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Western Christian stereotyping of Islam is at best, ignorant, and more likely hypocritical and bigot

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posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 12:27 PM
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originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
Given the history of religion, people, especially Christians or Jews, who only see the violence of some Muslims and then stereotype all Muslims, while ignoring the countless military excursions started by the Western and "Christian" leaders and soldiers, are clearly hypocritical and at best, ignorant.

Admittedly, the general public view of the US is severely limited on a lot of issues. A stroll around ATS topics should prove that. I don't think it's entirely fair to label them as being ignorant however, perhaps misinformed. The media has a habit of demonizing topics such as this, and not providing proper information where it's desperately needed which naturally leads to having these ideas. Most people believe what they hear, and so did every child when they were growing up. The only ignorance here is not double checking facts.


originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
Yes, there are extremist Muslims. However, the vast majority factually are not. Not one that I know personally is an extremist. They are all pretty normal. I hang out with some of them quite often.

You won't know an extremist unless they're ready to behead you. Sorry, this is a pretty weak point to present, as I doubt an extremist would be interested in being friends.


originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
Yes, there may be some problematic texts in the Koran and also some violence back in the day as well as now.

190 problematic verses to be exact, all pointing towards violence and either ignored or interpreted differently by 'moderate' Muslims. "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." I'm not sure how that can be interpreted differently or ignored.


originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
Well, a western Christian or Jew has no right to talk about that unless they also talk about Western aggression over the last 2000 years, including the Crusades and George Bush invading Iraq. Before you guys talk about the thousands of people Muslim terrorists have killed, look at the fact that Bush Jr.'s Iraq War II resulted in approximately 200,000 dead Iraqi civilians. He was a "Christian" president. Look at Vietnam, also executed by "Christian" presidents and nations. Also an illegal war. Resulted if I am correct in more than around a million dead. Look at colonialism, wherein European nations factually justified the taking of African, Asian, and American lands from indigenous populations because "Europeans are better" and because all of those peoples were savage heathens. They enslaved, tortured, or force converted hundreds of thousands or millions. How, pray tell, can you only call out the Muslims for being violent or for wanting to establish a universal caliphate when the Europeans and Catholic Church were trying to do this for hundreds of years?

I'm not sure how comparing the Crusades can be compared to George Bush; completely different circumstances and completely different time periods. Politics as we know it today cannot be applied to politics then. The various crusades carried out in those times were done for a variety of reasons, mostly to reclaim lost territory revered as being holy or in some cases to suppress the spread of Islam. Of course, it's not quite as simple as that, and it's not quite as simple as saying 'Christians did bad stuff too.' Those times were complicated, and we even saw Muslims and Christians as allies in the Fifth Crusade (Christians in alliance with the Sultanate of Rûm).

It's also not fair to call the US a 'Christian nation.' Whether the president is a Christian or not is also a moot point as he is only 1/3 of the government (and a puppet). The US hasn't been a Christian nation ever since it's masonic foundation and dedication of the Capitol to the goddess of Liberty (or the goddess of Columbia). It most certainly is not one today.


originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
AND, the Old Testament is filled with very violent and genocidal actions by the Israelites, so therefore once again if you point one finger at Islam, "four are pointing back."

Again, comparing ancient times to modern ones will lead to such conclusions. Ancient nomadic peoples dealt with such violence differently than we do today. The genocide you refer to is no doubt the slaughter of the Canaanites which you can find an interesting (albeit lengthy) explanation for here.


originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
The basic facts are over time, that "Christians" have killed and oppressed more Muslims worldwide than vice versa. The West has been occupying, attacking, couping, and manipulating the country borders of ME countries for several hundred years. Have the Muslims been doing so recently to Europe or the US? NO. The West colonized the ME and Africa, NOT the other way around. How is that for "imminent danger?"

Basic facts? More like basic conjecture, and perhaps a mix of confirmation bias. The 'West' you refer to has far more power, global interest, and general capability than the poor defenseless Muslims. Can you honestly say that if the US was a Muslim nation, with the same population, technology, and global reach as it has now that we wouldn't see some drastic changes taking place?


originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
This is why critical thinking is hard for most people. They can't look honestly at their own culture and religion because to do so would raise too many difficult questions, such as "is my religion really showing the fruits of the spirit," or "is America the best and most free country on Earth," or "how is it possible that Christian and Catholic people and nations have committed so much violence?"

