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Only the Truly Needy Have Any Excuse to Wear Fur

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posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 03:25 PM
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@Astrocreep,

Every little bit helps and it has to start somewhere


I agree about oppression, that word rears it's ugly head everywhere.
But there's more to the meat/world hunger link than you think.

World Hunger;
Meat feeds few at the expense of many. For the sake of producing meat, grain that could feed people feeds livestock instead. According to information compiled by the United States Department of Agriculture, over ninety percent of all the grain produced in America goes to feed livestock-cows, pigs, sheep, and chickens-that wind up on dinner tables. Yet the process of using grain to produce meat is incredibly wasteful. Figures from the U.S. Department of Agriculture show that for every sixteen pounds of grain fed to cattle, we get back only one pound of meat.

From here;
www.webcom.com...

[edit on 9/12/2004 by ANOK]




posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 03:27 PM
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@ Smokenmirrors;

www.jesusveg.com...



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 03:30 PM
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Well, thought I'd add that the very few times I did go hunting (often more with a bow than a rifle), we ate the animal we killed, and we used the other components (fur, bone, etc.) I once had a set of rabbit fur ear muffs that would keep your ears toasty no matter how cold it got in Alaska...


IBM

posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by IBM

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by IBM
There is nothing wrong with wearing or eating animals, PETA for i care can go to hell. Animals are made by god to be eaten and and worn for warmth, mmmmmmm.


Hmmmmm you need to do some research, here's a start;

www.compassionatespirit.com...

www.highvibrations.org...



I actually became more hungry by looking at that website. I now have a craving for a double cheeseburger with fries now. MMMM beef. Its whats for dinner.


Well I'm glad I could be of help to ya!
You obviously just don't get it.
Along with a lot of other ppl. We live in a world where (especialy the USA) everybody thinks only they matter.
Does it make you feel tough and manly to say stuff like that?


Young man: "Er, no I wouldn't give up meat"
Interviewer: "And if 30 million ppl a year are dying of hunger or hunger related deseases"
YM: "Nar i still wouldn't give up meat"
While ppl starve elswhere 9 tenth of the grain grown in the United States is fed to animals so that we can eat meat. The result is that we feed pigs better than most 3rd world countries feed people.
Old lady: "A lot of them should get enought food shouldn't they? What do they spend their money on"
Young girl: "If they starve they starve, it's up to them. It's where they put themselves isn't it?"

Whats this forums moto? ...OH yeah Deny Ignorance!




Its not my fault that they are hungry, its their CORRUPT, yes CORRUPT governments fault that they are hungry. Look at the African countries, the warring tribes. The USA is not corrupt, all third world countries are Corrupt and think of themselves before others, so if they want to have it that way so be it.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
@ Smokenmirrors;

www.jesusveg.com...


Yes, I see you linked me to one hundred and eighty six pages in an attempt to negate what is so clearly stated in just one paragraph of my post.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by smokenmirrors

Yes, I see you linked me to one hundred and eighty six pages in an attempt to negate what is so clearly stated in just one paragraph of my post.


Oh sorry if it doesn't agree with what you claim, but my eighty six pages is no less valid than your one paragraph. I don't realy get your point.
Did you read any of it, or just dismiss it cause you don't want to read something that goes against your conditioning?



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 05:12 PM
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@IBM

America is NOT corrupt?...Give me a break

All Third World countries are corrupt...Give me a break again


On what authority can you make those claims?

It's so black and white isn't it?



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
@IBM

America is NOT corrupt?...Give me a break

All Third World countries are corrupt...Give me a break again


On what authority can you make those claims?

It's so black and white isn't it?

Your a miguided follower of stupidity.sorry.....but thats what PETA is.STUPID!!!!
and if you believe that animal rights supercede human rights,then you are the company that you keep.gives all new meaning to the term "Meathead".



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 07:56 PM
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They should definately stop killing animals for fur. HOWEVER, if someone gives me an old luxiurious fur coat and the animal has been loooong dead i would wear it and wouldnt think anything of it. The damage has already been done.

