Western Christian stereotyping of Islam is at best, ignorant, and more likely hypocritical and bigot

Hello everyone,

I say this with all due respect, but to be honest, I am quite sick of the demonization of Muslims, one, and other cultures as well in the West. I've spent the last decade working in development, which required both working in and with a variety of countries and ethnic/religious groups, and studying history and politics. I've lived and worked in Jordan, Egypt, and Bangladesh, all Muslim-majority countries. I have numerous friends who are Muslims, including here in the States.

I also was raised in an evangelical Christian home, and have numerous Christian friends and family members. I've also studied Christianity and its history extensively.

Given the history of religion, people, especially Christians or Jews, who only see the violence of some Muslims and then stereotype all Muslims, while ignoring the countless military excursions started by the Western and "Christian" leaders and soldiers, are clearly hypocritical and at best, ignorant.

Yes, there are extremist Muslims. However, the vast majority factually are not. Not one that I know personally is an extremist. They are all pretty normal. I hang out with some of them quite often.

Yes, there may be some problematic texts in the Koran and also some violence back in the day as well as now.

Well, a western Christian or Jew has no right to talk about that unless they also talk about Western aggression over the last 2000 years, including the Crusades and George Bush invading Iraq. Before you guys talk about the thousands of people Muslim terrorists have killed, look at the fact that Bush Jr.'s Iraq War II resulted in approximately 200,000 dead Iraqi civilians. He was a "Christian" president. Look at Vietnam, also executed by "Christian" presidents and nations. Also an illegal war. Resulted if I am correct in more than around a million dead. Look at colonialism, wherein European nations factually justified the taking of African, Asian, and American lands from indigenous populations because "Europeans are better" and because all of those peoples were savage heathens. They enslaved, tortured, or force converted hundreds of thousands or millions. How, pray tell, can you only call out the Muslims for being violent or for wanting to establish a universal caliphate when the Europeans and Catholic Church were trying to do this for hundreds of years?

AND, the Old Testament is filled with very violent and genocidal actions by the Israelites, so therefore once again if you point one finger at Islam, "four are pointing back."

The basic facts are over time, that "Christians" have killed and oppressed more Muslims worldwide than vice versa. The West has been occupying, attacking, couping, and manipulating the country borders of ME countries for several hundred years. Have the Muslims been doing so recently to Europe or the US? NO. The West colonized the ME and Africa, NOT the other way around. How is that for "imminent danger?"

This is why critical thinking is hard for most people. They can't look honestly at their own culture and religion because to do so would raise too many difficult questions, such as "is my religion really showing the fruits of the spirit," or "is America the best and most free country on Earth," or "how is it possible that Christian and Catholic people and nations have committed so much violence?"

Now, what might be acceptable is to call out orthodox and organized religion in both circumstances and their seeming inability to produce the "fruits of the spirit" and awareness that they purport to do, that seemingly massive atrocities have been committed by often the most fervent believers, of BOTH Christianity and Islam. That for SOME religious people, their religion produces extremism and violence, not peace and love. That there is something missing. What is not acceptable is to stereotype an entire group of people, dismiss an entire religion, nor only look at the sins of one while ignoring the past of your own.

I for one am not a follower of either, but do consider myself spiritual.

I am not a follower of any mainstream religion, but when I look at what is happening in the world today there is only one religion still in the dark ages. Muslims still kill in the name if their God and while Christians can be annoying they don't kill people anymore.

Blaming any group of people for their past is disingenuous. If Muslims want to be part of the 21st century we are all waiting to welcome them.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14
This is just one of the many reasons I subscribe to no religion, and never plan to again. Especially the Abrahamic religions. They all claim the same god at the root of their religion, yet they are more than willing to send one another to death or hell for not believing in the same god, the same way they do.

You can believe anything you want.
But I will say this, watch your back. Some day you might find a knife in it.

Life has a history of killing from Cain to present . Weather real Christians/Islamist or false ones .Weather peaceful or war like ,they can all be brought to the fight it would seem . Plenty of history of Christians killing Christians and Islamist killing Islamist over such stupid differences . I guess it's what one person may be convinced of as a justifiable reason to do so . I guess that ignorance being one of the first aspects prayed upon by those that would want us to do their bidding .

We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers in high places . Well as a Christian ,that is what I believe ....peace a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

a reply to: Metallicus

Muslims still kill in the name if their God and while Christians can be annoying they don't kill people anymore.

Dream on. Christians are still killing people around the world.
Central African Republic
India
Tripura
Odisha
Nagaland
Manipur
Lebanon
Northern Ireland
Norway
Uganda
United States
Christian terrorism
Sure looks like they are killing people.