I'm glad mine is. Way to lay the blame solely on Christians/Catholics when Muslims were also responsible. It takes two to tango. At least the Catholic involvement could be explained by Just War theory.


originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
Now, what might be acceptable is to call out orthodox and organized religion in both circumstances and their seeming inability to produce the "fruits of the spirit" and awareness that they purport to do, that seemingly massive atrocities have been committed by often the most fervent believers, of BOTH Christianity and Islam. That for SOME religious people, their religion produces extremism and violence, not peace and love. That there is something missing. What is not acceptable is to stereotype an entire group of people, dismiss an entire religion, nor only look at the sins of one while ignoring the past of your own.

Dismissing an entire religion seems to be just what you're doing here. Jihad is complete and total domination of the world, which cannot be compared to the violence Christians have committed. There was no global agenda, just good old fashioned war for territory (a cool song).


originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
I for one am not a follower of either, but do consider myself spiritual.
Well there you have it.




posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 12:43 PM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

You are 100% correct. I'm really sorry that just people are either defensive or ignorant and can't see past the propaganda at all. All religion (atheism is a religion too) is fundamentally divisive. It's a shame that people still can't see how nothing good has come of it. Keep up the good work though. We'll get there someday, provided we survive long enough.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

While European Christians were oppressed and dominated by the Vatican, the Islamic empire was the center for learning and tolerance. Funny you mention revisionist history...........



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 12:53 PM
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a reply to: Shiloh7

Lol today's problems were caused by yesterday's events. Maybe you should learn history. Once again the ignorance of Americans is staggering. Let's ignore that during the "dark ages" Muslims were enlightened while Europeans were barbarians. They collapsed under the Mongol sword.

Let's also ignore than most Muslims are just normal people. The largest Muslim nation on earth is actually quite peaceful and prosperous. The only broken Muslim countries are the ones the West broke. Just wiki "Sykes Picot" real quick to get an idea of Western honor and beneficence.

But hey keep pretending to know something when you know nothing. Being loud and ignorant is a virtue in America.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: Septimus

Bush's Iraq war was a crusade. You bought the propaganda but then again so did everyone else. The motivation was oil but it was still a Christian crusade. Read the link. Most people don't know this gem.

www.theguardian.com...

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all filled with death and hatred. Modern Jews and Christians just cherry pick their bible points.

To illustrate :

1)Every Christians favorite anti gay verse.

"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." -Leviticus 20:13

2) Guess we need to kill more adulterers

"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife – with the wife of his neighbor – both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death." -Leviticus 20:19

3) Slaves are cool just make sure they're foreign

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves." - Leviticus 25:19

4) It's legit to rape a slave just not cool

"If a man sleeps with a female slave who is promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed." -Leviticus 19:20

There's tons of other way worse stuff in the bible like killing your own relatives if they stray from the faith, but I focused on Leviticus since people cherry pick the anti gay quote all the time. Kinda hard to tell me that we all know some of it is archaic and we don't use that anymore when people do.

The best part is how you absolve Christianity of all guilt by attributing the actions of its people as products of secular society when extremist Muslims are for the most part extremist out of desperation because a bunch of foreigners control their societies and abuse them. The double standard is pretty fierce. When Muslims do wrong it's their religion at fault. When Christians do wrong it's got nothing to do with religion. Yet America specifically is constantly talking about how Christian it is.

Can't wait for the defensive responses. I love how in denial most Westerners are. It's really tough to take responsibility for your actions but that's part of being an adult. America's still an angsty teen though.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 02:01 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71


I also lock my front door when I go to bed. Does that make me scared to go to sleep?


The "terrors" are a fog that creeps into your mind, not goes through locked doors.


Did you know that in 2005, a group of Muslim men decided to track down a person they didn't like after talking to them on Paltalk, and then broke into his house and executed him and his family?

This happened in New Jersey. Coptic Christian slain by Muslims in New Jersey

Yes, they do track people they don't like, yes, they break into their homes and kill them, and yes, they do indeed share this information on their websites. The person above has a right to be afraid. I have been on Paltalk and know how they talk and how they threaten anyone who disagrees with them.

