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The 'Consequence' and the 'Why' in Near Death Experiences

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posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 06:14 AM
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Unfortunately, there isn't a single case of 'Near-Death' Experience (NDE) that proves beyond doubt that the human personality and consciousness continue indefinitely once the whole process of dying has completed. Of course, the literature and all the anecdotes it contains offer up profound implications that 'Post-Mortem' Consciousness (PMC) may well indeed continue, but implications are not factual evidences, they can only be classed as circumstantial.

Also, we not should rely on explanations arising from self-evidence by which we seek to fill the lacunae in our understanding of the mechanisms we undergo as we die to vindicate the content of the anecdotes. If you want to believe in PMC or NDE as validating an afterlife you are perfectly entitled to do so, however, for me personally, there are a number of questions I pose to myself to which I cannot ascertain any plausible hypothetical answer, and thus, will not allow me to accept either PMC or the implications of NDE without further enquiry.

I have had no self-validating experience of any kind which may have made apparent to me any kind of transcendent reality we might find ourselves in after we each complete the physiological death process. Others have claimed to have undergone such an experience - like the NDE, and as remarkable and sometimes as moving their accounts are, they always remain in the realm of hear-say.

The deep personal privacy of their experience prohibits and negates any uninhibited acceptance of what they tell us, without our making further necessary and essential investigation. NDE cannot be taken at face-value, nor can the ‘experiencer’ expect ‘non-experiencers’ to believe them simply on their report alone. Of course, experiencers should not be dismissed out-of-hand. They should not be ridiculed and thought of as being self-deluded. For the sake of understanding the enigma of NDE, experiencers should be met with an equal balance of openness and scepticism.

When Moody brought out his book ‘Life After Life’, back in the mid-seventies, NDE research didn’t exist, certainly not to the extent that it does today. Back then, the main pioneer for death research was Kubler-Ross, but the one essential issue that must never be forgotten is that in the mid-seventies, NDE reports were publicly unknown, and vitally, uncontaminated with prior or confabulated knowledge, and thus the earliest reports offer the most convincing anecdotal evidence.

Today, it is quite easy to fake a claim for NDE, or to embellish one. Fortunately, certain psychologists and medical doctors who took a proactive interest in the phenomenon came up with a ‘scale’ to judge the veracity of a claim – Grayson’s is one such NDE scale. From experiencer reports it was seen that NDE came in degrees and depths, and had certain core elements that were shared, but not all the elements were fully experienced, nor were they experienced in the same order.

One of the profound claims in many of the earliest NDE accounts was that one could believe in God (in whatever way you perceive) without needing to practice or adhere to a religion. That religious practice muddied the focus of one’s belief and intuited and private relationship to God. God is a Creator, not a destroyer of life. Never was, nor ever would be. God does not sit in judgment of you, but that a form of judgment does occur is stated in the earliest NDE reports…simply put,one judges oneself during one’s own ‘life review’. The life review is one of the core elements on the NDE scale, and only occurs in particularly deep experiences.

For me the life review was an astonishing and profoundly moving revelation (even as a non-experiencer) and it opened up an entirely new understanding for me with regard to God and religion. I could see that religious practice and creed placed a controlled schism between God and the individual, placing an imperial ideological obstruction between the two. No wonder then why religion, not God, is so contradicting of itself, and so destructive!

I perceived NDE as a phenomenological signpost that we all inwardly sought for. We know we have lost our way, and we cannot choose which path to take. No matter which way we turn, no matter who we listen to, or elect, we seem to always leave destruction, death, and despair in our wake. We are all at fault, and according to NDE experiencers, we will each come to cognize this when we undergo the life review personally and privately.

The remarkable aspect of the life review is its guiding power of bringing cognition and understanding to the experiencer. It is described as a very real ordeal, because of the way it immerses the consciousness of the experiencer into the consciousness of those whom the experiencer interacted with during physical life. In this way, the experiencer ‘experiences’ the impact he made on others. The experiencer ‘experiences’ himself from the point of view of others. He feels on all levels what others felt at the time of his interaction with them. Think about that and reflect upon this profound tutoring mechanism.