Western Christian stereotyping of Islam is at best, ignorant, and more likely hypocritical and bigot

You do realize that governments use religion as one way of fostering support for their just or unjust causes?

Like primary education that imbues young minds with national pride associated with flags and slogans, the PTP also uses organized religious beliefs to further their goals.

Our way of life and god is on our side, are primary movers. Classifiying others religious beliefs or culture as "less than" is how they motivate people to march on others.

One example of this is how they teach that the Christian God is the "One, True God". Once you believe that then it follows that "other gods" or deities can only be of the Devil. Its a shallow premise I know and many see through that ruse anyway… but a lot of mainstream Americans don't look that closely at the system or its activities.

They pay shallow homage to the flag or the western traditional church ethos (as little as they have to). For them its mostly lip service; I pay my tax, go to church on Sundays and stand for the National Anthem at ballgames, because that is what is required of me.

On the other hand, the manipulators and control freaks at the top of the hierarchy know full well exactly what they are doing when they condition your children's young minds in school, church and in front of the TV.

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
You can believe anything you want.
But I will say this, watch your back. Some day you might find a knife in it.

Yes, thank you. We know of the "Be very afraid" approach to living ones life.

"Terror Alert" much?

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
You can believe anything you want.
But I will say this, watch your back. Some day you might find a knife in it.

Yes, thank you. We know of the "Be very afraid" approach to living ones life.

"Terror Alert" much?

I also lock my front door when I go to bed. Does that make me scared to go to sleep?

a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

I also lock my front door when I go to bed. Does that make me scared to go to sleep?

The "terrors" are a fog that creeps into your mind, not goes through locked doors.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
This is why critical thinking is hard for most people. They can't look honestly at their own culture and religion because to do so would raise too many difficult questions, such as "is my religion really showing the fruits of the spirit," or "is America the best and most free country on Earth," or "how is it possible that Christian and Catholic people and nations have committed so much violence?"

Excellent point and well-said! It's very easy for people to look at those different from them and find fault, but it's VERY hard to look critically at ourselves. Wasn't there something in the bible about taking care of the plank in one's eye before pointing out the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye?

Regardless of which religion has killed more or which is "worse", these two religions have much more in common than they have differences. But neither one sees it...

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I'm going to take another look at Islam with more loving eyes. The Sufis obviously have insight into things that resonate at a harmonic frequency with my soul, so it can't possibly be entirely bad. Islam is probably the belief system that I am most inherently prejudiced against. Thanks for this. ;p

a reply to: Nechash

It was the great Sufi, Hafiz who wrote the poem "Would You Think It Odd" (paraphrasing)

Would You think it odd if Hafiz said...
"I'm in Love with every Church,
and with every Temple,
and with every Mosque.
and every Synagogue,
and any kind of Shrine...

For it is there that I hear all the different names of the One God..."

Why the Muslim™ gets belittled and bombed for wanting their "Own Land" yet isn't that one of the 'beefs' with the 'foe de jour'? That ISIS wants their "Own Land" Doesn't that part of Abraham merit the consideration? But instead the Jew™ won't let the Muslim™ that won't let the Jew™ the Temple Mount, ALL the while the Chris†ian™ fights amongst HimSelf.. The JW™ isn't as 'Chris†ian™ as the Baptist™ but more Chris†ian™ than the Lutheran™ but the Catholic™ raises more $$$ so where do they rate??

Because of the above, I look to The Great Sioux Nation for advice.. "Organized Religion™ is for folks afraid of Hell, 'Spirituality' is for folks who've already been..."

Love is the only answer...
namaste

a reply to: JimNasium

Asalam Alakum. Namaste. ;p Buddhism is another religion I could expose myself to more sympathetically. I hate to admit this, but the very idea of Zen/Nirvana frightens me to my core. Self-death is not an easy phenomenon to endure.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

NO islam over time had enslaved, raped and murdered, stolen from and destroyed far more people than the hypocritical false christians ever did, the comparison between the old testament and islam is also wrong as the old testament time period was about people taking what God had given them from people who threw babys into fires.
Get your fact's streight, if you do not understand christianity they that is your problem but it is about compassion, forgiveness and trusting in God.
Those who enslaved among the so called christians did in in contravention of there own faith and against here religious law's and while it was allowed in Judaism it was far more lenient than in islam.
www.frontpagemag.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
wikiislam.net...
www.answering-islam.org...
www.truthandgrace.com...

What makes me Sick is Ignorant and Bigotted revisionist historians who spit on there own ancestor's placeing evil on an pedestal as a symbol of virtue.