If no one believes me, just go to Paltalk and listen in their groups for a while. They have threatened each other when they feel the Muslim might convert. To think we should not be afraid, that is naive. Is this stereotyping? Even moderate Muslims are terrified on Paltalk.

The last conversation I heard from a Muslim on Paltalk was a man bragging about having more than one wife, but to not get into trouble with Canadian authorities, lives with only one in Ottowa. This wife was married to him when she was only 14 years-old. Would you call him radical?

Even I have had threats made to me from Muslims, I worked with Muslims and have interacted with them on many occasions. Is there a threat? Absolutely.

I want to know though, for everyone who is saying they think we don't understand Muslims, what do think about the wives of men in the KKK? Do you give them the same break?

If you personally knew a man and woman who were married and he was an active member of the KKK but she wasn't, would you think differently about her or would you say that the whole family needs to say something to the man and stop him? Think about it a little bit, how do we judge our terror groups but then we are told that all Muslims are not the same, even though they all belong to the same group?

If someone converted to Islam because of "religious" reasons, then they should be held accountable for the political reasons as well. If we judge the KKK, then let's judge Muslims for joining and belonging to the largest terror group in the world. A Christian who converts to Islam should be ashamed for aligning themselves with any group that actively promotes hatred and violence.

They need to either fix Islam and take out of it the violence and terrorism or just concede to the fact that they agree with it and then don't judge the KKK if there is to be no judgement against Muslims. This isn't a religious thing, it has been political since its inception.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 02:54 PM
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originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: Septimus

Bush's Iraq war was a crusade. You bought the propaganda but then again so did everyone else. The motivation was oil but it was still a Christian crusade. Read the link. Most people don't know this gem.

www.theguardian.com...

I bought nothing of the sort! I know, because I checked my receipts. While I wasn't aware of Bush's supposed quotation and ideology on that matter, again, I don't see how this applies to Christianity as a whole. Based on the philosophy of the OP, we should NOT blame the actions of a few for the actions of the whole. Bush does not speak for all Christianity. Besides, it's Bush. There are libraries filled with political cartoons of him playing with legos and picking his nose. He was a rare simplistic gem in our time to be certain. There were far more factors in play in that war though; as you said, oil was a major point, but there was also the dissolution of the Hussein dictatorship indicating major political play. If you're one for conspiracy, you're definitely in the right place as the global powers that be were definitely enjoying themselves. To say he was purely acting on a misguided Bible quote is also swallowing propaganda.


originally posted by: tavi45
Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all filled with death and hatred. Modern Jews and Christians just cherry pick their bible points.

It is the nature of man to want. You don't have to believe in a god to commit murder. It must be nice to take the moral high ground and not be responsible for anything.


originally posted by: tavi45
To illustrate : Bible quotes galore

I see a lot of Old Testament quotes here. There's a reason the New Testament exists you know? The Old Testament is foundational; the New Testament builds on that foundation with further revelations from God. It's a book filled with the history of the Jews and various lessons throughout which can still be applied to modern times. Although they establish the core principles of what most modern Christians believe, the New Testament further refines these and does away with much of the old archaic traditions stated in the Old (such as the consumption of pork and beard shaving).


originally posted by: tavi45
The best part is how you absolve Christianity of all guilt by attributing the actions of its people as products of secular society when extremist Muslims are for the most part extremist out of desperation because a bunch of foreigners control their societies and abuse them. The double standard is pretty fierce. When Muslims do wrong it's their religion at fault. When Christians do wrong it's got nothing to do with religion. Yet America specifically is constantly talking about how Christian it is.

I am not absolving them of all guilt, but contemplating the reasoning behind their actions. It is not fair to simply say: "Hundreds of years ago your ancestors waged unfair wars against their fellow man, and so that means anything you have to say about your religion is now wrong." There is so much more to the story than that. Logic attempts to create a bad guy and a good guy, and people sell Christians as the bad guy in those times, when they weren't the only ones waging war. Other than that however, I'm not going to attempt to roll this turd any further than it needs to be rolled. Attempting to explain every so called Christian's motivation in those times would take far more time than I'm willing to give, and I honestly can't say they were all pure motivations either.

