Nazi America has risen

lol, indigo, aight. Just so you know indigo, I got a u2u with banshee asking him for advise, as well as of the staff, if I would be allowed to start a certain thread that deals with action against certain things such as this. You ain't gotta convice me of nothing, man. I know the war is wrong. I hate it. I hate the isolated incidents of atrocities. Just as bad as you. But look, brotha, I am NOT gonna just sit here, with you calling ME a Nazi, and take it. Sorry. Please, Indigo, next time, for God's sakes, just report on the story. I know you are mad. I am too. The last thing I expected out of you was to lose it like that. It is going too far.

Vision: Indigo child, in Iraq, RPG just detroyed his Humvee, 2 of his buddies blown apart, more wounded all around...Screams of horror....Some civilians approaching the convoy, orders to shoot come from the commander, not knowing if they have bombs, more rpg's or what. Indigo turns around "sorry sir, I will not. It is immoral. It is against international law." 400 m16's point at his head..." WHAT did you say boy?"

Just some parting thoughts for ya Indigo. I really have nothing more to say.

And btw, byrd, I appreciate your in depth analysis, which was very good , but are you implying that I'm a liberal? I didn't quite catch what you meant at the very top of that one post... Just so you know, while I may have liberal tendencies from time to time, I am not affiliated with any party, and have conservative and moral values as well. I just want our friggin country back, that's it.

Major source on this topic, based on a World Socialist Web Site article: "We're committing genocide in Iraq."
We're Committing Genocide In Iraq

Seems to be discussed in quite a number of 'forums and boards'.



seekerof

[edit on 8-12-2004 by Seekerof]

Very Righteous of you Indigo....Im sorry I wasnt taking into account what you say is 100% right without any doubt. Whats it like not to be clouded with untruths Indigo?

If I was as righteous as you, would I too see the "light" and percieve the US government as "Natzi's?

killing civilians is ok? then your a nazi! other wise take head the words of this bold sergent has the courage to come forth and condemn the actions of our warriors. even with the neo-con-nazi-tyrants slandering with all of their might they can not hide the fact that propaganda is in place to desensitize our marines to the point of not caring about who or what they shoot. justifying this inhumane war of atrocity is like cleaning spilt milk with a broom.

You ain't gotta convice me of nothing, man. I know the war is wrong. I hate it. I hate the isolated incidents of atrocities. Just as bad as you. But look, brotha, I am NOT gonna just sit here, with you calling ME a Nazi, and take it. Sorry. Please, Indigo, next time, for God's sakes, just report on the story. I know you are mad. I am too. The last thing I expected out of you was to lose it like that. It is going too far.

Please, quote me where I called you a Nazi. I must have suffered partial amnesia. Further, what is going too far? Speaking the truth?

A sergant with 11 years of experience has just exposed the truth for you, and I am conveying the message for you? Has he gone too far? Because he agrees with me.

Further, what I said to you, was are you supporting this genocide or not, and if you are not, then why are you supporting it? Alright, even if I were to give the troops the benefit of the doubt and excuse them as misguided little children. Does that mean that I should support them, or even feel sorry for them?

justifying this inhumane war of atrocity is like cleaning spilt milk with a broom.

You have nailed it hard. I could not have said it any better. It appears that not only are our troops dehumanized. It appears our society is too. This is a really sad state of affairs. How do you wake up an entire country sleepwalking?

P.S I applaud you for being the third person to openly come out and state your truth with courage.

[edit on 8-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Problem I see here is that not only are you hanging your argument on one man's stated thoughts and opinions, you, as he, are also confusing "genocide" with 'crimes of war'.



seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
Problem I see here is that not only are you hanging your argument on one man's stated thoughts and opinions, you, as he, are also confusing "genocide" with 'crimes of war'.

No, I am hanging my argument on the truth, that is supported by hard factual evidence from independent reports, the occasionaly glimpses of hard reality from media, the leakage of information, the prison abuses, and finally the factual testimony of a brave sergant who has defied the state, put his own life in danger, and exposed it.

