Ebola Disaster in Spain

originally posted by: Bluesma

originally posted by: NavyDoc

Based on what though? Equity? That was stated as on of the criteria in every one of those opinions. If everybody is equally getting crappy care, that is an indictment, not something to strive for. Technologically, quality of care, quality control, we lead the pack.

You seem to be confused...
Quality of care is the main point. Looked at from many angles. Equity was just one of the things measured. Here's 2010, (though only a few countries were included in this one, it still shows that crappy care in not "elsewhere", that's a lie.

"Effective" based on what? Better for colds but lower cancer survival rates? Which is more effective?
"Timely" based on what? Get in for a cold quickly but wait months for an MRI? Which is more "timely?"
Do they take into account the cost of our litigation? Regulation? Only in the US can you sue docs for millions of dollars.

That we have crappy care in the US is the lie and the agenda of the leftists who do such "studies." They formulate the questions and answers to justify their already preconceived notions.

originally posted by: unity100

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: unity100

Yeah I agree.

You may take longer to get your meds or treatment, BUT you still get it and a high level of quality care. Sadly, those professionals working now will retire and be replaced with what exactly? Medical students who wont know the work arounds for being understaffed or being under funded?

Things ARE getting worse. That is still true. IMO healthcare and education should not have been considered for cuts as part of the austerity measures. There is no better way for a country to recover than by promoting good health and education. This whole fiasco is a good sign of that.

I dont think Spain will ever reach the level of medical vanguard it once held. That generation is almost all dead or retired. What, are the socialists going to rebuild what the private sector built? I dont think so.

I dont trust the socialists at this point (PSOE), because they had been acting as if they were right wing in their last term. they can easily push privatization with that mindset.

i think the only way to correct the political spectrum, which had gone TOO FAR right, is to go for far left. i think izquierda unida, who are dubbed 'radical left' by right wing media but who are hilariously merely 'left' in today's political spectrum, can fix the problem. and when the political spectrum comes to balance and there is a left and right again (not right vs extreme right), then a center left party can keep things going.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: unity100

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: JG1993
a reply to: NavyDoc

The numbers are based on WHO reports. Lmao. It's not the opinion that is relevant? It's the fact that we spend more than anyone and we are still not even in the top 30. Costa Rica is rated better.

www.who.int...
www.who.int...
www.commonwealthfund.org...

Based on what though? Equity? That was stated as on of the criteria in every one of those opinions. If everybody is equally getting crappy care, that is an indictment, not something to strive for. Technologically, quality of care, quality control, we lead the pack. Bureaucracy and expense, we have problems, certainly.

this is what i dont understand about you americans.

"Everybody is getting crappy care"

Even with the crippled healthcare in spain, there is NO such thing. The level of service you get, the professionalism and attention is quite good in all respects. Being underfunded does not change that.

You are someone who has seen europe. it is understandable if you were someone from usa who has never seen abroad, but you did.

how can you STILL propagate a totally incorrect absurd propaganda.

I never said that everyone else got "Crappy" care, I was just refuting the obvious anti-US and agenda filled propaganda. I said "equity" is not a good measure because everyone can still be getting crappy care but you would have a lot of "equity"--just bad equity.

I found Charles III hospital quite adequate, the physicians knowledgeable and professional, and their treatment of my travelling companion exactly the same I would have done myself. Spain is not a 3rd world country by any stretch.

im at a loss to see how socialized healthcare, social services, public education can be 'anti-US'.

Usa was LEADING the world in these back in 1950s, in its golden age.

true, spain is not a 3rd world country yet. but looking from what neoliberalization done to countries like mexico, it may become one if the way things are going is not prevented.

see, 1-2 years of defunding, privatization, cuts, and this thing happened.

No, the low ranking of the US based on things like "equity" is the anti-US part. Healthcare in the US has been maligned and lied about for quite a while as part of a larger agenda.

As I said before, defending our healthcare is not necessarily an attack on your healthcare. Like I said, I was perfectly happy with the healthcare in Madrid I experienced.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Bluesma

originally posted by: NavyDoc

Based on what though? Equity? That was stated as on of the criteria in every one of those opinions. If everybody is equally getting crappy care, that is an indictment, not something to strive for. Technologically, quality of care, quality control, we lead the pack.

You seem to be confused...
Quality of care is the main point. Looked at from many angles. Equity was just one of the things measured. Here's 2010, (though only a few countries were included in this one, it still shows that crappy care in not "elsewhere", that's a lie.

"Effective" based on what? Better for colds but lower cancer survival rates? Which is more effective?
"Timely" based on what? Get in for a cold quickly but wait months for an MRI? Which is more "timely?"
Do they take into account the cost of our litigation? Regulation? Only in the US can you sue docs for millions of dollars.

That we have crappy care in the US is the lie and the agenda of the leftists who do such "studies." They formulate the questions and answers to justify their already preconceived notions.