When Muslims do wrong (according to moral absolutism), it's most likely because they were commanded to do so. Or, did we already forget about those hundred verses of violence? It's unfortunate that that stereotype exists, but it's also inescapable. Since you mentioned cherry picking, people have to cherry pick the Bible to find logical fallacies and misinterpret verses. I don't have to cherry pick to find such things in the Qur'an when there's a whole grove in front of me.

Also, on the point of Christians not doing wrong according to their religion, I have to disagree! Christians should be held responsible for any wrongdoing like any other individual. Not only should they be judged by the laws of man, but they are also in the red when they disobey their religious doctrine. Religion exists to provide a set of rules to adhere to in order to provide an individual with guidance and bring them closer to the end goal... whether that be heaven, nirvana, enlightenment, or whatever else is being promoted. It is not always the case that these rules must coincide with moral absolutism, and I feel this is perhaps where Muslims are getting a bad name.

I don't think it has anything to do with being oppressed by western powers, since the Qur'an specifically calls for domination and subjugation of all religions not believing in Allah. I'm sure being oppressed by the freedom loving fat people is a major selling point behind ISIS recruiting though. I don't know about the US claiming to be Christian... here I am, an American saying it's not.


originally posted by: tavi45
Can't wait for the defensive responses. I love how in denial most Westerners are. It's really tough to take responsibility for your actions but that's part of being an adult. America's still an angsty teen though.

The stigma associated with living in this country is tough, but I'll get through it somehow. Maybe I'll go grab a few drinks after work and preach without fear of having my Dinklage chopped off.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: tavi45

No only the Moorish empire and by the way they only got there through knowledge the filtered to them from the Sacking of constantinople and looting of knowledge from there that filtered through the Islamic world, the Zero and numeral system we use is actually of Indian origin and the decimal point and the zero were rediscovered not invented by either group, the zero and decimal point go back at least 4.5 to 6 thousand years in mesopotamia.
The cannal's of mesopotamia were built long before Islam but when they were destroyed by the mongol's they were never rebuilt and subsequently by the Muslims who had conquered and settled there, much of Iraq that was then fertile farmland irrigated by those legacys of ancient people's is now desert, the Kurd's are actually the descendant's of those who built those ancient marvel's not the Arab's.
The moor's of Iberia grew so advanced by being the most tollerant society but then they were an enclave surrounded on all side's by those who they had taken Iberia from and supplied only from the south so what choice did they have, many of the scholars and mystics to whom you allude were actually Jewish or Christian with the Alhambra mosque reputedly having been the most beautiful building in the world before it was damages to the fury of the king when he found out what the church had done since he had thought about making it a palace but decided it was too good so rightly belonged to God.
The knowledge that filtered through the islamic world only flowered to it's ultimate in Europe when it kick started the reneiscance but had it's origin on the library's of Constantinople, there were many savant's on both side's of the idiological debate though and many of the muslim and christian savant's would have been regarded as heretical to the priests and iman's of both side's.

Long before in the second century Heron of Alexandria had created steam powered coin operated doors and primitive steam engine's that only needed to be put together in order for a train to have been invented but unfortunately for the Roman's if he knew what he discovered this fore runner of da vinci hid it, he was a greek egyptian with no love of Rome and like all alexandrians he was still roth century's later over the burning of the library of alexandria during which scholars burned to death trying to save scroll's often running out aflame holding the scrolls while they burned to death themselves to save them (so did he invent it or was it ancient knowledge and what did exist in the library's of constantinople another great greek city).

Any prophet who has to change his story about a group of idol's (high flying cranes indeed) or marries a six year old child is no prophet of God but rather look the other way to see his master - inconsistant, no presence of the holy spirit - he supposedly recieved his word from Gabriel but described Gabriel as all around him, no other description of Gabriel in the Judeo Christian world describes him in this fashion but as a being that has a very certain locality when present though Gabriel merely mean's Annunciator of God so any angel of the Lord can be Gabriel though there is only one Arch angel by that title, the Name of God is hidden while he is referred to as YA or Yahway or they whom come form the sky (Elohim) while El the cannanite high God had a pantheon that continued to be worshiped to the east in Arabia after the Isrealite's displaced it's religion and there it morphed into Allah but El was the enemy of God and the false flame far more than the flame of Ahura Mazda ever was.

edit on 13-10-2014 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 04:46 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy


Did you know that in 2005, a group of Muslim men decided to track down a person they didn't like after talking to them on Paltalk, and then broke into his house and executed him and his family?

