World Health Organization contradicts CDC, Confirms Ebola Can Spread Via Indirect Contact

a reply to: netwarrior

just quoting the book brother...indeed 5 of them infecting someone is scary as heck...a sneeze has to be able to blow one clear across a room and if its only so few needed to infect...that is #ed up haha

a reply to: butcherguy

I am also new to ATS. Glad for your comments. I see already that it can get rough in here!

a reply to: Raxoxane

But the virus itself only lasts for a few hours on surfaces because it isn't built like cold or flu viruses. So the window of infection is narrow. It fluctuates based on where the surface is - dark, sunny; moist, dry, etc.

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: netwarrior

just quoting the book brother...indeed 5 of them infecting someone is scary as heck...a sneeze has to be able to blow one clear across a room and if its only so few needed to infect...that is #ed up haha

Indeed. What you are describing is something traditionally airborne like a cold or flu.

You can think that the true extent of the plague is being covered up all you want, and for all we know, it might be, but if this were airborne like you want to believe it is ... then there would be no covering it up. We all would have been up to our eyeballs in Ebola by now. It wouldn't now be just starting to make in-roads into Europe and the US and other places.

We're talking worldwide charnel house if it was as contagious as you are wanting to make out.

a reply to: ketsuko

What? I think you misread my post...I was quoting a book in which it can spread through droplets...this isn't my opinion this is from people who work with it. In the book they mention that it takes a very small amount of the virus to become infected. Another poster mentioned it took approximately 5 viruses. I am not saying its that contagious but it is a fact that it can spread through aerosols.

The "airborne" part people are referring to I believe means it can travel through the air while being dry...there is nothing at all that proves that.

So we agree.

No less than 300 mutations found in current Ebola strain. How effective would vaccinations be, at this point, given that vaccinations currently being developed are based off of the Zaire strain, prior to mutations?

www.vox.com...

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

All right, and that kind of transmission still requires what is called direct contact - you have to be very close to someone. And it's not conclusive that it can be spread that way with humans. It's theoretically possible.

The proof of airborne spread was with pigs who display symptoms as a respiratory disease when they get it. Humans don't, not primarily.

So, it would be very, very uncommon for it to spread this way assuming it can happen.

a reply to: bludragin

It really depends on what the vaccine is being developed to target and how it will target it. It's complicated.

Hi ketsuko-still,even if the window is narrow,it takes only one or 2 people to come into contact with that surface during that time frame-as a mother,that is a concern to me.As I said in another post a while ago,little kids seem to be unable to stop touching things everywhere they go-and the lil hands are always going back to the face,in the mouth,into the nose,etc.

This i observed during flu seasons in the past,also.So yes,it is still a concern to me,especially living on the African continent,albeit the Southernmost country,and with my government having banned travellers from high-risk countries since August.

I had an amusing moment today in town,I had to go to a public ladies' room while in town.So I'm elbowing the doorhandle open ,holding my hands up like a surgeon after scrubbing before surgery.As I elbow the door open,another lady looks relieved,because she had just washed her hands,and was about to awkwardly try and open the door from inside when I entered,and we looked at each other standing there like 2 surgeons about to be gloved up,and I said:"Being more careful these days, with the ebolas going around"+she laughed and said:"I know,I was just thinking the same thing." So we had a bit of a giggle about that,but I can see that here in South Africa,some people are starting to be more conscious when out in public.

Well one cannot live in fear,that's no life at all-i'm just being a bit more aware of what I touch these days,when out in public.a reply to: ketsuko

a reply to: ketsuko

The book mentions monkeys....but let me throw this out at ya....

first i agree with you but 1500 have died from ebola...approximately...before this outbreak...that is over like 30 years....

now in 3 months? over 3000 have died.

Is that not reason to wonder if this strand is a bit more contagious? Or do we chalk it up to just a coincidence in a poor area?

To me that is why it is a big deal...the numbers are higher than ever. Doesn't mean we are all gonna die but it is very interesting and something to watch!

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

This current Ebola strain has undergone at least 300 mutations (from previous Zaire strain), as confirmed by research conducted on Ebola patients this past spring and summer. So it is difficult to say just how the virus might evolve / transform over time, particularly now that it is spreading in highly populated urban areas. More info here: ebola.thelancet.com...

Here you go:

Infectious dose:

Flu: 100-1000
Measles: 100 - 12500

Ebola: 1-10

These are the number of virus particles it takes to infect an individual.

Direct contact is NOT the only means of transmission it most certainly CAN be transmitted by indirect contact:

Overall, Ebola virus socio-ecology systems have shown to be linked by direct and indirect transmission through contact with objects from patients.