Would i buy a NEW fur coat? NO!
Do i want to see the killing of animals for fur stop? YES

Just honesty, thats all.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 07:57 PM
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Your a miguided follower of stupidity.sorry.....but thats what PETA is.STUPID!!!!
and if you believe that animal rights supercede human rights,then you are the company that you keep.gives all new meaning to the term "Meathead".


Ooooh Snap! He sure told you, Anok!


Okay, I am trying to stay the hell out of this thread, but that was too much to resist.
Anok-
You have done a good job putting up with obnoxious remarks from some very judgemental, closed minded posters.

I felt almost as though I was obligated to chime into this dialogue, but truthfully its the same damn crap people always say, and frankly, its a headache.

I will say this. I live a vegan lifestyle. I am quite comfortable with it, and think people should not snap to such judgements about groups that support animal rights. I am no extremist, and I do not condemn people for the choices they make in living their lives.

Go ahead wear fur, but the word is out, and in most peoples eyes you will look kinda prickish.

Go ahead eat meat. Wear leather. But you may want to remember that every dollar you spend is a vote cast. I like to do a little research before I cast a vote. Regardless of some of the unsavory associations people have with many animal rights groups, they have uncovered a lot of information for those of you who wish to be responsible consumers.

It isn't necessary to make extreme commitments, but moderation and consideration are a good way to improve things. Astrocreep



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by Samhain

Your a miguided follower of stupidity.sorry.....but thats what PETA is.STUPID!!!!
and if you believe that animal rights supercede human rights,then you are the company that you keep.gives all new meaning to the term "Meathead".


C'mon dude is that the best you can do!
When you can't argue your point anymore, cause you have none, you revert to name calling? How mature are you!
You are obviously threatened by this. So that tells me you do have a conscience, but you don't like it, so you get angry.
It's too hard for some ppl to change and accept that something they were doing is possibly not really a good thing.
There is such a stigma associated with being compassionate toward anything, perpetuated by those it serves to benefit.
Follower of stupidity?
The monkey in the vivisection lab doesn't think it's stupid, neither does the fox in it's 2.5' square cage. Neither did the numerous other animals I helped liberate. Put in safe places to live the rest of their lives humanely.
Who said animal rights supersedes human rights?
Do humans have the right to put animals in tiny cages for their short life and then be turned into a coat for you to keep warm? Do we have that RIGHT? If you think we do, pls explain to my why we do. And without spurting the stereotypical garbage the papers print.
The only ppl the animal industry benefits is those collecting the profit.

And you didn't answer my question.

(BTW thank you Duh Squared, my paitience is wearing thin....lol)

[edit on 9/12/2004 by ANOK]



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 06:42 AM
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Originally posted by ANOK
Oh sorry if it doesn't agree with what you claim, but my eighty six pages is no less valid than your one paragraph. I don't realy get your point.
Did you read any of it, or just dismiss it cause you don't want to read something that goes against your conditioning?


Yes, I skimmed parts of the eternal link and found it quite boring. Anyone can post anything to support any claim. What is one's belief is just that.

Two major things are being discussed in this thread.

Raising and Killing animals for fur and Trapping animals for fur is LEGAL. Man has used animals for food and shelter since the dawn of time. Would I bomb, burn down, or kill the owner of such an establishment? Nope. Do crazy extremists do such things? YEP

www.iftf.com...

Eating Meat is another topic of this thread. Meat too has been eaten by mankind since the dawn of time. Get over it. If you don't want to eat meat, fine, but don't pace back and forth scheming ways to deny me my right to do so, plain and simple.

Your rights stop where my nose starts.....GET IT?

I don't particulary care if you go around naked eating black beans all day. But trust me on this one, If I want to trap fox, cut 'em up, make a nice fur jacket, and eat venison all day long, you and your cronies ain't gonna stop me.

smoken



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 06:58 AM
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Originally posted by smokenmirrors

Raising and Killing animals for fur and Trapping animals for fur is LEGAL.
That doesn't make it right. Any thinking, "feeling human BEING" knows that to kill something for the sole purpose of taking it's skin AND NOTHING MORE....isn't right, legal or not. This has nothing to do what so ever to do with warmth...just vain stupidity.



