Ebola, inside information

a reply to: raymundoko

not entirely. prior to the 2009 paper on norovirus science had a different view on the transmission of noro. And prior to Racaniello's research the world had a different view on the transmission of polio.

those two things are the basis of Balogs comments (im guessing). Perhaps the same will be the case for ebola.

but its irrelevant at this point. there will be no definitive answers about this particular outbreak until its already run its course.

@raymundoko, first off I'd like to say thanks for keeping it civil and on target. That's not always easy to find here anymore. So with that said, I think you are correct in the sence as to what the clinical definition of airborne is. I just feel that what we're really dealing with here comes down to semantics. Case in point is this opinion piece I found on Reuters today penned by Dr. Celine Gounder. She specifically addresses this breakdown in terminology:

Read this to get a better understanding of how Ebola spreads

...
No virus that causes disease in humans has ever been known to mutate to change its mode of transmission. This means it is highly unlikely that Ebola has mutated to become airborne. It is, however, droplet-borne — and the distinction between the two is crucial.

Doctors mean something different from the public when they talk about a disease being airborne. To them, it means that the disease-causing germs are so small they can live dry, floating in the air for extended periods, thus capable of traveling from person to person at a distance. When inhaled, airborne germs make their way deep into the lungs.

...
When someone coughs, sneezes or, in the case of Ebola, vomits, he releases a spray of secretions into the air. This makes the infection droplet-borne. Some hospital procedures, like placing a breathing tube down a patient’s air passage to help him breathe, may do the same thing.

Droplet-borne germs can travel in these secretions to infect someone a few feet away, often through the eyes, nose or mouth. This may not seem like an important difference, but it has a big impact on how easily a germ spreads. Airborne diseases are far more transmittable than droplet-borne ones.

...
As we rule out Ebola being airborne, the droplet-borne risk of Ebola must be addressed. Most important, those on the frontlines—especially nurses and doctors—should be provided with the necessary training and personal protective equipment to ensure that there are no more transmissions within hospitals.

So, raymundoko, I would say you are correct that this ebola strain is not airborne, but is sure as hell appears quite capable of spreading very well via aerosolized droplets.

a reply to: raymundoko

no, i wasn't confusing anything. it was something i had open in another tab on my computer that the WHO just released today. and yes, that's in third world countries because that's where pretty much all of ebola is . i get what you are saying though. however, i just read it in an hour old article.

www.nytimes.com...

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: MystikMushroom

I've maintained that one of the more dangerous possibilities from mutation is the ability to transmit before symptoms become readily apparent.

I agree this looks and sounds like confirmation bias.

I'd be right there with you on this, and when/if this is brought under control, I will eat appropriate crow.

With how dangerous this virus is, it is completely discounting possibilities like this that will give to the window it needs to take us out.

This was something I thought everyone knew? my whole life I was told(by my doctors) virus's can be spread before becoming symptomatic
this is why the flu is spread so quickly.Is the cdc really trying to hide this from the public?
Anyway thank you for bringing this up everyone should know this important information...I also think this is airborne as well
www.cdc.gov...

a reply to: TWILITE22

Ebola is not the flu and not even close to the same type of virus.

a reply to: raymundoko
Today the CDC guy stated in a press conference, in hindsight he regretted not getting a team to Dallas once they knew there was an ebola case there. So I have to ask you why he would say this , if as you claim they aren't tasked with "controlling" infectious diseases?

source

CDC director Dr. Tom Frieden said on Tuesday — the nation’s health protection agency should have stepped in and taken control when the country’s first Ebola case emerged in Dallas. “Getting it right is really, really important because the stakes are so high,” Frieden said during a news conference. “We could have sent a more robust hospital infection control team and been more hands on with the hospital from Day One about how this should be managed.”

From now on, Frieden said, the CDC will rush a team of infectious disease specialists to assist U.S. hospitals that confirm having a case of the deadly Ebola virus.

“We will put a team on the ground within hours with some of the world's leading experts in how to take care of and protect health care workers from Ebola infection,” Frieden said. “I wish we had put a team like this on the ground the day the first patient was diagnosed.”

Instead, the CDC repeatedly assured the public that Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas could aptly treat the first case of Ebola that was diagnosed in the United States.

a reply to: raymundoko

Well many are now questioning if it's airborne because that nurse on Dallas was in a full hazmat suit. It's said she is very meticulous about germs and infections. Yet she got it.

I also heard on CNN today, from anonymous nurses working there, that others were treating duncan with exposed skin, their necks weren't covered and they just got told to wind hospital tape around their necks! Not only that, they had no idea what to do with his waste and just left it in his room, piled to the ceiling, I'm assuming this was diapers and vomit pails and wipes. Also, if this is not bad enough, they took blood samples from him and did not transport the tubes of blood safely, just put them on the blood cart that gets pushed around the hospital. These nurses fear his blood may have contaminated numerous others now.

As well as all this, a nurse was insisting he get isolated ASAP and the doctor in chsrge said no need, no. He was left amongst other patients, not being isolated soon enough.

So you are right about the hospital being held accountable, but wrong on the CDC not stepping in soon as.

I will try to find a video of the above allegations.

