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First hint of 'life after death' in biggest ever scientific study

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posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 11:43 AM
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originally posted by: Cyruay
Poppycock.

Reeks of religious over tones.


How exactly?

The test subjects were from a wide variety of religious and non religious backgrounds. Which didnt seem to affect the experience they had.




posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 11:55 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: OneManArmy
I know full well what sleep paralysis is.
But tell me why the random hallucinations of an 8 year old boy would be of his, unknown to him, dead aunt, waving goodbye of all things.


And how do you know that you didn't just coincidentally have a dream about your aunt around the time she died? Like I said sleep paralysis comes with hallucinations; and to me, when you say that you were experiencing sleep paralysis, that immediately puts doubt on your claims that what you saw was real.

ETA: If you believe that the things you see during sleep paralysis is real, then you must also believe that these demons of old are real as well.


The hallucination wasnt terrifying. It was strange, I had much more terrifying episodes in that house. Mostly due to recurring dreams and the fact that the house was haunted. How do I know the house was haunted?
Because I stopped having the bad dreams and weird experiences when we left it.


Like I said in the first post I responded to you, it probably wasn't terrifying because you recognized the person in the dream. As for haunted houses, most hauntings can be attributed to the house being old and probably drafty or plagued by infrasound coupled with the night time being cooler and windier than the daytime. There is also the possibility of electronic interference from old electronics or old wiring in the house.


Well I have only ever had one or two "bad" dreams ever since I left that house. I used to tell my mum of an old man that used to come sit on my bed and tell me stories at night, I was 3 yrs old.
The house was built on an old graveyard from the plague it later turned out, once I was at secondary school and we learned about the history of the area.
I lived less than 2 miles from where the famous "Green Street Poltergeist" events occurred.


Cool story. I'm not saying that you didn't experience a real haunting. I just doubt the veracity of ghosts. They may well exist, but you should explore the logical and sensible explanations before jumping to the unnatural and supernatural explanations.


Sleep paralysis is the commonly used explanation for this sort of thing around these here parts(ATS), so I used the commonly understood expression to explain it. I have never been diagnosed with any mental disorder or sleep problems, and that includes sleep paralysis. All I know is my aunt was drifting across the hallway and I couldnt move.
But like the response to my first mention of ghosts goes to show, it brings ridicule to those who describe their experiences as "supernatural". Now you can use the symptoms of sleep paralysis to explain it away in your own head, but it bears little upon my own belief of what happened.

Why do we even still have psychical/paranormal research if there is nothing to it?
Someone better let those poor guys know they are wasting their time.
Because some guy on ATS says so.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 12:33 PM
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originally posted by: OneManArmy
Sleep paralysis is the commonly used explanation for this sort of thing around these here parts(ATS), so I used the commonly understood expression to explain it. I have never been diagnosed with any mental disorder or sleep problems, and that includes sleep paralysis. All I know is my aunt was drifting across the hallway and I couldnt move.[


That is sleep paralysis. You just described the symptoms. By the way, reoccurring sleep paralysis is only a sleep problem in a few people. For most people, it is something that happens every now and then or even just once. Other people can train themselves to do it (needs to be done to be able to do lucid dreaming). So it isn't unheard of that someone has a lone sleep paralysis event like you described.


But like the response to my first mention of ghosts goes to show, it brings ridicule to those who describe their experiences as "supernatural". Now you can use the symptoms of sleep paralysis to explain it away in your own head, but it bears little upon my own belief of what happened.


First off, I'm not ridiculing you at all. I'm talking to you maturely and respectfully. So not sure what you are getting at there. Second, your beliefs on the matter SHOULD be irrelevant to understanding what happened. Your beliefs create a confirmation bias and blind you to alternate ideas. They allow you to make assumptions without the required evidence to say that is true.

For one, ghosts aren't proven to exist. So to come out and say that what you saw was a ghost while simultaneously discounting all other possibilities isn't scientific and does little to bring to light the truth of the matter. The reason I default to the rational and mundane explanation is because I use Occam's Razor on the regular (the idea with the least amount of assumptions is probably the correct one). It's a good stance to take so that you don't get too out there with guesswork. Though for all you or I know, we could both be wrong. What if what you saw was some sort of energy life form that was playing a trick on you by pretending to look like your aunt? Or maybe it was tricking you so that it could relay a message to you on the behalf of your aunt. Those are both equally likely possibilities of what happened, but they require assumptions about things we don't know.