For example, the blood or secretions of an infected person or objects that have been contaminated with infected secretions can reach humans from a variety of hosts/sources

Need of surveillance response systems to combat Ebola outbreaks and other emerging infectious diseases in African countries

And

Case identification and detection, contact tracing and patient clinical assessment and management are not the object of this Guidance document and instructions can be found elsewhere.1, 2 However, regarding IPC measures to be implemented during interviews for contact tracing and case finding in the community, the following principles should be kept in mind: 1) shaking hands should be avoided;

2) a distance of more than one metre (about 3 feet) should be maintained between interviewer and interviewee;

3) PPE is not required if this distance is assured and when interviewing asymptomatic individuals (e.g., neither fever, nor diarrhoea, bleeding or vomiting) and provided there will be no contact with the environment, potentially contaminated with a possible/probable case;

4) it is advisable to provide workers undertaking contact tracing and case finding in the community with alcohol-based hand rub solutions and instructions to appropriately perform hand hygiene.

Interim Infection Prevention and Control Guidance for Care of Patients with Suspected or Confirmed Filovirus Haemorrhagic Fever in Health-Care Settings, with Focus on Ebola
August 2014

And

Infection, although occurring indirectly through body fluids, is strongly suspected to occur through airborne as well as skin contact transmission.

Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever (EHF): Mechanism of Transmission and Pathogenicity

Mosquitos and other animals:

The susceptibility to infection of arthropod taxa can be assessed by virus replication after intrathoracic inoculation of virus. Turell et al. [8] reported that EBO virus, subtype Reston (EBO-R), failed to replicate in Culex or Aedes mosquitoes and in Ornithodoros ticks.

However, Kunz et al. [9] previously reported that MBG virus could persist in Aedes mosquitoes for 3 weeks or more, indicating that certain arthropods exposed towasp.Altho the virus could be transient or persistent carriers of infection.

Many potential blood-feeding arthropod vectors (phlebotomine flies, culicoids, ixodid ticks, mites, fleas, and wingless flies associated with bats) have not been tested by experimental inoculation.

The susceptibility of insects used by humans or wild vertebrate reservoir hosts as a source of food (including termites, moths, and larvae [grubs]) also has not been explored. As will be discussed below, there has been recent speculation about the possible role of leafhoppers in filovirus ecology; therefore, experimental studies should determine the host range of EBO virus for plant-feeding bugs.

So mixed results of very incomplete studies. All subtypes need to be tested against all possible vectors present within the potentially affected area(s).

EBO and MBG viruses are similar in genome organization and have extensive sequence homology but do not share cross-reactive antigens [33]. The ecology of EBO viruses is certainly more complex than that of MBG. Operational hypotheses on the ecology of EBO virus must take into account the factors discussed below.

Geographic distribution:

At least 4 genetic subtypes of EBO virus have been recognized: Zaire (EBO-Z), Côte d'Ivoire (EBO-CI) [34], Sudan (EBO-S) [35], and EBO-R. EBO-R was recovered in the Philippines [36] and from monkeys imported from the Philippines to the United States and Europe.

...

The occurrence of a distinct EBO virus subtype in the Philippines has important implications for filovirus ecology, since it implies that EBO group viruses may have been carried by migratory hosts at some point in their evolution.

Ecology of Marburg and Ebola Viruses: Speculations and Directions for Future Research

There are other animal hosts as well, it is respiratory in pigs but it is asymtpomatic in dogs; the kinds of dogs that eat vomit that may or may not have been spewed all over a Texas sidewalk by a person infected with one of the most dangerous pathogens known to man before being power washed into storm drains.

Although dogs are susceptible to Ebola, the CDC concluded that "infected dogs are asymptomatic", meaning that they do not develop symptoms.

During the early phase of their infection, however, they can spread the disease to humans and other animals through licking, biting, urine, and feces.

However, the good news is that once the virus is cleared from the dog it is no longer contagious. Dogs do not die from Ebola infections.

source

This gives lie to the White House graphic:

We found EBOV to be shed in a wide variety of bodily fluids during the acute phase of illness, including saliva, breast milk, stool, and tears. In most cases, the infected bodily fluid was not visibly contaminated by blood. Of particular concern is the frequent presence of EBOV in saliva early during the course of disease, where it could be transmitted to others through intimate contact and from sharing food,especially given the custom, in many parts of Africa, of eating with the hands from a common plate.

source

I noted that in the UK cameron has done on os his notorious U turns on Ebola. Initially he said it was not necessary to test people coming into the UK from areas affected in Africa. Yesterday on his little twinkle toes cos lots of vips travel on planes he has decided it is now necessary to screen at airports and this will be done.

This guy pirouettes so fast you might get him reaching Australia on one of his famous u turns.