There was another such man who exposed the atrocities of military atrocity in Vietnam, seen "Causalities of war"

Finally, the murder of thousands of Iraqi's from 50,000 - 100,000 directly from US froces. Is genocide. It does not matter how you try to spin it, or what semantics you apply. That IS genocide.

P.S: I am going to add this as a last statement, as admittedly it is not the highest grade of evidence, but it supports what is being said, so take it for what it is worth, or just leave it: This is by an ATS member Billythecat who claims to have inside information on Iraq:


1. Large numbers come across as being very arrogant and very dumb.
2. An attitude of "I want to kill someone before leaving Iraq" is prevalent.
3. They have no regard for human life, apart from their own
4. There is no desire to try to understand the customs or indeed the people of Iraq

[edit on 8-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

You are aware that there are multiple articles to be had countering your claims on the figures you give, but of coarse, since you and Truth are best friends, those contesting articles would be pro-war propaganda, correct?
Here's one of those multitudes:
UK rejects report of 100,000 Iraq civilian deaths

Again, your 'vision or version' of "truth" is not everyone else's 'vision or version.'
Please, continue with your reasoning.



seekerof

Why do people seem to use Nazi analogies for alomost no explainable reason? Is it because in your eyes the Nazis were the epitome of evil, or barbarism Or is it because you find it a good technique in pushing your point along

In any case, Indigo, could you please explain why American soldiers, or indeed as your title suggests, America in general is National Socialist

no indigo, i said YOU have gone too far, here on ats, with such crazy Nazi claims that made it sound like it was coming from you, when you easily did not have to do it like that...heck you could have submitted it as an ATSNN story, and then stated your analysis, and the fact that you agree/disagree, you know...analysis.... at the bottom.

I have enjoyed reading your posts....until this one that is. What the heck has gotten into you? Yeah I see your points, and no, I don't support what you (and he) have mislabeled as genocide. THE POINT IS INDIGO: YOU ARE BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE. BUSH IS TO BLAME FOR ALL THIS. Can an E-1 do much about it? No. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Major source on this topic, based on a World Socialist Web Site article: "We're committing genocide in Iraq."
We're Committing Genocide In Iraq

Gee, no bias there, right? I'm sure the Socialists around the
world just looooooooooooooove America and wouldn't dream
of saying anything that wasn't true to further their cause.

``

i'm still listening to the 'interview' which seemlessly transitioned
into the friday telephone call-in program...

sheeze....what a lump of 'Swiss Cheese'

like, immediately dismissing the imbeded reporter[R Harris, StLouis Sentinel] at Battalion, who reported contrary to the 'epiphanied' Sgt Masseys' accounts! or about the 75mm howitzers,,,firing BLANKS...but by eliciting, in 'lawyer-eese' the suggestion that howitzers are lethal
(ERGO a false impression is created by implication and ineuendo,,)

etc etc etc etc...a fine example of spin & loaded half-truths

Why do people seem to use Nazi analogies for alomost no explainable reason? Is it because in your eyes the Nazis were the epitome of evil, or barbarism Or is it because you find it a good technique in pushing your point along

When i think of the term NAZI, its a reference to the entire german army as it was during world war 2. they fought valiantly for their cause under the guise of patrotism, nationalism, and strength! at least thats what i get out of the history channel, most who took their orders from hitler had no clue what so ever as to the general minfestation of dibachery they were commiting. they fought for the love of their home land the proud third reich of germany, much like our soldiers our being persuaded into fighting today. so to condone the usage of such a word genocide, might be a little over blow and out of purpotion to the actual scenario, the german soldiers did not know their leaders were commiting genocide, if they had they might have stopped the campaign dead in its tracks. at the present however, a guise of secrecy called national security attempts blanket the entire world senses to the modus operandi of our leaders. this horrific conecpt ensures our powerlessness to prevent our leaders from taking us in any direction they so willlingly choose.