Again, I'm not saying you DIDN'T experience a ghost sighting. I'm just saying that you didn't necessarily see one either. You can't know for sure, yet are making the claim in the affirmative like you did. There are too many unknowns about the story, your situation, and your mental state before we can confirm or deny it. There is also the fact that we don't even know if ghosts are real.


Why do we even still have psychical/paranormal research if there is nothing to it?


Because people believe things without looking too deeply into why they believe them. Paranormal research and NDE situations aren't the only cases of this. Look at religion, other people tell people what to believe and not to question it. Then they believe it, yet even a minor review of the claims can show there are many discrepancies with what any religion says is true.


Someone better let those poor guys know they are wasting their time.
Because some guy on ATS says so.


I'm sure those people are aware that skeptics exist. If better known skeptics than I cannot point these things out to them, they aren't going to care what I think on the matter. But regardless, it's their right to believe it. So if they want to put all their eggs into the "ghosts are real" basket, who am I to say they can't do it? The only problem is if evidence comes to light that shows their worldview as wrong. That is when people like that cause problems. To that, I reference the young earth creationism versus evolution debate. YEC is clearly wrong. All the evidence points to the contrary, yet they continue to go on like there is an actual debate left to be had; all because they can't accept the reality that the evidence is telling a different story than the one they are slinging.

There is nothing wrong with searching for answers. But if you do it the wrong way, you will only find the wrong answers.
edit on 9-10-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 01:07 PM
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a reply to: surrealist

There are 2 movies on Netflix that I really enjoyed about life after death and NDE's. I believe they were both good but it might have only been 1 that was good I can't remember. The one I remember being very good was given accounts by people that had the experiences.

Afterlife-this was the really good one with interviews and case studies by people that had the experiences

The Afterlife Investigations- Experiments involving Life after Death stuff.

I believe I read a book that was similar to Afterlife that had to do with interviews and case studies that was along the same lines as the movie that was really good as well. I can't remember it off the top of my head but if anyone is interested I will find out the name of it.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: OneManArmy

As someone who's suffered from sleep paralysis for over a decade, ranging from "I'm definitely awake and someone's watching me" to "I'm being twisted into dimensions I didn't even know existed" there is nothing supernatural about sleep paralysis. You think you're awake but your'e actually asleep. You don't need a mental disorder or sleep disorder to experience sleep paralysis. You're describing textbook sleep paralysis, nothing more.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: surrealist

I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want the hope or belief in an after life. A place where only love is given and shared. Does pain and evil have more value than love? Is all we know through our experiences in this world is all that is? What a shallow mind to trust only what it knows since what it doesn't will always be so much more than what it does. One grain of sand compared to a desert. What harm in a person's life is there to believe in a better place, in another reality than mass and matter that doesn't include human garbage, unless you love, eat, sleep and create such garbage and it's your best attribute.

Is the glass half full or half empty?

I had a car wreck over 30 years ago in which I had a totally severed aorta. I should of died in 4 minutes. I was in a hospital for over 3 months and studied by 2 universities. My doctors told me that science was thrown out the window in my case. Blood flowed from one end of the severed aorta to the other without leaking having thin air holding it together. It only leaked when a graft was placed. They said that I should be dead and it was impossible but here you are. I had a white light experience that there are no words good enough to describe it and the brain isn't big enough to process such information. I was given a choice to stay there or come back here. I knew no evil there, I didn't know what a bad day was or ever had one. There was no pain or threat there or better than beings. All was together in love and joy we cannot experience here. I came back because from that perspective, adding a little bit of good to that world was utterly important and if I didn't go back the opportunity was gone forever and it was for a very short time, a snap of a finger. Coming back to pain and human drama makes me wonder if I would of made that choice if I understood those things from that perspective. The doctors believed the heaven experience saying only God could of pulled that one off but I can't put it in the books.

I wonder how many times that has been said.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 01:57 PM
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originally posted by: Avoiceinthewilderness
a reply to: surrealist

I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want the hope or belief in an after life.


Credulously accepting bad science and rejecting evidence to the contrary simply because you want to believe something is true really isn't a noble goal.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 02:20 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Again, have you ever read an NDE?


Why yes I have. They are fascinating experiences that I feel need to be better understood since doing so could illuminate more about the workings of the brain.