If we were able to experience the life reviews’ consciousness immersive power during physical life, what kind of world would we now be living in?

John Lennon sang”…Imagine there no’s heaven…and no religion too…” because he perceived heaven as a reward which religion taught, but in reality, religion is extremely divisive and could drive men to commit bad actions upon one another through a self-righteous delusion. He wasn’t wrong.

Heaven, however, is most certainly separate and distinct from religion, and for which religion has nothing accurate to say. Heaven is not a geographical place, it is like consciousness, a ‘state of condition’ inside each and every one of us, but it is up to each and every one of us to allow it to bloom and blossom forth from our own individual interactions with our environment, and with other life forms, including and most importantly, with each other.

God’s greatest adjuration is to ‘love’ one another. It isn’t a commandment; it is a freedom of choice. When we don’t love one another, we fail ourselves, and widen the gap to God. Religion cannot fill that gap; it only widens it evermore, because religion has evolved into nothing more than a fog impeding our vision, impeding our connecting to God.

What is God? I cannot truly say. The best I could offer from my own perspective is that ‘God’ is the creative principle throughout the whole known and unknown universe. God is the engine of creation and is transcendently far removed from any description we could apply. I do believe the ‘biblical’ version to be a monstrous falsity, a channel that can lead only to an abyss, an abyss into whose dark maw we stare.

It is of no use hoping for some external or divine intervention to come along and save us from ourselves. The intervention has to come from us. We have to find a way to step back from the edge of the yawning abyss, no matter how hard we are pushed towards its edge by our dysfunctional and disparate mindsets. We do have it in us to do so, but we seemingly lack the will, whether out of fear or mistrust, or both?

Continued...




posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 06:15 AM
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When I first read accounts of the life review back in the mid-seventies, and fully explored its themes and imputations, I realised at last I had come across a concept of what could be considered as ‘spiritual guideship’ that I found personally and resonantly agreeable. It did not exude any form of authoritarian control, it showed only ‘consequence’ and ‘why’ of one’s actions and by that mechanism brought cognition and understanding so that an adjustment to how one acted could be made. It is the same simple mechanism that tells you not hold your hand in a fire. Everything we do has a consequence, and everything we do is retained in our life’s memory, to be later recalled and re-lived from all perspectives during the life review…according to the reports of many NDE experiencers.

Of course, it is not ‘instant karma’ rebounding on you. During physical life each of us can turn away from God’s adjuration to love one another…afterall, we are ‘free’ to choose. However, now that you have read these words, you cannot say you were unaware or not forewarned. The information has been given to you, but how you use it or forget it, is entirely up to you. You will be asked the question of ‘why’ at your own life review…if indeed it does occur.

I myself, treat it as if it does, and it has changed me as a person…another consequence. It hasn’t been easy, it has been very hard, and I have lost much in the change. I can’t go back, and I can’t re-build all that which I lost, my internal convictions won’t allow me to. To be honest, I feel like I am in a world of despairing limbo when I see how others act upon others, but I cannot change anything, I can only change myself…and you know what, that is the key.



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 06:40 AM
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I took the time to read the above and couldn't really understand what is your question.

Imagine this experience knowing with certainty that your consciousness continued, for a vast majority suicide would be a continuous occurrence.

Our present culture worships control and control by it's nature must be intolerant of loss and uncertainty in order to be effective, thus the imaginative creational stories of gods, and whatever fills the void of the unknown to appease our fears.



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 08:25 AM
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my NDE of 17 years ago did not offer me a reward of 'heaven'
I had a choice of staying in that pleasant state of euphoria, with the feeling of being engulfed in a warm, loving, protected state of being
~Or~
returning to the world of wakeful reality with all It's dangers, rewards, emotions, pains, memories...IOW Life itself


I chose to return to the stressful world of nature
instead of the serene place of a perpetual 'high', somewhat like a morphine drip delirium



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 09:13 AM
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I was sitting shotgun in a car traveling roughly 60 MPH, when some kids playing basketball in the street caused the driver to swerve and over correct.

We hit two trees and flipped over on to the roof. I shattered the passenger side window with my face. My ear was almost hanging off and I broke my L1.

I hope that qualifies as a NDE.