(ERGO a false impression is created by implication and ineuendo,,)

thats my biggest gripe with ol jonesy boy, he just trys too hard to drill his point home. however this makes the sergents accusations no less incredulous.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
no indigo, i said YOU have gone too far, here on ats, with such crazy Nazi claims that made it sound like it was coming from you, when you easily did not have to do it like that...heck you could have submitted it as an ATSNN story, and then stated your analysis, and the fact that you agree/disagree, you know...analysis.... at the bottom.

What is a Nazi?

I understand a Nazi to be a government trained and drafted killing machine that kills anyone, but his own kind, indescriminately. I also understand that the term "Nazi" has been used to generally denote a very barbaric, evil, racial-supremist, or extreme nationalist.

A definition of Nazi is:

Often nazi An adherent or advocate of policies characteristic of Nazism; a fascist.

A definiton if facism is:

A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Then, considering the undeniable parallels between Nazi Germany and the current brutal American regime. The use of the word Nazi is justified and also apt.

I have enjoyed reading your posts....until this one that is. What the heck has gotten into you? Yeah I see your points, and no, I don't support what you (and he) have mislabeled as genocide.

I am sorry to disappoint you, but I write for what I believe in, and this time, our beliefs have clashed. Further, neither I, or he, has mislabeled genocide. As I have shown earlier by producing the definitions. It is you who are denying it.

THE POINT IS INDIGO: YOU ARE BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE. BUSH IS TO BLAME FOR ALL THIS. Can an E-1 do much about it? No. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Alright, let's agree to disagree. But without any intention to offend, if you are against Bush, then why do you support him with inaction?

[edit on 8-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by sturod84
Why do people seem to use Nazi analogies for alomost no explainable reason? Is it because in your eyes the Nazis were the epitome of evil, or barbarism Or is it because you find it a good technique in pushing your point along

I think that Godwins rule applies to this entire thread really. If nothing else, then the thread is a good example of why Godwin's Rule is more or less correct.

When i think of the term NAZI, its a reference to the entire german army as it was during world war 2.

That would be incorrect. The regular army was not made up of nazis.

they fought valiantly for their cause under the guise of patrotism, nationalism, and strength! at least thats what i get out of the history channel,

Don't listen to the history channel then. The werhmact wasn't a nazi political organ. Captured soldiers were not treated as nazis. THe nazis were a large party and had lots of sympathizers who enabled them. And hitler was in command of the army and hitler was nazi and much of the army highest command were nazis. But the regular army soldiers were not guilty of nazi war crimes by mere membership or merely because they were fighting in a war. The 'nazi soldiers' were the SA, replaced by the SS, they were the ones running the death camps, they were the nazis, not the wehrmacht and lufftwaf or any of the other regular army branches.

Originally posted by sturod84
When i think of the term NAZI, its a reference to the entire german army as it was during world war 2. they fought valiantly for their cause under the guise of patrotism, nationalism, and strength! at least thats what i get out of the history channel, most who took their orders from hitler had no clue what so ever as to the general minfestation of dibachery they were commiting. they fought for the love of their home land the proud third reich of germany, much like our soldiers our being persuaded into fighting today. so to condone the usage of such a word genocide, might be a little over blow and out of purpotion to the actual scenario, the german soldiers did not know their leaders were commiting genocide, if they had they might have stopped the campaign dead in its tracks.

It is unfortunate that Allied propaganda made the German soldier and the National Socialists one and the same thing. If Indigo is simply comparing US soldiers to WWII German soldiers, than i could accept that to an extent. The only problem is the actual differences between the two "wars". For one thing US Forces faced hardly any conventional military resistance, six Iraqi divisions hardly constitutes resistance. Even Occupied European resistance was decent, and the weapons used did actual damage. Whereas Resistance in Iraq is hardly formidable, a rusted up AK-47 is hardly a match for the most basic of Coaltion weapons, nor is the RPG.

