmars

If this is not a hoax and it sounds as if it is not then I have no doubt it will join the thousand's of other devices the oil mafia are sitting on and be suppressed or conveniently forgotten only to be brought out of there archives when someone step's on the patent so that they can stop them through legal mean's.


It's hard to complain about the 'secretly held' "proprietary" technological advances that are protected with more force of law than nati0onal secrets. Our worship of "Free enterprise" has created the perfect hiding place for things we need being held back because it might shock 'consumer confidence' and many royal and faux-royal families and groups would have to live off the meager trillions they have already hoard.

It could still be a hoax.... or this guy could be just wrong... but I can guarantee that if we don't ask questions and consider the evidence we will never know...



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 04:29 PM
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a reply to: Maxmars


This new report is from last year, and submitted by Giuseppe Levi at Bologna University, Bologna, Italy; Evelyn Foschi
Bologna, Italy; Bo Höistad, Roland Pettersson and Lars Tegnér Uppsala University, Uppsala, Sweden; and Hanno Essén
Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden.


It's absolutely no different from the very first reports. These are the exact same actors that were involved from Rossi from day 1. The most telling thing is the fact he has no new faces on board.

Essen was one of the first people he posted a video of "confirming" his device.

Kullander was the other face, he's dead. Focardi was the other face. He's dead. Anyone holding any position involved in the eCat, was a few days or years from retirement. The others were on death's door. Nothing odd about their passings either, maybe the only reason they were involved is they were bordering on senility or they wanted to leave some money to their loved ones.




I grant you that they may not be the premiere scientists we would hope for ... you know, like the media sanctioned Bill Nye, and Michio Kaku... but it is along cry from the early questionable efforts Krivitt decried years ago.


That's absolute BS, Rossi had the opportunity to have his device run by NASA engineers way back in 2010, but he wouldn't submit his device for full review.




To be honest, I can really understand why the reticence to share the inner design of the device... considering it costs proportionally nothing to claim that the device 'impinges' on existing patents... and is the chief methodology of Big Energy - who stand so much to lose should it be discovered that a few thousand dollars investment could free you from the ransom they hold us under for a few kilowatts.



Rossi has never powered anything by his device, no energy made, just heat. There's nothing for "big energy" to worry about.




But it would be naive to think that there is a possibility that he did impinge on existing "proprietary" technology to achieve his ends... and that could very well be another reason to 'hide' the working of the device.


Patents by who? I think that would have come to light if it were true.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 04:31 PM
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a reply to: sheepslayer247

Thanks fro that link!

I don't want to imply that this is the real deal... I just hope that we recognize and accept that the process of "declare hoax" - "walk away" could damn us into an oblivion of ignorance.

People who are knowledgeable and - dare I say it - worthy of listening to - are looking into this with serious diligence...

If it is a fail, then so be it. If it is a pathway to freedom from economic oppression for billions on the planet, I sure as hell don't want live in a world where the ivory-tower academics are allowed to poo-poo an idea and silence all inquiry... simply because they feel the person who presents it is not in the club of academic elites.
edit on 13-10-2014 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 04:47 PM
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originally posted by: boncho
a reply to: Maxmars

It's absolutely no different from the very first reports. These are the exact same actors that were involved from Rossi from day 1. The most telling thing is the fact he has no new faces on board.


Hell, that's a serious point! I did not know this report was a carbon copy of the first. I did not know that the early demonstrations provided data about 32 days of operation - I thought the early tests were only a couple of hundred hours and that this was the major detraction from the potential of the claimed device. I would presume that this new information is not new at all then... they simply extended their bogus observations to make a more compelling report... of course that would presume that the early complaints were all justified and that these people are all involved in a massive conspiracy... hmmm... perhaps you have something there...


That's absolute BS, Rossi had the opportunity to have his device run by NASA engineers way back in 2010, but he wouldn't submit his device for full review.


Caution there, I respect you and your opinions deeply.... opting to call what I wrote as BS - as opposed to simply disagreeing and claiming I am mistaken seem obtusely provocative.

In the NASA case they insisted on disclosure to which Rossi objected... NASA refused to restrict its request to observe operational performance, and demanded full access to the devices inner workings... you may call it BS but many independent inventors purport this to be EXACTLY how many patents are STOLEN. I don't enjoy believing that this is how people lose their inventions; but I am far from naive enough to think one should not worry about that kind of loss of control over one's creations.