Im living in spain, even i know that they are charging $3000 to $7000 on average for a night's stay at the hospitals around usa. and make you pay $800 for $4 worth of salinized water. without touching concepts like how hospitals try to squeeze out as much as possible from your insurance - its for profit, after all -, how your insurance supplier can try to bail out on you when the time to pay comes, how hard for you to get any service if you dont have one and no money and whatnot.

frankly, mate, your 'leftists this', 'leftists that' approach makes your arguments much less credible than they may be.

however, this is a long talk, which is not directly relevant to this topic. so ill digress.

rt.com...

ebola case in macedonia.

macedonian government acted much faster and precisely than spanish government apparently:

A Briton with symptoms of Ebola has died in Macedonia, local authorities said. The hotel in Skopje where he was staying has been sealed off, while another Briton and hotel staff are being kept inside to prevent possible spreading of infection.

but what is QUITE alarming is this :

A Macedonian government spokesman told the BBC that a companion of the late Briton told the local authorities that they had travelled straight from the UK and had not visited countries affected by Ebola

originally posted by: unity100
rt.com...

ebola case in macedonia.

macedonian government acted much faster and precisely than spanish government apparently:

A Briton with symptoms of Ebola has died in Macedonia, local authorities said. The hotel in Skopje where he was staying has been sealed off, while another Briton and hotel staff are being kept inside to prevent possible spreading of infection.

but what is QUITE alarming is this :

A Macedonian government spokesman told the BBC that a companion of the late Briton told the local authorities that they had travelled straight from the UK and had not visited countries affected by Ebola

That is concerning. We know of one strain, "Ebola Reston" that was airborne, but thankfully did not jump from primates to humans. I'm getting a bit worried that this particular strain might be making, or has made, that jump to airborne.

I was quite pleased with my interaction with my medical colleagues in Spain, I think they are quite qualified. The problem is, as they said in medical school, when you hear hoofbeats don't automatically assume it's a zebra, it's probably just a regular old horse. However, zebras do happen. I just think they, like the docs in Texas, did not have Ebola automatically rise to the front of their brains because this is (or was until now) a very rare disease from far away. I don't blame the Spanish docs a bit. They got blindsided.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Blindsided? Didn't they fly the two priests back to Spain to a presumably prepared hospital?

How is that blindsided? Maybe I'm misreading this.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: NavyDoc

Blindsided? Didn't they fly the two priests back to Spain to a presumably prepared hospital?

How is that blindsided? Maybe I'm misreading this.

exactly.

its still not doctors' or nurses' fault though. its the right wing government's fault. they were catering to voters with that move.

i posted unconfirmed news.. sorry .. i had to delete it.

teresa didnt die. she is in heavy condition, but it was told that the virus deadliness went down.

turkish ebola case is still suspected.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: NavyDoc

Blindsided? Didn't they fly the two priests back to Spain to a presumably prepared hospital?

How is that blindsided? Maybe I'm misreading this.

Did they come with a prediagnised case of Ebola or just "sick." Docs in every city in all the world see sick travelers every day. You don't automatically assume a rare disease.

originally posted by: unity100

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: NavyDoc

Blindsided? Didn't they fly the two priests back to Spain to a presumably prepared hospital?

How is that blindsided? Maybe I'm misreading this.

exactly.

its still not doctors' or nurses' fault though. its the right wing government's fault. they were catering to voters with that move.

Exactly how is it the "right wing givernment's" fault. Was there a political officer standing by in the exam room? Spanish doctors are very good. They are just human like the rest of us. I respect my collegues in Spain. They know what they are doing.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: NavyDoc

Blindsided? Didn't they fly the two priests back to Spain to a presumably prepared hospital?

How is that blindsided? Maybe I'm misreading this.

Did they come with a prediagnised case of Ebola or just "sick." Docs in every city in all the world see sick travelers every day. You don't automatically assume a rare disease.

they were close to dying from ebola when they were brought back. experts were saying they would die in a week or two even with treatment.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: unity100

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: NavyDoc

Blindsided? Didn't they fly the two priests back to Spain to a presumably prepared hospital?

How is that blindsided? Maybe I'm misreading this.

exactly.

its still not doctors' or nurses' fault though. its the right wing government's fault. they were catering to voters with that move.

Exactly how is it the "right wing givernment's" fault. Was there a political officer standing by in the exam room? Spanish doctors are very good. They are just human like the rest of us. I respect my collegues in Spain. They know what they are doing.

Right wing government decided to bring the missionaries despite they were to die in one or two weeks, in order to cater to religious voters. The missionaries belonged to the biggest religious order of spain. It was a political move done with much fanfare in order to cater to voters - highly televised by right wing tvs supporting the government, newspapers and pundits.

It didnt work out. Missionaries died, now there is ebola in spain.

But this was talked about before in the thread and i explained this. it seems you did not follow the thread accurately.

a reply to: NavyDoc

The flew both priests to Spain already diagnosed. Just as they did all the patients they brought into the U.S. (to Emory and Nebraska Medical Center).

originally posted by: NavyDoc

That we have crappy care in the US is the lie and the agenda of the leftists who do such "studies."

These studies were not done by leftists.... and I have lived half my life in the US, the other half in Europe, and I used to speak as you. I was sure the medical care was the best in the US. I had been brainwashed.

After many years here, giving three births, having injuries and operations, family members with serious treatments for cancer, I was forced to acknowledge that never had I witnessed care as quick and of as good quality in the states, as it is here.

But the provocative lefty comments are just leading off subject, so I'll not continue down that path further.

www.bbc.com...[/exnews

Meanwhile in Spain, seven more people are being monitored in hospital for Ebola.

They include two hairdressers who came into contact with Teresa Romero, a Madrid nurse who looked after an Ebola patient who had been repatriated from West Africa.

At least they are monitoring people in the hospital in Spain instead of whisking them off to an unknown location.

The nurse got well and got out of hospital. And immediately in her first speech to press, she told that government has lied about her. She never said she touched her forehead with her hand, this or that. She also told that no one helped her, he cleaned the room of the missionary alone, with no one helping her, no help, info, training given for the occasion.

so basically there was no human error. it was all government's neglect and results of privatization, just like how the medical associations were saying.