Eating Meat is another topic of this thread. Meat too has been eaten by mankind since the dawn of time. Get over it. If you don't want to eat meat, fine, but don't pace back and forth scheming ways to deny me my right to do so, plain and simple.

Unless I missed it somewhere, no where in this thread is anyone saying you can't eat meat, no one has implied you can't eat meat!
What's with all your hostility? No one here is attacking you


Most people don't bother posing in thread that they are not interested in.....if you find the thread "boring" why are you posting in it?: puz:



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 09:25 AM
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Anok, you definately touched a nerve or two mate, spot on. Im impressed as hell at how well you've conducted yourself despite hostility and outright deliberatly provocative post. These people know your right, but will continue to use the same nonsense responses indefinately. Having shown their true colors they cannot afford to acceed even the most valid and basic truths you have spoken of, lest they lose face. Some cannot amit error nor show anything of what they consider "softness" because it threatens their self image and selfish beleifs. You have spoken well and in my eyes won the arguement by number of valid statements made which cannot be rebuked in a logical and calm statement. well done. My advice is let it go now, any further post will simply feed the trolls/flog a dead horse.
Ive voted you way above.

Astrocreep, you impress me too, you show alot of maturity and reason. You have thought out your responses well and also avoided troll bait. Im pleased your living healthy and casting your vote against cruel conditions for hens by using free range eggs. well done mate.



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 11:27 AM
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There are so many brilliant people on ATS , with so many brilliant insights into why fur trade should be allowed, I won't deem myself to be brilliant enough to respond to such brilliance, but rather leave the rebuttal to those that have achieved so much for humanity.

"The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
Gandhi

"My body has never been defiled by animal flesh."
Ezekiel, Old Testament Prophet

"He who slays an ox is as he that slays a man."
Isaiah 66:3, Old Testament Prophet

"I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way of a whole human being."
Abraham Lincoln, 16th U.S. President

"In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought."
Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel 1978

"Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages."
Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
Leonardo da Vinci, artist and scientist

"If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who deal likewise with their fellow men."
Saint Francis of Assisi

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
Albert Einstein, physicist, Nobel 1921

"Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages."
Thomas Edison, inventor

[edit on 10-12-2004 by Mynaeris]


IBM

posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 02:27 PM
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Mynaeris, you are using the Ghandi quote, which implies all meat eating nations are not great because they eat meat. That is ridiculous, the Romans, the Greeks, the Americas are all meat eaters, and yet the Greatest nations ever to see the face of the earth. Im sorry but Ghandi was wrong on this one. Eating meat is not a judge of a nations greatness. Infrastructure and technological advancement, and social conditions are.

[edit on 10-12-2004 by IBM]



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by IBM
Mynaeris, you are using the Ghandi quote, which implies all meat eating nations are not great because they eat meat. That is ridiculous, the Romans, the Greeks, the Americas are all meat eaters, and yet the Greatest nations ever to see the face of the earth. Im sorry but Ghandi was wrong on this one. Eating meat is not a judge of a nations greatness. Infrastructure and technological advancement, and social conditions are.

[edit on 10-12-2004 by IBM]


You will excuse me if I don't quite see your logic? At no point does the Gandhi quote indicate anything regarding vegetarianism. Gandhi refers to treatment of animals - and the way furs are made is what the thread is about. It is a totally inhumane process and by inference Gandhi states that being inhumane to animals prevents a nation from being a great nation. The problem arises as to what criteria are necessary for a nation to be great? If you wish to be shallow you could speak about power, or financial wealth or technology, but if you measure it in humanity then it can never be great whilst brutalising animals.

Many of the quotes refer to vegetariansim but you don't have to be a vegetarian to protest cruelty to animals.






[edit on 10-12-2004 by Mynaeris]



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