In many of these cases, the person having the experience becomes more aware of things going on around their bodies and then they can become instantly aware of where and what some family members are saying. Where's your evidence that this "hyper consciousness" as you call it should see a random penguin or picture on the wall when they're dying?


I don't call it that, that's what the reports YOU just asked me I had read have said. I'm just curious why you'd think someone's peripheral vision wouldn't work. The stories talk about people being able to see things in the room, therefore it reasons they should still have peripheral vision. Or does it not work that way? Wait you don't know either, yet you are making assumptions about what these people are experiencing.


Why should these random pictures and this stuffed penguin be important to someone that's dying? Again I ask, have you ever read an NDE???


Why wouldn't they? If you are supposedly "hyper"aware as the experiencers say, then it reasons that they'd notice and pay attention to even the tiniest detail. Increasing awareness means you take in MORE information, not less. If someone is looking down from the ceiling or the corner of the room, these things would be out of place since we assume that there shouldn't be anything there. So you think that people not noticing ANY of these things EVER isn't a significant detail? That's denialism and confirmation bias talking.


Again, this shows a total ignorance of near death experiences. This is the problem, people debate the issue and just make things up as they go that fits there belief system. This is why I keep asking you if you ever read an NDE.

In an NDE, people become more aware as they leave the body but they don't lose their focus. They can focus their awareness on things that matter to them while they're dying. Like there body lying on the table or what loved ones are doing.

Again I ask,

WHY WOULD THEY FOCUS THEIR AWARENESS ON A RANDOM PENGUIN OR PICTURE?

Here's some of Pam Reynolds NDE.


The next thing I recall was the sound: It was a Natural "D." As I listened to the sound, I felt it was pulling me out of the top of my head. The further out of my body I got, the more clear the tone became. I had the impression it was like a road, a frequency that you go on ... I remember seeing several things in the operating room when I was looking down. It was the most aware that I think that I have ever been in my entire life ...I was metaphorically sitting on [the doctor's] shoulder. It was not like normal vision. It was brighter and more focused and clearer than normal vision ... There was so much in the operating room that I didn't recognize, and so many people.

I thought the way they had my head shaved was very peculiar. I expected them to take all of the hair, but they did not...


Again, an NDE doesn't lose their focus, they expand their awareness. What was she aware of? She said it was like she was standing over the shoulder of the Doctor who was doing the operation looking at her body.

It's just idiotic to think that someone is dying and their awareness will be focused on a penguin or a picture on a shelf in the room.

It would make more sense to take pictures from the persons photo album and blow them up. They're most likely to focus their awareness on pictures of loved ones vs. random pictures or a penguin.

Obviously, you don't understand what a near death experience is. They don't lose their focus. For instance, if they see a tunnel or light they can focus their awareness on the light and move towards the light.

Again, you're dying. You're seeing your body being operated on. You're seeing loved ones crying. You're seeing past loved ones. You're seeing things you can't even put into words. And during all of this, you're going to focus your awareness on a penguin on a shelf??????? That's just asinine.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 02:23 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

Do you not know what peripheral vision is? Because you keep using the word "focus" and I keep asking you about peripheral vision which you haven't addressed yet. Or are you just purposely ignoring that?



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 02:35 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Sadly, you're trying to fit your nonsense into what's actually occurring. If you would take the time to actually read about NDE's and the research associated with NDE's you wouldn't make such asinine comments.

People see things in their peripheral vision all the time and you don't remember it in the next minute because it has nothing to do with what you're focused on. With NDE's the focus is even more intense because they're dying. Like Pam Reynolds said, she was focused on her body and the people operating on her not some random picture or penguin in the room.

Like I said, if you studied these things, you would know that NDE's don't say they saw every random thing around them during their experience. They're awareness began to expand but their focus is on what's happening to them and not to random pictures and penguins on a shelf.
edit on 9-10-2014 by neoholographic because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 02:35 PM
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a reply to: Avoiceinthewilderness

I believe in the afterlife. However, I do not believe that the afterlife, the Holy Spirit, or any other mechanism that could be linked to the Creator or his power, can be measured by science, studied, poked, prodded, probed. I believe that human kind could populate this galaxy, this universe even, and be utterly clueless as to even a single percentage point of his true power, or the meaning of any damned thing that we see in the entire sum of his creation.

And I say this despite all the work that has been done in particle physics, despite all the effort that has been made to uncover what we know as the deepest secrets in the universe.

