It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Catholic Church Shifts on Gay People They Have 'Gifts and Qualities to Offer'

page: 1
4
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 12:27 PM
link   

The Catholic church could be moving to accept gay members and even acknowledge positive aspects of same-sex partnerships following a bishops’ meeting.

A document released by the Vatican on Monday said “homosexuals have gifts and qualities to offer to the Christian community” and asked how that could be balanced with doctrine.

Roman Catholic gay rights groups around the world hailed the paper as a breakthrough, but conservatives called it a betrayal of traditional family values.

Known as the “relatio post disceptationem”, the document detailed discussions by 200 senior bishops on the Church’s treatment of LGBT people.

It did not signal a change in the Church’s condemnation of gay sex or marriage but used more balanced language than seen under Pope Francis’ predecessors.

While Pope Benedict was serving as head of the Vatican’s doctrinal department, he called gay people “intrinsically disordered” and there has since been an apparent effort by the Church to tone down condemnatory language.

Pope Francis has previously said the Church must be more compassionate towards the LGBT community, saying last year: “If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge?”
Link to The Independent

I am not GLBT or Catholic but I always thought they were highly against this sort of thing. Does this mark a future change in the churches doctrine towards acceptance or simply just tolerance of it?
Can this be just another media maneuver to take attention away from the negatives that have been brought to light recently with pedophilia and sexual abuse by its members?
Do/Would any of the Catholic members here feel offended by this introduction into their lives?

Personally I have nothing to gain by this for or against, but it is relevant to me to see how the rest of you feel. Does this mean soon marriages will be allowed and condoned by the clergy, I'm wondering where this is all headed now. . .
edit on 10/13/2014 by AnteBellum because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 12:41 PM
link   
It's about d*** time. I am in the LGBT community, and I'm kinda tired of the whole "God dun like teh gays and lesbians" attitude. This, if it happens, might give me cause to convert to Catholicism lol.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 12:52 PM
link   
a reply to: AnteBellum

The church is realizing that a lot of LGBT are also religious. They would love to be part of the church, and they were excluded.

Since LGBT have become more accepted, more people who are not LGBT are LEAVING the church because of their stance towards those people, as well as things like marriage or abortion for example.

The world is becoming more socially liberal, and the church has to change to meet that demand if they want to keep their coffers full.

They are loosing membership and money by continuing on their policy of ignoring the world as it moves forward, and disowning those who seek out their guidance and spiritual fulfillment.

Good on them.

~Tenth



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 12:55 PM
link   
The Pope is just living and thinking in the way Jesus would. It's the modern day Christian (and I mean Catholic, too) who has turned away from Jesus' teachings by persecuting gay people and trying to deny them their legal rights. The Pope seems to be old school Christian - "Real Christian" if you will. You know, non-judgmental and brotherly love.

This new hateful, judgmental "Christians" are the ones who are causing all the ruckus.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 01:09 PM
link   
the church is continually giving ground in acknowledgment of a culture that no longer condones discrimination and faith-based righteous-and-wicked politics like it used to. keeping up with the times to stave off obsoletion, in other words.
edit on 13-10-2014 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 01:11 PM
link   
New Pope is best Pope.
I really think that he genuinely follows what he thinks Jesus would.

I personally think that if there is ever a Rapture, a lot of Christians will be in for a rude awakening. You can't ride on the coattails of religion and expect to be saved. You have to live the way that Jesus did. You can memorize the verses and recite them word for word at the pearly gates, but what does that do if you don't live them?

I think the world would be a much better place if every Christian and Catholic followed the teachings the same as the Pope does. We would be much more united. I love that it seems like he is really trying to unite the people and stop conflict everywhere.
edit on 13-10-2014 by Lyxdeslic because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 01:14 PM
link   
This isn't a change of doctrine .. it's a course correction.
Pope Francis favored civil unions while Cardinal in South America.
He says 'who am I to judge'??



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 01:44 PM
link   
Churches are just businesses with awesome tax breaks. They reasons to market pressure too. They know it's over so they want goodwill by seeming to make the decision themselves. Very similar to Republicans after the recent supreme Court decision. Its better to surrender as soon as you are clearly going to lose than to wait until you are ground to dust. Better for avoiding further damage and for PR.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 01:56 PM
link   
This Synod is really ticking me off, because of the misrepresentations of what is going on, from both the media and from Church Traditionalists.

The Catholic Church has not "shifted" anything. This Synod isn't even intended to do anything other than raise the issues that the NEXT Synod needs to address. That will happen in October 2015.

Here is the relevant bit from today's missive:


50. Homosexuals have gifts and qualities to offer to the Christian community: are we capable of welcoming these people, guaranteeing to them a fraternal space in our communities? Often they wish to encounter a Church that offers them a welcoming home. Are our communities capable of providing that, accepting and valuing their sexual orientation, without compromising Catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony? (Source)

Now, does that represent any sort of policy change? Absolutely not! It's asking a question, one which will be answered at next year's Synod. And note that it doesn't say "should the church change its teaching to reflect secular values", it says "can we be more loving and welcoming of those who experience same-sex attraction within existing Church teaching." That's the challenge.

