Police State ID Card Bill Passes Without Congress Even Reading It

For those who are concerned about more government control, the Police State ID card has passed the house by a 336-75 vote. This is very scary IMO.

December 7, 2004

If you were a member of Congress, would you vote "yes" on a 3,000 page bill that you never had a chance to read? Most reasonable people wouldn't. Most reasonable people would want to read and study legislation before deciding how to vote; especially legislation as monumental as the intelligence reorganization legislation or the so-called 9/11 bill.

And monumental it is. The legislation would greatly affect various intelligence and military agencies and procedures; financial systems; international relations; not to mention civil liberties. In addition, the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the legislation will cost $14.4 billion to implement between 2005 and 2009. That's $14.4 billion on top of the normal annual budgets for the various governmental agencies involved.

capwiz.com...

Now it looks like the bill will pass in the senate as well.

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Senate is expected to pass the 9/11 intelligence reform bill late this afternoon after the House passed the legislation 336-75 last night.

Four months after the Sept. 11 commission urged drastic changes to protect the nation from another terror attack, Congress neared final passage of the far-reaching legislation overhauling the nation's intelligence network and instituting new border and aviation security safeguards.

apnews.myway.com...

Here are some more links related to this story.

www.cnn.com...
www.lewrockwell.com...

I think more government control over our lives is a bad idea. It's not what this country was founded on.

The 9-11 commission, whose recommendations underlie this bill, has called for internal screening points where identification will be demanded. Domestic travel restrictions are the hallmark of authoritarian states, not free nations
www.lewrockwell.com...

Isnt it already illegal to exist in america with a Driver's License or an Identity card? Correct me if im wrong, but if a cop were to walk up to you and ask for identification and you can't provide it, then you will be legally detained until you can prove that you are...you.

Originally posted by Simulacra

The 9-11 commission, whose recommendations underlie this bill, has called for internal screening points where identification will be demanded. Domestic travel restrictions are the hallmark of authoritarian states, not free nations
www.lewrockwell.com...

Isnt it already illegal to exist in america with a Driver's License or an Identity card? Correct me if im wrong, but if a cop were to walk up to you and ask for identification and you can't provide it, then you will be legally detained until you can prove that you are...you.

If it is then I should've been arrested before I got my driver's license. I guess that means anyone who doesn't have an ID, that includes little children, illegally exist here in the states. Poor kids.

I wonder if its going to be possible for average citizens to aquire a copy of the text of the bill, or is it going to go the Domestic Security Enhancement Act route and be classified to restrict access to it? 4000 pages is an awful lot to not read but cast a vote on. This is a nice quote from bush in regards to the bill

"The president is very pleased with House passage. He knows this bill will make America safer

Just like he knew Osama could be caught in Afghanistan, knew that Saddamn had piles of WMD laying around Iraq. Oh yeah, I trust this man who has a background in nothing intelligence or safety related knows whats good for the country. On a side note, anyone who may find a copy of the bill please u2u me, I'm very interested in it.

Originally posted by alternateheaven
I wonder if its going to be possible for average citizens to aquire a copy of the text of the bill, or is it going to go the Domestic Security Enhancement Act route and be classified to restrict access to it? 4000 pages is an awful lot to not read but cast a vote on. This is a nice quote from bush in regards to the bill

Well there is a copy of Patriot Act I on the internet so maybe they will give us a copy of the bill AFTER it is passed. Heck they never give the average citizen a copy of any bill before it is passed. No, no, no. We're supposed to trust the government no matter what they say or do.

"The president is very pleased with House passage. He knows this bill will make America safer

Just like he knew Osama could be caught in Afghanistan, knew that Saddamn had piles of WMD laying around Iraq. Oh yeah, I trust this man who has a background in nothing intelligence or safety related knows whats good for the country.

I agree. Bush wants us to believe that anything he says will happen and is true. Which of course is not.

[edit on 8-12-2004 by mrmulder]

well whatever happens, I don't think American's are going to swallow it so easily....... At least I would like to think so.

The day I see American's surrendering to this, is the day I know the spirit of liberty has died... Along with the founding father's....

Originally posted by mrmulder
If it is then I should've been arrested before I got my driver's license. I guess that means anyone who doesn't have an ID, that includes little children, illegally exist here in the states. Poor kids.

It means that anyone who is a legal adult needs to have an ID. If they are underage then legally the guardian needs to be contacted. But how many six year old terrorist (in the states) do you see running around?

Being forced to carry ID's is nothing new.