I woke up in the ambulance, realized what happened, figured I should have died but did not, and that was that.

No trumpets, no hellfire, no white light.
Just the morphine buzz.

They say it's the release of '___' that causes the NDE hallucinations. Reading reports of '___' intoxication would easily prove that theory plausible, as the most common aspect of a '___' trip and a NDE is a blinding white light with a sentience.

Edit: Can you really not say DEE EM TEE? This site confuses me. The censorship is very odd.

edit on 12-10-2014 by Psychonautics because: This site



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 10:18 AM
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subtopia:

I took the time to read the above and couldn't really understand what is your question.


Many thanks for reading, and many thanks for responding. Truth is, I didn't ask a question. I wrote of having personal questions that held me back from accepting NDE implications fully. The questions are not in the text, and I may never include them, but aside from the philosophical aspect, I also approach NDE from a lay physics angle, and the questions are more to do with physics.
I have studied NDE since the late seventies, and was once an administrator on the NDERF forum, which allowed me to correspond with a number of well-known NDE experiencers, and many not known. I was able to gleam a fair bit from these honourable conversations. None could provide conclusive proof, but that is not the point of NDE, as it is a very personal and private experience purely for the experiencer only.


Imagine this experience knowing with certainty that your consciousness continued, for a vast majority suicide would be a continuous occurrence.



I understand your reasoning, but you are quite wrong. A number of people who committed suicide have undergone NDE, and understood their suicide to be quite wrong, as it impedes their progression and learning, and also learn of the impact their suicide had upon loved ones, family and friends. I know of only one case where a person was said to have had an NDE and then later, having returned, attempted suicide again, and fully succeeded.
Those who have NDE return with a very reduced fear of death, so much so that it is practically none-existent, but apart from the one case above, all have stated that they have no desire to manufacture their own death just so they can return to the realm they visited.


Our present culture worships control and control by it's nature must be intolerant of loss and uncertainty in order to be effective, thus the imaginative creational stories of gods, and whatever fills the void of the unknown to appease our fears.


Indeed so. You have no argument from me on that score. However, although experiencers often report that they are told to go back and return to this realm, there is no authoritarian control present in NDE. Everything occurs within an embrace of pure unconditional love, with the primary aspect being that of cognition and understanding. Being embraced within unconditional love is a very essential aspect, particularly during the life review, because one's own self-judgement tends to be very harsh. One experiencer viewing a frame of his life when he was young re-lived an episode with his sister and some slight he caused her. He felt how he had made her feel, and reported that he was ready to condemn himself to hell for all eternity for it. The life review, experienced in the presence of a 'being-of-light' who does not judge, but exudes total unconditional love, is no easy experience, but it is essential for the understanding of the life just lived. Many experiencers having had a life review are very thankful for a 2nd chance to do better, which again is another reason why suicide amongst experiencers is practically zero.

St Udio:

My NDE of 17 years ago did not offer me a reward of 'heaven'.


As far as I can tell, heaven is never a reward, it is an attunement, a balance between inner and outer resonances. If you like, as a metaphor, we could say that we go to the heaven or hell we deserve, the one we book a ticket for by our actions in life. It all depends on how we are able to handle the life review, as it is we who judge and condemn ourselves, and it is that self-judgement that determines the realm we are able to tune into. Of course, this is simply a speculated summation based on the reports I have studied. Thanks for reading.
edit on 12/10/14 by elysiumfire because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 10:20 AM
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I understand your reasoning, but you are quite wrong. A number of people who committed suicide have undergone NDE, and understood their suicide to be quite wrong, as it impedes their progression and learning, and also learn of the impact their suicide had upon loved ones, family and friends. I know of only one case where a person was said to have had an NDE and then later, having returned, attempted suicide again, and fully succeeded.
Those who have NDE return with a very reduced fear of death, so much so that it is practically none-existent, but apart from the one case above, all have stated that they have no desire to manufacture their own death just so they can return to the realm they visited.


Our present culture worships control and control by it's nature must be intolerant of loss and uncertainty in order to be effective, thus the imaginative creational stories of gods, and whatever fills the void of the unknown to appease our fears.