You know muhammad had a slave and promised his followers slaves even in paradise, that they would have woman lay on there backs for them to rape them with there leg's spread.

a reply to: Nechash

The Tao Te Ching 'may' also show You a 'way'... You'll KNOW when it is 'right' because at that time, the 'others' won't seem 'wrong'.. The One who has to defend their religion™ haven't found 'it' yet. They sense a 'lack/need' and until that is found they'll continue to battle, and that battle is with their own Self.

You have begun the search 'inside' and it is there that You'll find 'it'. 'They' are looking for answers where the answers do not exist, outside of the 'Self'...

Enjoy Your trip and 'Fear Not'...

namaste

P.S. The Buddhism 'may' be helpful getting Your head around the re-incarnation/getting 'stuck'/attachment... They also do a mandala regarding "time" I was able to see 'past Lives' so I figured if I had some before, I'll have some more 'later', when it is 'time' to go... Where 'thought' is 'real' and the 'physical' is the 'illusion'.

a reply to: Metallicus

Christians might not run around killing people but your dipsh*t government certainly makes up for what the Christians aren't doing, what religion do they fall under out of curiosity?

originally posted by: Nechash
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I'm going to take another look at Islam with more loving eyes. The Sufis obviously have insight into things that resonate at a harmonic frequency with my soul, so it can't possibly be entirely bad. Islam is probably the belief system that I am most inherently prejudiced against. Thanks for this. ;p

I like the Sufi also. The mystics of Islam.



I myself have a lot of problem with Salafi/Wahabbi that are Sunni inspired sects that come from what today is Saudi Arabia. As with most religions the human written words are too ambiguous to be a good guide if they can create both the violent Wahabbi caught up in duality and hate and the Sufi striving to love.

Islam need to go beyond the female/male and create equal rights no matter what version of Islam it is be it Shia/Sunni/Sufi.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I actually have never bothered with the past history of something its whats happening today that counts. I wasn't there in the past and neither was anyone else so forget it and move on.

In today's world the trouble makers are muslins and if push came to shove who do you actualoly think muslims would align with, you or other muslims - I just think you should wake up.

The mentality of a muslim is stuck in the dark ages however much people think they have adapted, otherwise you wouldn't have so many people from different parts of the western world all joining these murderers and rapists. They even rape young children. Where does that come from in a western country? The odd criminal yes but then they exist all over the world and in islamic countries also - those joining isis can't all be sick but they can be brainwashed and must be otherwise these disgusting acts would not be happening. I hope we capture and kill each and every one of them.

a reply to: LABTECH767

the comparison between the old testament and islam is also wrong as the old testament time period was about people taking what God had given them from people who threw babys into fires.

So, because god said it was ok to wipe out whole cultures, killing men, women, children, and in some cases, even their animals, then it was cool, because it was in the name of god, and he gave them that which did not belong to them. Conquest in the name of god is always righteous when the victors are writing the history. And lets not forget how many times god chastised his own people for practicing the same things they were wiping out those other peoples for.

Get your fact's streight, if you do not understand christianity they that is your problem but it is about compassion, forgiveness and trusting in God.

Really? Then why is it only a fraction of xtians practice it? And why is it that Jesus said...
Matthew 10

34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.

and this...
John 8

24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

Or this...
Matthew 10

14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

Yes. It all sounds very forgiving and compassionate, as long as you are one of the sheep, but if you choose not to be, then you are a heathen, and an outcast.

Those who enslaved among the so called christians did in in contravention of there own faith and against here religious law's and while it was allowed in Judaism it was far more lenient than in islam.

Did they do it in contradiction to their faith? Or do they just interpret the bible different than you do? Seems we have a lot of denominations who deem other denominations as not even xtian, because of interpretation and doctrinal differences.

You know muhammad had a slave and promised his followers slaves even in paradise, that they would have woman lay on there backs for them to rape them with there leg's spread.

Paul didn't seem to have any problems with bond-servants and slaves...
Ephesians 6

5 Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ; 6 not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, 7 with goodwill doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men, 8 knowing that whatever good anyone does, he will receive the same from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free. 9 And you, masters, do the same things to them, giving up threatening, knowing that your own Master also is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.

1Timothy 6

Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed. 2 And those who have believing masters, let them not despise them because they are brethren, but rather serve them because those who are benefited are believers and beloved. Teach and exhort these things.

And since Jesus was silent on the issue except in the parable of Luke 12, I assume he was cool with it as well.

Xtianity is, and has always been about conquest. Jesus own words make it very clear that his disciples are to convert the world, in word and deed. And those who refuse, are spoken of as being already dead in some places, and already condemned in others, by Jesus himself.