Stop right there… Murderers did that, not "Muslims". Just because hooded people discharge weapons or saw peoples heads off while shouting "Allah Akbar" doesn't make them "Muslim" or reflect upon Islam anymore than air force pilots that attend church between bombing missions reflects on true Christianity.

Thats what you should fear, the west waging aggressive war on an entire hemisphere of nations, not some gangsters in "New Jersey".



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: WarminIndy


Did you know that in 2005, a group of Muslim men decided to track down a person they didn't like after talking to them on Paltalk, and then broke into his house and executed him and his family?

Stop right there… Murderers did that, not "Muslims". Just because hooded people discharge weapons or saw peoples heads off while shouting "Allah Akbar" doesn't make them "Muslim" or reflect upon Islam anymore than air force pilots that attend church between bombing missions reflects on true Christianity.

Thats what you should fear, the west waging aggressive war on an entire hemisphere of nations, not some gangsters in "New Jersey".


Then you weren't aware of the incident.

Like I said, go to Paltalk and see just how they talk. Those were MUSLIMS not gangsters who did this in the name of Islam and Mohammed. If this were just random incidents that happened maybe once or twice, then we could say that there is no threat. But with the hundreds of incidents happening every day, we have to stop and ask ourselves what it going on.

Wasn't there another beheading just last week right here in the United States? Who did that?

And the two Austrian girls who became jihadists now want to come home. They are both now pregnant but stuck in their position because Austria has stated that once you go to fight for another country against Austria, you just can't come back like that. The west has known about Islam since Islam forced its way into Europe. We have known about Islam since the middle ages, so we aren't ignorant. And our first war since the Revolution was not against England or Canada, but the Barbary Coast War in Morocco.

I remember when I was about 10 years-old, I happened to come across a political cartoon in a magazine and really didn't understand it then. The comic was of an Arabian on a ladder fixing the price on a gas station sign as an American man was riding along on a bicycle with a look of confusion. But funny that it was in the mid 1970s and here we are dealing with the same issue in 2014.

I would like to be reminded again, just exactly who it was that took the hostages in the embassy in Iran? And who was it that passed laws against women riding in buses and taxis? And who was it that passed laws that women and girls must never be outside without full burkhas and hijabs? Was that the Christians or Jews?

When the city police let a building burn while 275 little girls are trapped inside because they weren't wearing their burkhas, then tell me how that is a misunderstanding or ignorance on our part? 275 little girls burned to death without sympathy or mercy from their Muslim police officers. And those are the people we need to just understand a little more? Where was the televised outcry from Muslim men and women in America about this? I didn't see it and neither did you, all we heard was "it's a tribal thing, leave them alone".



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 05:29 PM
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a reply to: Nechash

It's not the Sufis running around in Iraq right now beheading anything that looks at them cross-eyed, including Sunnis and Shias who aren't Islamic enough.

And I'm still waiting for the moderate Muslims the world over to denounce them instead of just turtling up and pointing at Christians telling us about all the bad things we do or did.

edit on 13-10-2014 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 06:09 PM
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a reply to: Septimus

So when you say the Iraq war wasn't Christian even though our nation is Christian and our leader is Christian (and he believed in the war based on his religion, confirmed by his publicly stated reasons being false and by labeling Muslims by biblical terms to a foreign leader in a private meeting) that's fine but when Muslims do the same they are liars. Once again nice double standard. Christians are individuals, Muslims are not. Definition of bigotry right there.

That's the usual argument for the bible. If the old testament was overwritten by the new then why not remove it from the bible. How come you are allowed as a Christian to ignore the inconvenient bits but claim it's all true? Maybe you don't personally but many do. People quote Genesis to counter evolution all the time. I quoted Leviticus heavily since people use the anti gay bit constantly as a reason to deny civil rights, but yet the ones right near it are ignored. So do you think gays are abominations based on your bible. If not, then doesn't that mean the bible isn't the word of God? If so, why exclude the other passages? If you believe the message of Jesus is more important than the bible then how about you defend your faith from Christian extremists. If Christian extremists are not the responsibility of moderate Christians then logically moderate Muslims should not be held responsible for the actions of Muslim extremists.