All of that said, I respect and enjoy science, because it allows us to observe parts, tiny motes of the sum, even exploit certain interesting facets of these wonders that we can experience.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

Here's the bit that YOU just posted to me again:

The next thing I recall was the sound: It was a Natural "D." As I listened to the sound, I felt it was pulling me out of the top of my head. The further out of my body I got, the more clear the tone became. I had the impression it was like a road, a frequency that you go on ... I remember seeing several things in the operating room when I was looking down. It was the most aware that I think that I have ever been in my entire life ...I was metaphorically sitting on [the doctor's] shoulder. It was not like normal vision. It was brighter and more focused and clearer than normal vision ... There was so much in the operating room that I didn't recognize, and so many people.

I thought the way they had my head shaved was very peculiar. I expected them to take all of the hair, but they did not...


That CLEARLY says operating ROOM not operating table.

In any case you clearly don't know how human attention works. Things that stand out, catch people's attention. Sure these things may not catch every person's attention because like you said they are worried about dying or whatever, but to say that EVERY SINGLE person didn't see those things. THAT is definitely a significant piece of evidence that cannot be overlooked like you are trying so desperately to overlook.
edit on 9-10-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 03:06 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

LOL, sadly for you, this has nothing to do with NDE's.

Herein lies the problem. Blind skeptics make these nonsensical statements that have nothing to do with what we're actually talking about. If you bothered to do a little research it would stop you from making asinine statements.

When she said she saw things around the operating room that she didn't recognize, she was talking about the instruments the Doctors used on her while they were operating. She went on to describe some of the instruments the Doctors were using in detail.

THIS PROVES MY POINT!

You don't care about actual research. You have already formed a belief about these things and your blind belief will not let common sense in.

When she said she saw things she didn't recognize, she wasn't talking about random penguins on a shelf, she was talking about things the Doctors used to operate on her because HER AWARENESS WAS FOCUSED ON HER BODY! If you would have just read more about the experience instead of just copying and pasting you would of saw this. In the very next paragraph it says this:


The saw-thing that I hated the sound of looked like an electric toothbrush and it had a dent in it, a groove at the top where the saw appeared to go into the handle, but it didn't ... And the saw had interchangeable blades, too, but these blades were in what looked like a socket wrench case ... I heard the saw crank up. I didn't see them use it on my head, but I think I heard it being used on something. It was humming at a relatively high pitch and then all of a sudden it went Brrrrrrrrr! like that.


So again, it's just blind ignorance to think someone would focus their awareness on a penguin on a shelf when they're looking at their body being operated on. Like I said, you have to be willing to do the research instead of blindly debating what you believe.
edit on 9-10-2014 by neoholographic because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 03:08 PM
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originally posted by: Avoiceinthewilderness
I had a car wreck over 30 years ago in which I had a totally severed aorta. I should of died in 4 minutes..

Your experience reminded me of Dr. Eby's .

His story was even more mind boggling as he had no blood in his body when he came back.

His atheist doctor was so shocked in fact that he cussed him out and told him to shut up...


Dr. Richard Eby was a professor and obstetrician who fell off a second story balcony in Chicago and hit his head and died instantly and found himself in Paradise. When he came back to a bloodless corpse in the hospital morgue, the athiest Doctor refused to believe he was alive and told him to 'shut up and don't give me any of that #' because he knew that Eby had been taken into the hospital as a totally bloodless dead body.
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 03:31 PM
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originally posted by: neoholographic
You don't care about actual research. You have already formed a belief about these things and your blind belief will not let common sense in.



The truth is never popular...

Ironic but true.


"The Truth is heavy, therefore few care to carry it" ~ Winston Churchill

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ~ Herbert Agar

• People who are pretending to be asleep will resist being awakened because they have something to lose by ending the charade.

• People who pretend to be asleep can often lose track of what is real and what is pretend and thus cannot respond normally to situations.

• People will act as if nothing is happening when they don’t want to face the reality of the situation by pretending to be unaware or unsure despite being presented with the evidence.

You Can’t Wake A Person Who Is Pretending To Be Asleep



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 03:34 PM
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originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: Krazysh0t

LOL, sadly for you, this has nothing to do with NDE's.

Herein lies the problem. Blind skeptics make these nonsensical statements that have nothing to do with what we're actually talking about. If you bothered to do a little research it would stop you from making asinine statements.