Indeed so. You have no argument from me on that score. However, although experiencers often report that they are told to go back and return to this realm, there is no authoritarian control present in NDE. Everything occurs within an embrace of pure unconditional love, with the primary aspect being that of cognition and understanding. Being embraced within unconditional love is a very essential aspect, particularly during the life review, because one's own self-judgement tends to be very harsh. One experiencer viewing a frame of his life when he was young re-lived an episode with his sister and some slight he caused her. He felt how he had made her feel, and reported that he was ready to condemn himself to hell for all eternity for it. The life review, experienced in the presence of a 'being-of-light' who does not judge, but exudes total unconditional love, is no easy experience, but it is essential for the understanding of the life just lived. Many experiencers having had a life review are very thankful for a 2nd chance to do better, which again is another reason why suicide amongst experiencers is practically zero.

St Udio:

My NDE of 17 years ago did not offer me a reward of 'heaven'.


As far as I can tell, heaven is never a reward, it is an attunement, a balance between inner and outer resonances. If you like, as a metaphor, we could say that we go to the heaven or hell we deserve, the one we book a ticket for by our actions in life. It all depends on how we are able to handle the life review, as it is we who judge and condemn ourselves, and it is that self-judgement that determines the realm we are able to tune into. Of course, this is simply a speculated summation based on the reports I have studied. Thanks for reading.



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 10:44 AM
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a reply to: elysiumfire

There is of course, the Meduna Mixture. It seems to produce
a NDE like experience.

I suspect that certain Yoga breathing exercises develop the brain
in the way that reacts like NDE's.(Gradual toleration of higher CO2)

I am with you that there is really not evidence of survival in any permament way.(I believe
ghosts are another phenomenom)

However, I have sensed what occult sources describe as the Feeling Center around
dead bodies. In some cases it is incredibly strong and persists indefinitely(this
is the source of "Baraka" at the tomb of Sufi Saints.) Seems probable that the devotees
perpetuate it. This emotional center is mostly suppressed by
the active nervous system and reactive emotions.

When you are in the presence of a recently deceased
person, close your eyes and quiet your mind. Try and feel the person. The habitual
emotional stance of the individual can be felt.
In some cases its quite surprising.



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 12:58 PM
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UMayBRite!:

There is of course, the Meduna Mixture. It seems to produce
a NDE like experience.


Yes, you are quite right. Chemicals and gases acting on the brain can produce NDE-like effects, but as far as I am aware, only death produces a genuine NDE experience.



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 07:56 PM
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NDE are one of the drivers for the book on Human Behavior I am writing, NDE's either trigger dormant neurological areas of our pre-programming(ie, downloaded from mother to child in-utero, as are heredity habits) or we truly are a 'spiritual being' -the word we presently used to describe our non physiological forms.
If so then we are here either to:
-learn a lesson
-punishment
-help others
-hurt others
-experience all the forms that gain and loss can take.
-fell down a hole chasing a white rabbit
-took the blue pill

I still feel after all my studies that being fully aware that you are having a specific experience would diminish the experience if what many NDE returners claim.

The possibility also is that it may just be a subconsciously compelled protective neurological mechanism that evolved over millions of years to give us a nice warm fuzzy feeling while a predator is eating us alive.

After ten years I cannot find a human behavior that cannot be explained by a definable singular primal impulse instigated by all living creatures including humans(which is not survival) and as you have stated, NDE are by their nature inconclusive until a method of downloading human thoughts moves from the realm of sci-fi to mainstream reality.



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: subtopia

How could you download human thoughts when brain activity is shut down during their NDE? They can already "download" human thoughts by looking at brainwave activity.

How could it evolve when this is happening at the point of death? At that point, between a critter that does or doesn't have a certain mutation, you can't pass it on. There would be no point according to the theory of evolution, and couldn't be passed on.

And to the OP, if you were unbiased/objective, and really wanted an answer/further explaination, why not bring to the table specific questions? Or discuss -specific points- from doctors and scientists that have published research papers and/or books about NDEs.

As far as earlier accounts being less contaminated, I don't think that makes sense, nor the idea that people, who are -dying-, really have a huge interest in taking the "opportunity" to create a fake story about some experience. "Ah ha! Now finally having almost died, I can bring my plan to fruition". Just doesn't seem realistic.