I am so disappointed in some of my Traditionalist friends (those who believe that Vatican II should be rolled back,) who are fearmongering and intentionally misrepresenting (read: lying about) what this statement from the Vatican says. But it's no more dishonest than the mainstream media, who seem to think that a rhetorical question, which they obviously didn't bother to read, constitutes some sort of "doctrinal shift."


edit on 13-10-2014 by adjensen because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 02:12 PM
link   
Love the sinner; hate the sin.

Marriage is still between a man and a woman.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 02:20 PM
link   
a reply to: ketsuko


Between a Christian man and a woman, right?? Since this whole debate hinges on Christian concepts of marriage, this must mean new legislation regarding Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, atheist, pagan, etc marriage. Because in certain other belief systems, this isn't even an issue.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 02:20 PM
link   

originally posted by: ketsuko
Love the sinner; hate the sin.

Marriage is still between a man and a woman.



Why though? Why is that? They love the same way any happily married couple does. A lot of gay couples stay together much longer than couples that are between opposite genders. They adopt children and give them the same amount of love that a 'straight' couple would give their own child.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 02:21 PM
link   
a reply to: ketsuko

Why's that? Because you said so? Because the Pope said so? Because the bible said so?

We dropped a ton of traditions from religion. Why is marriage so sacred? Do you also believe adulterers should be stoned? Do you believe that you should kill your own children or friends or relatives if they become non believers? Do you believe slavery is perfectly reasonable? Those are also biblical traditions. If you don't believe me I'd be happy to pull up the verses from the bible. I hate having to teach people about their own religion but if you won't look into it yourself I guess I'll do it for you.
edit on 13-10-2014 by tavi45 because: auto correct mistake



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 02:28 PM
link   

originally posted by: Kesallen
It's about d*** time. I am in the LGBT community, and I'm kinda tired of the whole "God dun like teh gays and lesbians" attitude. This, if it happens, might give me cause to convert to Catholicism lol.


You'd probably dig the Episcopalians. They have all the cool things Catholics have but they also have women priests (I don't know if they are still called "father") and gay folks, to boot.

I think it's what Catholicism will eventually look like.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 02:34 PM
link   
a reply to: Cuervo
Wow..knew about the female priests, but not the other stuff, although it makes much sense. Thanks for the info, will check 'em out.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 02:45 PM
link   
a reply to: Cuervo


I think it's what Catholicism will eventually look like.

I certainly hope not…

Why is the Episcopal Church near collapse?

Whole congregations are abandoning the Episcopal Church for the Catholic Church because of its hyper-liberalism and the outright heresy of their presiding bishops (which goes far beyond LGBT or women priest issues.)


edit on 13-10-2014 by adjensen because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 04:34 PM
link   

originally posted by: adjensen
a reply to: Cuervo


I think it's what Catholicism will eventually look like.

I certainly hope not…

Why is the Episcopal Church near collapse?

Whole congregations are abandoning the Episcopal Church for the Catholic Church because of its hyper-liberalism and the outright heresy of their presiding bishops (which goes far beyond LGBT or women priest issues.)



Think about the long-term here, though. A few centuries ago, the RCC would have said the same thing about the modern RCC. It's about adaptation. Episcopalians and Catholics are just two entities on the same sliding scale, heading the same direction. In a few years from now, the Catholic church will inevitably be more liberal than it is now and will still be condemning Episcopalians for their even more liberal views.

Besides, it's your fault I even know anything at all about the Episcopalians.


You've made several positive cases for the Catholic church and it caused me to explore it a bit alongside the Episcopalian church. There are some very cool things to say about both denominations.
edit on 13-10-2014 by Cuervo because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 06:34 PM
link   
a reply to: Cuervo


You've made several positive cases for the Catholic church and it caused me to explore it a bit alongside the Episcopalian church. There are some very cool things to say about both denominations.

I would differentiate between the Anglican Church, which I mostly agree with, and the Episcopalian Church, which I mostly disagree with. On paper, the Episcopalians are the US branch of the Church of England, in actuality, I would hesitate to say that they are even a Christian church any longer, at least as far as their leadership goes.

If there was a "real" Anglican Church in the US, I would have given it serious consideration when I was contemplating my conversion out of Methodism in 2012.

I'm glad that you've found something of value and/or interest in the Catholic and Anglican churches!



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 06:49 PM
link   

originally posted by: ketsuko
Love the sinner; hate the sin.

Marriage is still between a man and a woman.


Marriage is whatever we as a society make it. God didn't invent marriage licenses - man did.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 07:15 PM
link   
What is marriage supposed to mean in Gods eyes in a nutshell? This verse is for those who claim the concept of marriage doesn't exist in the Bible.


Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. - Genesis 2:24


From the very beginning, marriage was meant to be between a man and a woman united in matrimony, between a husband and his wife, not between two women, or two men, not between two wives and two husbands. I'm not surprised that Satan's Catholic church is speaking for gay marriage, since they never followed basic Biblical doctrine on anything in the first place.
edit on 13-10-2014 by BlackManINC because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
4
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join