Christianity espouses spreading the faith through violence just like Islam. Also many countries are heavily Muslim and are well run secular states. You don't see a double standard in lumping all Muslims together while simultaneously saying I shouldn't do so with Christians?

Saying that the oppression of Arab nations by western powers for cheap oil isn't a factor and it's entirely religious is patently false as shown by nations like Indonesia who are the largest Muslim nation in earth (comparable to Brazil or America in population) who do not have these issues.

Once again you make excuses for your people while calling bull # on Muslims for doing the same. Bigotry and double standards. True American logic at its finest.

South Park said it best.

Benjamin Franklin: "I believe that if we are to form a new country, we cannot be a country that appears war-hungry and violent to the rest of the world. However, we also cannot be a country that appears weak and unwilling to fight, to the rest of the world. So, what if we form a country that appears to want both."
Thomas Jefferson: "Yes, yes of course, we go to war and protest going to war at the same time...."
Benjamin Franklin: "And that means that as a nation, we could go to war with whomever we wished, but at the same time act like we didn't want to. If we allow the people to protest what the government does, then the country will be forever blameless."
John Adams: "It's like having your cake and eating it too."
Anonymous Hick Redneck Founding Father: "Think of it: an entire nation founded on saying one thing and doing another."
John Hancock: "And we will call that country the United States of America."

Except now we don't even protest our wars. We only have the war mongering now. Many Americans think we should kill every Muslim on earth. I've heard more than one person say we should bomb the Middle East until it's glass. When the nation of supposedly righteous Christians advocate genocide and barely anyone speaks out you know the nation is failed.

Keep defending it. People are finally seeing the real America for what it is. I hope you're happy. These kinds of attitudes started the last world war. I guess we learned nothing from Germany except how to employ propaganda and violence. It seems like we're finally gonna get that 3rd one. The 3rd one is the last one too.

Hate breeds hate. That's why there are so many Muslim terrorists now. When you tell an entire people they are irredeemable and need to be removed they will defend themselves. Hopefully Pakistan doesn't get threatened asking with the rest of the Muslims. They have nukes.

Keep on hating. You're securing a legacy for America that will make Hitler seem like a child. America will be the most reviled nation in history, if there is anyone left to remember. We're supposed to be the good guys..........
edit on 13-10-2014 by tavi45 because: auto correct mistake



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 06:17 PM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
I am not a follower of any mainstream religion, but when I look at what is happening in the world today there is only one religion still in the dark ages. Muslims still kill in the name if their God and while Christians can be annoying they don't kill people anymore.

Blaming any group of people for their past is disingenuous. If Muslims want to be part of the 21st century we are all waiting to welcome them.


But this is incorrect. "Christian nations" and "Christian leaders" such as George Bush Jr. invaded several countries, killing hundreds of thousands of people. Most of the soldiers involved were ostensibly Christian. Ronald Reagan and Carter oversaw the Iran/Contra affair, another atrocity.

Since the 1950's the US and CIA have overseen numerous violent and anti-democratic atrocities abroad. All historical. All facts. All by ostensibly "Christian" leaders and soldiers.

Now, if you argue "they weren't really Christians" then you have to extend the same to extremist Muslims.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 06:19 PM
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originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14
This is just one of the many reasons I subscribe to no religion, and never plan to again. Especially the Abrahamic religions. They all claim the same god at the root of their religion, yet they are more than willing to send one another to death or hell for not believing in the same god, the same way they do.




Now this I agree with. I don't follow any longer any of the Abrahamic religions. I haven't seen the so called "fruits of the spirit" nor peace, love, awareness. There seems to be zero correlation between belonging to such religions and being a better person. What that means is that there are good and bad people of both those peoples and those not.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 06:22 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
Life has a history of killing from Cain to present . Weather real Christians/Islamist or false ones .Weather peaceful or war like ,they can all be brought to the fight it would seem . Plenty of history of Christians killing Christians and Islamist killing Islamist over such stupid differences . I guess it's what one person may be convinced of as a justifiable reason to do so . I guess that ignorance being one of the first aspects prayed upon by those that would want us to do their bidding .