And then downplaying NDEs in your OP, but then later citing it for certain ideas you have? You're citing NDE's as being something important, yet at the beginning saying they're not really worth anything because they're anecdotal and hearsay.


edit on 10/12/2014 by Turq1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 09:57 PM
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a reply to: elysiumfire

Prior to having my near death experience I did not believe in an afterlife or a soul. I thought that when we die it will be exactly as it was before we lived, absolutely nothing.

Then, in 2003, I had a near death experience that completely changed my spiritual beliefs. Life is not the same to me as before, there is much more meaning in it now. My experience was very real to me and solidified my belief in the afterlife.

Until actually having a near death experience happen to you, it's easy to brush it off and not believe. That's exactly how I felt before mine. Most people who have had a NDE don't expect others to believe their experience, I fully except people to claim mine was a hallucination, false memory etc...and that's perfectly alright. My family and close friends believe in my experience, and I'd be perfectly fine if they didn't. Any validation I seek in my experience is for my benefit only, it was my experience.

I don't expect that there will ever be any real scientific proof of an after life in our lifetime. That being said, I don't want the research to stop and enjoy reading about other peoples NDE's.
edit on 12-10-2014 by Jennyfrenzy because: autocorrect



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 01:04 AM
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a reply to: elysiumfire

My life started with a near death experience. I was born with cerebral palsy. That's birth trauma or prenatal lack of oxygen to the brain that resulted in brain damage. Somehow I survived my lack of oxygen and became a person, today. In addition to my life starting out with a NDE, I've attempted suicide. That landed me in critical care with renal failure and on oxygen. You would think that a suicide attempt would render me ineligible for NDEs in the sense that a complete rejection of God's gift of life would follow with, God follows suit with, "I know you not". But that hasn't seemed to be the case. I have had major issues with "God be's" or something. Some things seem to be people created. Other things seem like that can't be except for God. I can't tell the difference sometimes. But they don't relate with any experience I had during that moment of trauma. I definitely can't remember life before birth. When I attempted suicide I collapsed on a gas station floor. I tried to kill myself after my husband and I separated because he was addicted to child pornography. I felt like it was my fault. Like I couldn't please him. Also, I was pregnant at such a young age and I tend to attract these types. I don't like being involved in the process of these perversions. I took a bunch of pills including anti psychotics and went for a nice long walk. It was a strange experience. I got scared about dying. I don't think anyone is really excited about dying. Mostly my dying is about leaving all this criminal garbage, about getting these men OFF of me. When I wandered into the gas station I collapsed on the floor and had people stepping over me to buy their cigarettes and pay for their gas. The cashier called 911. She didn't stop ringing people up. My mom showed up before the ambulance. I don't know how she knew I was there. Even to this day we don't talk about it. I'm scared to talk about it. When she got there, I got up off the floor because I didn't want people stepping over me dying, any more. It wasn't like my whole life wasn't just people stepping over me. I wandered outside and waited for the ambulance on the curb. But when I was lying on the floor, I stopped talking to the cashier at one point. Right before my mom got there I felt like an aura of light all around my body. Like I was this light and I was one step removed from my body. Then my mom was there, grabbing my arm and shouting my name. In the ambulance, they gave me some shot and there was a doctor or something in there with me. I was completely out by the ambulance ride and they couldn't wake me anymore besides the one shot. I didn't wake up for three days. Since then even, I get these powerful events that I can only describe as ways that God shows me he is still here with me. But my whole life is one eternal event. Even how my birthday lined up was pretty cool. In 2012, my birthday fell on Ash Wednesday so I decided to participate in Lent that year so I could fast from my birth to Christ's resurrection. That was the year of the Mayan rebirth for their calendar, too. I'm not Catholic or Mayan. It's just a pretty harmony. So I ended up giving the Mayans my rebirth because it was during that time that I became a vegetarian. Not because it felt like a spiritual affair. Just it felt good and clean and healthy. I was born on the day my Uncle was buried. He was a Vietnam vet and my birthday is Washington's birthday. I like that God gave me poetry to live. But my poetry has been in the living part. Not so much in the dying part. Even in the living with my cerebral palsy. That is in that I have lived. I think to me having survived these things, that is my being evolution. But I am a firm believer that God is in every part of that.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 02:15 AM
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a reply to: elysiumfire
I genuinely appreciated the OP and your thoughts on the subject, elysiumfire.
Oddly enough, the 'after-life-review' seemed to carry a lot of the load in the Teachings of Don Juan' (as per the books of Carlos Castaneda) with regard to the recapitulation of one's life/life-events, and the various effects of the same...
From my perspective, it seemed to be an experience of extreme intensity...that virtually mimicked what you have described in the NDE(s) review process (except - I don't recall anything about any beings of light, helping).
Thanks again for your thoughts... They were refreshing.