If any comparison is to be made between American Forces in Iraq, and a past scenario, i would be more inclined to use 19th Century Imperialism, ie. Scramble for Africa, South Asia, South-East Asia etc., and the attitudes of Europeans to their particular Empires. Often it was simple indifference.

Originally posted by St Udio

or about the 75mm howitzers,,,firing BLANKS...but by eliciting, in 'lawyer-eese' the suggestion that howitzers are lethal
(ERGO a false impression is created by implication and ineuendo,,)

etc etc etc etc...a fine example of spin & loaded half-truths

The howitzers story was not a part of Massey story. It was shared by a caller who claimed to have seen the Canadian military target practice with artillary. Whence asked, they said it was in case of domestic terrorists, which certainly has an omnious ring to it. In an actual event of a demonstration, do you they think they would still be using blanks?

Recently, the Canadian government and correct me if I'm wrong, because I could be, this was a while ago, any type of activists and demonstraters were labeld as terrorists.

[edit on 8-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
A definition of Nazi is:

Often nazi An adherent or advocate of policies characteristic of Nazism; a fascist.

A definiton if facism is:

A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Then, considering the undeniable parallels between Nazi Germany and the current brutal American regime. The use of the word Nazi is justified and also apt.

[edit on 8-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Americans hardly adhere fully to the principles of National Socialism could you please go through and explain how National Socialism is implemented in the US

Here's a list:

THE PROGRAM OF THE N.S.D.A.P. : The 25 Points
The program of the NSDAP is a time program. Our leaders have pledged not to set new goals after achievement of the goals enumerated in this program, merely to continue our party through artificially increased dissatisfaction of the masses.

1. We demand the union of all Germans in a Great Germany on the basis of the principle of self- determination of all peoples.
2. We demand that the German people have rights equal to those of other nations; and that the Peace Treaties of Versailles and St. Germain shall be abrogated.
3. We demand land and territory (colonies) for the maintenance of our people and the settlement of our surplus population.
4. Only those who are our fellow countrymen can become citizens. Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman.
5. Those who are not citizens must live in Germany as foreigners and must be subject to the law of aliens.
6. The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to citizens. We therefore demand that no public office, of whatever nature, whether in the central government, the province, or the municipality, shall be held by anyone who is not a citizen.
We wage war against the corrupt parliamentary administration whereby men are appointed to posts by favor of the party without regard to character and fitness.
7. We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non- citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.
8. Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately.
9. All citizens must possess equal rights and duties.
10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.
Therefore we demand:
11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.
12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.
14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.
15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.
16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small trades people, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.
17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.
18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.
19. We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law.
20. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.
21. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.
22. We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army.
23. We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press. In order to make possible the creation of a German press, we demand:
(a) All editors and their assistants on newspapers published in the German language shall be German citizens.
(b) Non-German newspapers shall only be published with the express permission of the State. They must not be published in the German language.
(c) All financial interests in or in any way affecting German newspapers shall be forbidden to non- Germans by law, and we demand that the punishment for transgressing this law be the immediate suppression of the newspaper and the expulsion of the non-Germans from the Reich.
Newspapers transgressing against the common welfare shall be suppressed. We demand legal action against those tendencies in art and literature that have a disruptive influence upon the life of our folk, and that any organizations that offend against the foregoing demands shall be dissolved.
24. We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the Germanic race.
The party as such represents the point of view of a positive Christianity without binding itself to any one particular confession. It fights against the Jewish materialist spirit within and without, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our folk can only come about from within on the principle:

COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD

25. In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the
State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations.
The formation of professional committees and of committees representing the several estates of the realm, to ensure that the laws promulgated by the central authority shall be carried out by the federal states.
The leaders of the party undertake to promote the execution of the foregoing points at all costs, if necessary at the sacrifice of their own lives.

Munich, 24 February 1920