[edit on 12/8/2004 by Simulacra]

If the results in the House are a indicator of how the Senate will handle it, its going to breeze throught with maybe 3 people actually looking at it, then on to Dubya's desk where it will get signed into law.

TrueLies > as much as I hate to say it, America doesnt have a choice anymore. Its in the hands of the cabal up on capitol hill, and they do as they please. Liberty and freedom here is fading faster than hair metal did when the 90s hit.

I guess its all a case of 'you get what you give' we havent given a crap for ages, so now we wont have crap when they are done with us.

Originally posted by alternateheaven
I guess its all a case of 'you get what you give' we havent given a crap for ages, so now we wont have crap when they are done with us.

Or "Trust us because we're the government and we know we're right."

Americas is finished, I guess we will be seeing a lot of tourist up here in the near future.

CRS Report for Congress
PDF format
www.fas.org...

HTML Format
64.233.167.104...:VmMti9AI84QJ:www.fas.org/irp/crs/RS21203.pdf+patriot+act+two&hl=en

READ THE BILL
DOMESTIC SECURITY ENHANCEMENT ACT OF 2003 SECTION-BY-SECTION ANALYSIS

EFF Analysis of Patriot II

www.eff.org...

Third Parties can be Compelled by Merely An Administrative Subpoena (secs. 128 & 129).

TIPS is back. Businesses encouraged to volunteer information about you (sec 313).

Instant Police Access to Credit Reports With No Limits or Oversight (sec. 126).

New Devices, Less Privacy. (sec. 124).

DNA Database (secs. 302)


a. AdmDetainee Information Exempt from the Freedom of Information Act (sec. 201).

The Government continues its cynical argument that the basis for refusing to give any public information about its detention policies, even to terrified friends and family, is to protect the privacy of those detained.

a. inistrative Subpoenas Gag Orders (sec. 128 & 129).

Those who are forced to give information to the government pursuant to administrative subpoenas, a list that could include everyone who you come into contact with or do business with, are forbidden from telling you or any other person (except counsel).

Gagging the Environmental Protection Agency from informing us of dangers of chemical releases (sec. 202)

Individual with no connection to anyone else can now be deemed an "agent of a foreign power." to read a more indepth report click here

[edit on 8/12/2004 by Sauron]

If you really want to read the intelligence reform bill, I'm pretty sure this is it. I'm not completely certain though

National Intelligence Reform Act of 2004

I forget which of the founding fathers said this but....."Any country that demands its citizens to carry papers of Identification has become a Police state" or words to that effect. But having said that what is the difference between a National ID and a drivers license?

Originally posted by Amuk
But having said that what is the difference between a National ID and a drivers license?

Besides that drivers licenses vary from state to state, a National ID will most likely be required whereas a drivers liscense is not, unless you want to drive of course.

[edit on 8-12-2004 by UnknownOrigins]

Originally posted by UnknownOrigins
Besides that drivers liscenses vary from state to state, a National ID will most likely be required whereas a drivers liscense is not, unless you want to drive of course.

It may not be legally mandatory to have a DL but for all practical purposes it is necessary. You have to have it to drive and in most cases to get a job, open a bank account, cash a check etc. If you dont have it when a Cop asks for it then expect to go to jail till they CAN ID you. I am not for a national ID I am just saying it isnt much different than a DL

[edit on 8-12-2004 by Amuk]

The day I see American's surrendering to this, is the day I know the spirit of liberty has died... Along with the founding father's....

Here's a reminder of the date...November 2, 2004... That is the date that affirmed that we had then lost control of our national elections system.

I think the next (short and simple) law that should be passed is that every bill has to be read by each congressperson or their staff before voting.

To not read a bill before passage is either irresponsible or a tactic of deceit.

3000 pages and 14 pound bills are used by lobbyists and their crooked congress connections to wedge in any number of pork-barrel, Big-brother moves, etc by burying them in the reams of pages in a bill. Then having the out of saying they didn't read it! Makes me want to nuke Washington.
.

Originally posted by Gazrok

The day I see American's surrendering to this, is the day I know the spirit of liberty has died... Along with the founding father's....

Here's a reminder of the date...November 2, 2004...

That is the date that affirmed that we had then lost control of our national elections system.

What about the 2000 elections? From what I recall congress gave Bush the Presidency. Not the Election System.

If they were sos eager to digitize the election, why don't they make the congressional bills electronic. Then they can hack in an put in whatever they want. Embedded chips will follow the ID cards, then civil upheaval starts, hopefully it stays in the courts and off of the streets.