Rossi has never powered anything by his device, no energy made, just heat. There's nothing for "big energy" to worry about.


I would worry. Heat is the most malleable of energies... boiling water is the proof... I would be happy to learn they are unconcerned... that kind of detachment is the opportunity people need to stop this endless conflict over resource distribution.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 04:48 PM
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a reply to: boncho

From what I have been reading, some of the scientists involved in this most recent test has been involved previously. For all we know, this could be a hoax and these men are lying.

But I have to ask....why? Why would they lie and make up a dodgy "report" on this devise?

Also, what would Rossi have to gain if it's a hoax? What is his motivation here?



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 04:50 PM
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originally posted by: boncho
a reply to: Maxmars


This new report is from last year, and submitted by Giuseppe Levi at Bologna University, Bologna, Italy; Evelyn Foschi
Bologna, Italy; Bo Höistad, Roland Pettersson and Lars Tegnér Uppsala University, Uppsala, Sweden; and Hanno Essén
Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden.


It's absolutely no different from the very first reports. These are the exact same actors that were involved from Rossi from day 1. The most telling thing is the fact he has no new faces on board.

here's the pdf of the actual testing - they say that they are the same "actors" who previously tested the device (and by "actors" they and I mean nothing more than teh people performing this action!!)

However the document also notes that Rossi is present at some stages of the testing........so IMO this is NOT a truly independent test.

That said however, the testing regime seems reasonable - I am quite frustrated by eth inability (or unwillingness??) of Rossi to have this thing properly analysed and tested, and fraud remains my mostly likely explanation.
edit on 13-10-2014 by Aloysius the Gaul because: quote tag



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: Maxmars

I've been following the ecat periodically for the past couple years, I even signed up for the newsletter which quit coming after six months. Signed up for two home units as well. Never got them lol.

I hope it's legit, cause that could change everything. I'd be so far off the grid I wouldn't be able to see it with a celestron.

And I think bill nye would be an excellent guy for Rossi to demonstrate for, I wouldn't think nye would steal it and would be an excellent way to get the word out.

Somehow though it probably wouldn't happen.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 05:14 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra



So it gives off more energy than it takes, which already seems to be breaking the law on energy.


That would not necessarily be breaking the law of energy..whatever that is. For example a nuclear bomb gives out more energy that i took to start the reaction.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 05:45 PM
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a reply to: sheepslayer247


Also, what would Rossi have to gain if it's a hoax? What is his motivation here?


He originally teamed up with the greeks at Defkalion, they then split and Defkalion claimed to have their own technology which they would license and sell. The original plan with Rossi was to sell dealerships, so people would pay him for a license to sell eCats. At 1 million a pop, that scheme could have netted him hundreds of millions.

That wasn't popular enough or it didn't work, so he went back on his word and claimed that he had an American company buying up his eCats. All the while soliciting additional investment from industrialists claiming he can run their factories, while he's never showed anything more than being able to produce heat, Im not sure how it makes any sense even by his more optimistic explanations.

In any case, he's changed his story more than a dozen times, changed his attempt to monetize it, never mind the fact that originally he said he would seek no money for it.

He claims any dissenting opinion is from the "clowns" and "puppet masters", whatever that means. The names associated with the eCat have been the same from day 1 anyway.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: Maxmars


of course that would presume that the early complaints were all justified and that these people are all involved in a massive conspiracy... hmmm... perhaps you have something there...



Its not a massive conspiracy, its self delusion. Was the first time Rossi ripped off the US government a massive conspiracy in the DOE? No, it was him either being entirely fraudulent or completely self delusional, the people he wrote checks to the same.

People get hyped up on the idea of cheaper, better energy production, and it only takes one con man with some tricky words and actions to make another dozen normally sensible lose all sorts of rational judgement, getting self deluded on the idea of something new and innovative. Look at how many green energy projects have not worked out for the government initiatives.

Millions, hundreds of millions of investment. The common theme is people are so anxious to do something new and revolutionary they ignore all the caveats along the way.

You don't need a massive conspiracy, you need one sly conman and a bunch of hopefuls to wish and want to believe its all real.



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