We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers in high places . Well as a Christian ,that is what I believe ....peace a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14



Thanks for the response. I agree 100% that ignorant or perhaps superficial believers of all religions have committed atrocities, so by no means am I trying to single out Jews or Christians either. Just as, there are plenty of people from these religions who have not. This is the point of my op, that the generalizations and stereotypes are fallacious, and the very generalization one extends to Islam could thereby be extended to Christianity. Same bad logic.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 06:25 PM
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Nice. There also is arguably the Iraq War, with Dubya saying God told him to do it and that he was born-again.

And, the fact that the US and West have, under ostensibly Christian leaders, been staging massive military incursions around the world since the 1950's. How is that not violence?

The anti-Islamists want to ascribe responsibility to all Muslims for the deeds of Muslim leaders or extremists but then want to take away any generalized responsibility for all Christians based on the deeds of Christian leaders or extremists.

As Jesus said: "Judge ye not, for the measure that you mete out so shall it be meted out to you." This applies here.


originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: Metallicus



Muslims still kill in the name if their God and while Christians can be annoying they don't kill people anymore.

Dream on. Christians are still killing people around the world.
Central African Republic
India
Tripura
Odisha
Nagaland
Manipur
Lebanon
Northern Ireland
Norway
Uganda
United States
Christian terrorism
Sure looks like they are killing people.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 06:27 PM
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I agree with much of what you are saying.

But again, your argument only supports mine, not detracts from it.

I actually 1000% believe that the reason people are now so anti-Muslim is that pursuant to our geo-political goals in the ME and north Africa, our gov, media, and pundits have been actively demonizing Muslims since 911, with the express goal of dehumanizing them such that the public would support the desired wars.


originally posted by: intrptr

Western Christian stereotyping of Islam is at best, ignorant, and more likely hypocritical and bigot

You do realize that governments use religion as one way of fostering support for their just or unjust causes?

Like primary education that imbues young minds with national pride associated with flags and slogans, the PTP also uses organized religious beliefs to further their goals.

Our way of life and god is on our side, are primary movers. Classifiying others religious beliefs or culture as "less than" is how they motivate people to march on others.

One example of this is how they teach that the Christian God is the "One, True God". Once you believe that then it follows that "other gods" or deities can only be of the Devil. Its a shallow premise I know and many see through that ruse anyway… but a lot of mainstream Americans don't look that closely at the system or its activities.

They pay shallow homage to the flag or the western traditional church ethos (as little as they have to). For them its mostly lip service; I pay my tax, go to church on Sundays and stand for the National Anthem at ballgames, because that is what is required of me.

On the other hand, the manipulators and control freaks at the top of the hierarchy know full well exactly what they are doing when they condition your children's young minds in school, church and in front of the TV.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 06:28 PM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

There are good Christians. Tons of them actually. They aren't good because they are Christians though. They are good because they are good people. If God came down and told my mother that Christianity is a lie she wouldn't drop all her morals. Her parents raised her well. There are good and bad people in every religion. There are Buddhists beheading people. If even the never reviled Buddhists are committing extremely violent acts then maybe religion has less to do with things than peoole think.

masjidma.com...



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 06:29 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy


Wasn't there another beheading just last week right here in the United States? Who did that?

Hundreds of airstrikes later in Iraq (this time) and Syria (for the first time). Sorry, they can't hear your complaints either because they are dead or deaf, blown to bits, their cities destroyed. I'm not buying your feigned ignorance of that either.

So it goes, You are ether brainwashed by the media bias or promoting it. Which is it?
edit on 13-10-2014 by intrptr because: bb code



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 06:31 PM
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originally posted by: Nechash
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I'm going to take another look at Islam with more loving eyes. The Sufis obviously have insight into things that resonate at a harmonic frequency with my soul, so it can't possibly be entirely bad. Islam is probably the belief system that I am most inherently prejudiced against. Thanks for this. ;p


Thanks for the nice response.

I mean, our media has been propagandizing and dehumanizing Muslims for almost 15 years straight. It makes sense many are uncomfortable with Islam as a result.

Investigating it and its history I think will at the very least moderate one's view on it. And, knowing normal Muslims helps too.



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