[ETA
Can't find a video, but you can watch it yourself later on anderson cooper on CNN

Excerpt:

"The guidelines were constantly changing" and "there were no protocols" at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas as the hospital treated a patient with Ebola, the president of National Nurses United said in a statement on Tuesday. Protective gear nurses wore at first left their necks exposed, union co-president Deborah Burger said, citing information she said came from nurses at the hospital. The union said it would not identify the nurses it spoke with in order to protect them from possible retaliation.

a reply to: violet

i watched what you watched and i think you misheard a bit of that. she didn't say she wore a full hazmat suit. it was gloves, gown, mask, and face shield (possibly nothing on the shoes but that was not confirmed), so the back of her neck was exposed.

and yeah, the blood vials went in the regular route for testing instead of being separate. those vials were actually sent to my city for testing (that part wasn't in that segment i just happen to know that from local stuff) and that's what the anon nurse statements were talking about. the blood vials should never have left the building and should never have been transported with other vials. they should have been isolated but weren't. i really doubt they contaminated anything but still... bad move.

as for the piles of hazardous waste... they didn't specify exactly what all that was but they did say it was a BIG pile.

that hospital is a disaster. it boggles my mind. i'm a lifelong texan and this disappoints me but doesn't really surprise me. i'm sure that hospital arrogantly thought "ebola won't come here in a million years" and when it did they still thought "oh, this is the US. it will be fine". the other thought was "how can we cut corners so it won't cost too much but i (the doc) still get paid an insane amount?"

a reply to: pasiphae
Consider the source, but Sanjay Gupta claimed on Anderson Cooper 360 tonight that some vials went into the pneumatic tube system. Maybe a CBC or blood chem?

I personally wonder what will happen to the dialysis machine. Can it be sanitized? Would I want a loved
one to receive dialysis at that hospital? What about the respirator? Contaminated forever?

Got a message from our friend who just left Dallas with his family telling me to watch that CNN interview. He maintains that the truth is finally coming out, as we all suspected it would. Even though his daughter didn't work at that particular hospital, she worked with folks who do. She was told that the blood was not quarantined. That and the fact that they weren't in hazmat suits were the things that tipped the scale for her.
She knows that her hospital isn't any better or worse than Presbyterian in preparedness for a Level 4 bio-hazard. Her kids lost their Dad three years ago and she has no desire to leave them orphans so she left immediately upon learning what had happened.
There is a tremendous amount of fear in the medical community in Dallas. Please continue to lift prayers for those who are dealing with this tragedy.

a reply to: violet

The CDC has no control over hospitals...again they do research and have a kick ass facility. No matter what you think, the CDC has no jurisdiction over how hospitals operate. You're arguing a non point.

They're saying that they could have done more by bringing their own resources to the hospital.

a reply to: violet

She wasn't in a full haz suit, just protective gear, and she took it off herself....I watched the whole thing. (On CNN)

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

I'm considering starting a Change.org Petition to remove Dr Frieden. Your thoughts? My post on it here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: pasiphae
Ok, well I watched anderson Cooper about the nurses report and Erin Burnett out front about what the infected nurse wore. Not entirely sure which show it was on. Had it on for hours. Some was also repeated with omitted parts on don lemon show. I can't find a text version of the hazmat suit being worn to quote for you. Couldn't find a video when I posted either. I see now the only version CNN has for text is what you said, mask, gown, gloves. The neck being exposed on this nurse was not mentioned, the necks exposed were the nurses speaking out regarding other nurses on Anderson Cooper with sunjay Gupta.
I know what I heard hazmat suit several times with one other nurse mentioning meticulous about her akways washing Her hands etc, not her best friend on Anderson Cooper show saying meticulous about being organized. They ( those on the show) went on how could she have been infected in a hazmat suit. I know what I heard because I was shocked by it. Perhaps they edited it since then. Or did you watch the live out front show as well?


Anyways I stand by what my ears heard.





Do you stand by what you said about watching the same show???

originally posted by: bludragin
a reply to: jadedANDcynical

I'm considering starting a Change.org Petition to remove Dr Frieden. Your thoughts? My post on it here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I was just thinking about this guy is being fired any time. I can't sign, I'm in Canada or I would.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: violet

She wasn't in a full haz suit, just protective gear, and she took it off herself....I watched the whole thing. (On CNN)

I'm sure you would say that Dr. Friedan.

I must be having auditory hallucinations then. I had my TV on pause for 15 minutes. I was on delay. Doubt if they edit things I would still get the original. It's like recording it, I think.

ETA

Ok I found the video. Like I said it was on CNN
nurse pham wore hazmat suit

In case the video vanishes, here's a screenshot




Why must you pretend you watched it when I did? Nice try Friedman

a reply to: violet

CDC director Dr. Tom Frieden said on Tuesday — the nation’s health protection agency should have stepped in and taken control when the country’s first Ebola case emerged in Dallas.

Ya think, Dr. Freaky? Ya THINK???

a reply to: raymundoko
Yes they admit they #ed up. Proves my point they are in control.

originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: violet

CDC director Dr. Tom Frieden said on Tuesday — the nation’s health protection agency should have stepped in and taken control when the country’s first Ebola case emerged in Dallas.

Ya think, Dr. Freaky? Ya THINK???

The lies are stacking up. The US is going to be looking for a new CDC director in the next week is my prediction. He is going to step down and fade away.


Truth be told the orders are coming from much higher up. He is not in charge of issuing a travel ban. Once again this president could have made history as being the strong honest leader during hard times. Are the people giving this poor man advice so ignorant and arrogant they can not even see the simple things. He should hire new people to help him out and protect what little legacy he has left.