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Brian Goodman, who is chairing the three-day hearing that ends Wednesday, indicated he will likely decide Hinzman's claim early in the new year.
Originally posted by ANOK
@ Sour Grapes
What benefits do you keep talking about?
He deserted, he lost all his benefits as soon as he was marked as AWOL from his post.
The benefit sure wasn't financial.
Training he got is not much use anywhere but in the military.
He could have requested an 'Administrative Discharge' available to all military personal regardless of MOS, Duty, Station, etc. And, yes, they do know their rights. They are made FULLY aware of them when they are going through training. If he is a Paratrooper, that means he has been in the military for at least two years. He has had ample time to choose not to go to Iraq. My comparison to being a cop or firefighter is that you do your job and know that you may lose your life, but you do your job. He is not a prisoner, he still has rights. He chose not to utilize any of the tools he had, rather he chose to be a criminal.
What I meant by apples and oranges was you trying to compare a guy in the military who realizes the war he is in is wrong, and a firefighter putting out fires in his own town/city. How does that compare?
If you read my posts to this thread, then you would know that I do not 'wish him dead', nor do I believe he should be put to death. That's crazy (IMHO)
Nobody has yet been able to explain to me why they think this guy should be dead, other than he broke the law.
We are not arguing the war in this thread. We are debating whether this man is a criminal, in our own opinions. How do you know that I'm for the war? I don't believe I have ever argued 'for' the war anywhere on this site. War is awful. I'm not a soldier for a reason. I could not be a soldier. This guy is a soldier. He knew what he faced. Why join the military if not to go to war?
Can't you'll see this war on terror is bogus.
Originally posted by Yosemite Sam
I actually thought I respected you Druden and felt like there was factual information in what you had to say......fool me once.......i need to go take a shower now...
Originally posted by Yosemite Sam
Or I just see it that way. Whatever, I just appreciate logical articulate acccurate thinkers. Seems I mis-judged you, that's all.
Originally posted by gps777
are willing to put to death one of their own people because he did`nt have the stomach to invade a country that had nothing to do with 9/11
i was sucked in as well at the start of this but WHERE`S THE WMD?????? that your government fed the world,you guys would`nt need a draft
you guys should be demanding better from your government,they are the ones who have made this situation and put all your soldiers lives at risk not this one little guy,
let him come to aussie land we`ll have
durden
Under the 'Laws of War' a soldier has a duty to refuse to commit what could be considered a war crime.
if I understand this correctly and if ruled in this soldier's favor; he could be granted a conscientious objector status
if this is to be considered a war that is known by the soldier to be illegal;
indigo
He has deserted because he did not enlist to kill ciivillians. Is that right or wrong?
anok
I don't care what way you look at it a Human being has the right to choose not to kill if he feels it's wrong.
Originally posted by Nygdan
Originally posted by Durden
if I understand this correctly and if ruled in this soldier's favor; he could be granted a conscientious objector status
He could have, but I think that that status is in reference to draftees, not people who volunteer to fight but then change their mind, but, irregardless, he can't do that now.
Originally posted by Nydgan
Originally posted by Durden
if this is to be considered a war that is known by the soldier to be illegal;
He joined before that, he's already been fighting over there too, and if he felt so anyway then he is still not permitted to desert, flee the country, and make up accusations about it.
Originally posted by Nydgan
Originally posted by Durden
if this war is viewed by the soldier to be illegal then the issue is by definition whether it could be considered that the soldier was part of a war crime.
No. The soldiers opinion on the matter is irrelevant as to his actual status. If he beleives he has been given an illegal/war crime order, in this guys case it would be deployment in iraq all together, then it has to be determined if it was illegal. He doesn't get to decide for himself, or at least a court gets the final say. He can refuse any order on that basis, but it still has to be considered and reviewed by a court.
Originally posted by Durden
I wasn't aware that a conscientious objector status couldn't be granted for volunteers, could you share a source where I can find this substantiated?
Nygdan
I think that that status is in reference to draftees
And if this doesn't only concern draftees, why can't his case still be tried in an effort to reach this outcome?
Originally posted by Nydgan
knew that he would be part of something he would consider to be illegal before he joined?
And how do you mean his accusations are 'made up'?
Originally posted by Nydgan
Deliberately or unitentionally you completely misread me here.
What I meant was that if the soldier took part in something that he considered to be illegal (i.e. a war crime), then this would have to be considered by the court.
Originally posted by Nygdan
In civil law, i think he'd be able to still sue to get out of the contract, but even then it'd only be after being arrested for breaking the contract in the first place and going thru trial for that. As far as military law, i strongly suspect that a deserter doesn't get similiar protections when captured. Indeed, why should they, they deserted.
Originally posted by Nydgan
Originally posted by Durden
knew that he would be part of something he would consider to be illegal before he joined?
Its not that, its that he has already joined, and agreed to not desert.
He's accusing the government of commiting war crimes. It isn't.
Yes, he'd refuse to follow an order that the person giving thought was legal, he'd be brought to court, or, failing that, bring the officer to court, and then the court woudl decide if it was an illegal action or not. Outside of that tho his understanding of the acts legality is irrelevant. Are you saying that the court considers that, since he thought it was illegal, that he was allowed to disobey it?
Originally posted by Durden
I would not say this is a clear cut case; the verdict is still out.
No - why would you even claim I'm saying such a thing?
I would however say that a soldier's understanding as to whether an act is illegal or not is very relevant.
Clearly, a judgment made on a soldier's part of following or not following orders is based on his/her understanding of the laws of war.