posted on Oct, 14 2014 @ 12:35 PM
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subtopia:

If so then we are here either to...


What if the physical form is an incubator for a newly created spirit, and that death is the 'hatching' (for want of a better adjective) into a more ethereal existence? This was a question I asked to myself many years ago, because my lay research into NDE, which is quite long and extensive, suggested that this could be a probability? Of course, my lay research didn't just consist entirely of NDE research, in fact, it began with esoteric texts and literature, in which there are a number of shared commonalities and concepts.

We are a very complex and utterly mysterious trilogy of body, mind, and potentially 'spirit'. Our very existence is a best, but unique puzzle. Throughout my research I always placed aside reincarnation as a subject that defocussed my search for life's purpose, and also to remain as transparent and as objective to what many claimed for the world of spirit. I believe that life itself is what gives purpose to life, and the fact that part of that purpose is a learning process about the world from infancy to adulthood and beyond, not as a restricting program determining the outcome, but as a necessary incidental of self-sentient awareness, the concept of a pre-physical existence and a 'choosing' of a particular physical life experience for progressive learning, seemed to me to be nothing more than a convenient explanation. I say this being quite aware of the few outstanding cases of reincarnation that exist. However, learning is exactly what we do, our lives are predicated on it, as is our survival and longevity.

I won't go into laboured detail in this post regarding the idea of the body being an incubator, I'll save that for another post.



posted on Oct, 14 2014 @ 12:38 PM
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Just like to say a warm welcome and 'thank you' to the other posters I have not yet responded to, yet. Hopefully, I'll get some time over the coming days to make responses to each of you.

Best wishes

E



posted on Oct, 14 2014 @ 01:00 PM
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Near-Death Experiences are Lucid Dreams, Experiment Finds


More than 8 million Americans have had a near-death experience, and they most often occur during states of anesthesia-induced sleep, according to the center. Prior work by neurologists, including Kevin Nelson of the University of Kentucky, suggests that NDEs are indeed generated by the same brain mechanisms that cause lucid dreams. Nelson's research shows that both types of experiences arise when part of the brain called the dorsolateral prefrontal region — our "logical center," which is usually active only when we're awake — becomes active during REM sleep, allowing extremely vivid dreams that seem to be happening in real life. He calls the transitional state between dreaming and wakefulness a "borderland of consciousness" and believes it is in this mixed state that lucid dreams and NDEs occur.

With Nelson's research in mind, Raduga designed his experiment to determine if volunteers could be coached to dream up NDEs when in the transitional phase between sleep and waking. This would demonstrate that reports of NDEs, which are commonly cited as proof of the supernatural, really are just lucid dreams.

Volunteers who successfully generated NDEs described their experiences for the researchers. One participant, identified by the center asNadezhda S., stated: "I was able to leave my body after a couple of tries. Now that I was out of my body, I wanted to see the tunnel and it immediately appeared in front of me … Once I flew to the end of that tunnel … I saw my deceased husband there in the spirit. We spoke for several minutes. His words, touch, bearing, and feelings were real, just like during his life. Later on, when I felt it was time to leave, I went up to the tunnel, jumped and gently landed in my body."

Nelson said conclusions from the research should be "cautiously drawn" until the findings pass the peer-review process, but they are nonetheless well-aligned with prior research on NDEs. "Lucid dreaming can be conditioned and bears an uncanny similarity to near-death," Nelson told Life's Little Mysteries. "Indeed, Raduga's study demonstrates the similarity of near-death and lucid dreaming. Evidence from many sources converges to support that lucid dreaming and near-death use similar brain mechanisms but in different circumstances."