Something has made him change his mind quickly so I expect its the WHO information. Isn't it funny how politicians seem to all be stamped with 'No Common Sense' on their brains once they enter TPTB swamp.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: bludragin
The World Health Organization has issued a bulletin which confirms that Ebola can spread via indirect contact with contaminated surfaces and aerosolized droplets produced from coughing or sneezing.

"...wet and bigger droplets from a heavily infected individual, who has respiratory symptoms caused by other conditions or who vomits violently, could transmit the virus -- over a short distance -- to another nearby person," says a W.H.O. bulletin released this week. [1] "This could happen when virus-laden heavy droplets are directly propelled, by coughing or sneezing..."

That same bulletin also says, "The Ebola virus can also be transmitted indirectly, by contact with previously contaminated surfaces and objects."

In other words, the WHO just confirmed what the CDC says is impossible -- that Ebola can be acquired by touching a contaminated surface.

www.naturalnews.com...

And the mutation begins.....could be that it was not able to at the start, but with so many fresh bodies to enter it has now mutated to the point that it can live a bit longer outside the human body. This doesn't bode well if it is able to mutate that quickly.....

Contagion...the end of the world.....

I don't think it's about mutation per se, which is entirely still possible of course, but i don't think virus mutation is the issue here.

All sorts of viruses are indeed transferable through contaminated surfaces, some are pretty short lived in terms of how long the virus can remain infectious for regardless of the type of surface it is on, some others are more hardy and can survive for a very long time, except on certain materials like Nobel metals, Silver, Gold, Platinum and so on..which will kill pretty much any virus if it lands on it however long it would last on other more hospitable surfaces.

Ebola, from what i know, is one of the more fairly short lived viruses when not residing in a host organism (person or animal), which means that it doesn't stay virulently infectious when coughed or sneezed (or dripped or oozed) onto a surface like plastic, clothing, mattresses, wipes or anything else...but not infectious for long, doesn't equal not infectious.

Ebola on surfaces can indeed infect other people, especially those who are working with infected people, or who come into contact with surfaces soon after the virus is deposited onto them.

Examples are everyday surfaces like door knobs and handles, telephone handsets, earphones, keypads on entry systems and credit card pin code keypads in stores and ATMs, and any other surface lots of people come into regular contact with.

Ebola may be short lived on surfaces, but short lived is still very much a potential infection route, so WHO, on this occasion at least is correct, and the CDC are not.

All pretty academic if the virus mutates to allow it to be airborne though.

Has anyone else been watching the stock market in regards to ebola? From the first moment it was discussed stocks like TKMR made huge swings up than down, up than down sometimes as high as 30%. Everytime good news about the vaccine is brought to the news up it goes, than someone dies......down it goes. Than another country hit by the disease and up it goes than someone dies down it goes.

Also interesting to note the company whom patented the vaccine ZMapp hasn't really moved at all in fact it's been going down but only worth a mere 1.35ish, whereas TKMR (Monsanto) makes huges swings because they have the capacity to reproduce the DoD patented vaccine. Shell company for the DoD anyone?

I'll take my tinfoil hat off now only to add......if I could control what stories were being shown on the news in regards to this issue, imagine the money I could make.

Just saying.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

I have also been tracking these stocks, and can confirm your observations. We are such a reactionary culture - Especially when there is money to be made.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Excellent grouping of info, Jaded - Much appreciated. I think we can all agree at this point that contaminated surfaces pose more of a threat than the CDC wishes to acknowledge.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical
Thank You for the info you shared.

Goes back to the point that someone else shared in a different forum - that flies can be vectors of EBOV. Especially in Africa, where hordes of flies are always around everybody. Not that the fly itself has EBOV, just that EBOV lives on their little feet and mouths.

The WHO alert indicates the virus is still short of the usual definition of airborne. It is learning to live longer outside the host, and that does lead to airborne infection. Some believe the virus is short-lived on exposed surfaces. That depends entirely on the surface and the conditions surrounding it. If the surface is 95F and damp the virus may live quite a long time. If the surface is porous under the same conditions the virus will live even longer. On dry polished metal in direct sunlight I don't think the virus would live very long. But you go check it out and let me know three weeks from now if I was right...then I will go take a look...

Its not airborne, if it were airborne then it would be on every continent by now causing huge numbers of infections.. remember this has been circulating for the entire year. A lot of the miss-communication comes from poor media reporting and also the difficulty of stating certainties in science. No credible microbiologist is ever going to state with any certainty that Ebola will never mutate to transmit through anther medium however based on all current data its not airborne and is unlikely to change. Being contagious from a surface haws been known for a long time and is not new.
I dont know how to embed a picture but this helps to how the difference between droplets through the air and airborne
2.bp.blogspot.com...