Take it how you want. I know someone will be along shortly to deny this evidence.



posted on Oct, 14 2014 @ 02:01 PM
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Krazysh0t:

I know someone will be along shortly to deny this evidence.


I'm sure you are aware that NDE's have occurred in places where no anaesthesia of any kind was able to be administered? Of course, the researcher is suggesting that it is a similar mechanism that drives the NDE experience...fair enough, it is a plausible hypothesis, but one that has been discounted.

Dream content is unique among sleepers, multiple dreamers do not share the same dream content, whereas NDE-experients do. The same core content is experienced; warmth, light, OOBE (disembodied consciousness), meeting deceased relatives, and sometimes 'beings-of-light', a 'life review' (which does not happen in dreams), and a choice to come back. With regard to the OOBE experience, dreamers rarely dream about their immediate environment in real time. NDE-experients report witnessing real time events in their immediate environment. Admittedly, this reporting of real time events is hard to validate, but some witnesses other than the experient have provided validating statements to the claims.

I'm only playing advocate here...



posted on Oct, 14 2014 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: elysiumfire

Once again

Volunteers who successfully generated NDEs described their experiences for the researchers. One participant, identified by the center asNadezhda S., stated: "I was able to leave my body after a couple of tries. Now that I was out of my body, I wanted to see the tunnel and it immediately appeared in front of me … Once I flew to the end of that tunnel … I saw my deceased husband there in the spirit. We spoke for several minutes. His words, touch, bearing, and feelings were real, just like during his life. Later on, when I felt it was time to leave, I went up to the tunnel, jumped and gently landed in my body."


Sounds like an NDE experience to me, except this one was produced in a laboratory setting with the person NOT near death. Also, if we are trying to play advocate, where is the research to show that the memory of the NDE didn't form AFTER the person was resuscitated?

Studying Near Death Experiences


Second, the argument assumes without justification that the memories reported by those who survive CPR and have an NDE were formed during the CPR or when they were unconscious. It is more likely that some or all of those memories formed when the person was waking up adn their sense of time is as distorted as all their brain function. Unlike in the movies, people do not wake up fully conscious and lucid after having their heart restarted. After minutes of CPR the brain has taken a hit due to the hypoxia. People typically wake from this event slowly – taking hours or even days, depending on the duration and quality of the CPR. They will necessarily pass through a phase where they are what is called encephalopathic (their brain is functioning but not well), which is a type of delirium. It is common to have bizarre thoughts and perceptions, hallucination, and illusions during this period.

When patients then fully wake up to report their experiences, all they have is their memories, which includes the memories of the transition period from unconscious, through a delirious period, and to fully conscious. They have no way of knowing when those memories formed.

The only way to definitively distinguish between memories formed during CPR and those formed during the period of encephalopathy is for the memories to contain specific details that could only have been obtained during the CPR. This claim is often made, but either there is a lack of compelling documentation, or the details are too vague to be definitive. People describing a typical CPR experience, for example, is not specific. Sometimes people after a NDE will claim to recognize the nurse or doctor who worked on them, but they may just be attaching those memories to people they encountered before or after the experience.



posted on Oct, 14 2014 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: elysiumfire

Also it should be noted. There is currently the AWARE study being taken place that has just released its results for peer reviewed study. While Dr. Parnia (the head scientist) seems to be siding on the side that NDE's exist, the following should be noted (from wikipedia):


As part of the AWARE study Parnia and colleagues have investigated out of body claims by using hidden targets placed on shelves that could only be seen from above.[13] Parnia has written "if no one sees the pictures, it shows these experiences are illusions or false memories".[13] Parnia issued a statement indicating that the first phase of the project has been completed and the results are undergoing peer review for publication in a medical journal.[14] No subjects saw the images mounted out of sight according to Parnia's early report of the results of the study at an American Heart Association meeting in November 2013. Οnly two out of the 152 patients reported any visual experiences, and one of them described events that could be verified.[15]

edit on 14-10-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



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