Says the blind believer.


When she said she saw things around the operating room that she didn't recognize, she was talking about the instruments the Doctors used on her while they were operating. She went on to describe some of the instruments the Doctors were using in detail.

THIS PROVES MY POINT!


No it doesn't. There could be any number of reasons why she didn't see or talk about the images or the penguin. You are reading too far into the story here and need to take a step back from it all. Your confirmation bias is blinding you to being impartial.


You don't care about actual research. You have already formed a belief about these things and your blind belief will not let common sense in.


Common sense like these questions? How do we know the memory wasn't formed after the surgery? How do we know it wasn't just her senses or consciousness going haywire?

Common sense dictates that we get an adequate answer to why the person didn't see the objects in the room. Saying that she wasn't focusing on them is a cop out. You can't just dismiss a discrepancy with an account just because you want your version of things to be true.


When she said she saw things she didn't recognize, she wasn't talking about random penguins on a shelf, she was talking about things the Doctors used to operate on her because HER AWARENESS WAS FOCUSED ON HER BODY! If you would have just read more about the experience instead of just copying and pasting you would of saw this. In the very next paragraph it says this:


That's because she didn't see the things because she probably created the memory after the event as her body tried to make sense of all the sensory data it got while the surgery was going on. She didn't know those things existed so she wasn't able to reproduce them in the testimony. You can go on and on about focusing all you want and insult my intelligence all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that what I am saying is true. The woman should still have peripheral vision, she should still be able to notice these things from the top of the room, or wherever she was located, but she didn't. That is a significant detail, which you so DESPERATELY want to gloss over and are actually getting angry with me since I refuse to just accept this as anything more than an interesting story.


So again, it's just blind ignorance to think someone would focus their awareness on a penguin on a shelf when they're looking at their body being operated on. Like I said, you have to be willing to do the research instead of blindly debating what you believe.


Do you even know what research is? I highly doubt that you have done anything CLOSE to credible scientific research on this subject. I bet all you've done is read a bunch of testimonials from people saying they have had NDE's and pretend like that is irrefutable evidence that they are true.

For one, testimonials AREN'T scientific evidence of anything. Your brain is prone to lie to you as you recall events and that doesn't change the fact that we don't know when this "memory" was formed or if it was really just a form of lucid dreaming. Scientific understanding of the brain is also very lacking, so we also need to understand more about how the brain operates and behaves before we can start making calls about how it behaves under duress like that. These are valid points that need to be addressed before you can say definitively that NDE's are evidence of the afterlife. Compound that with the fact that no one (not just one person) has found the images/penguin in the room when experiencing an NDE and things become murkier still.

If you really wanted to be honest about researching NDE's, you'd abandon all your preconceived notions about it (like that it is evidence of an afterlife) and start over from the beginning. You'd analyze all things related to the event, NOT just the testimonial of the person who experienced it. You'd take into consideration every detail and note anything that doesn't jive. You WOULDN'T appologize for someone missing a detail that seems small (like missing seeing an item in the room that only they should be able to see), especially if that small detail is repeated throughout all the people interviewed. You'd try to devise experiments to try to test these claims as real (like putting signs in the operating room where only the person experiencing the NDE could see them)

Then once you collected all your evidence, only THEN would you make a judgment call on what is going on. If the evidence isn't compelling enough to make an answer, then you leave it at "I don't know" and go back to trying to collect more evidence. You CERTAINLY don't jump the gun and start making declarations on what NDE's are and aren't based off of testimonials alone, which you are clearly doing.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 03:59 PM
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originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: Avoiceinthewilderness
I had a car wreck over 30 years ago in which I had a totally severed aorta. I should of died in 4 minutes..

Your experience reminded me of Dr. Eby's .

His story was even more mind boggling as he had no blood in his body when he came back.

His atheist doctor was so shocked in fact that he cussed him out and told him to shut up...


Dr. Richard Eby was a professor and obstetrician who fell off a second story balcony in Chicago and hit his head and died instantly and found himself in Paradise. When he came back to a bloodless corpse in the hospital morgue, the athiest Doctor refused to believe he was alive and told him to 'shut up and don't give me any of that #' because he knew that Eby had been taken into the hospital as a totally bloodless dead body.
www.abovetopsecret.com...


This is hilarious. First, he wasn't dead or he wouldn't have "come back". Secondly, your source couldn't spell atheist and obviously isn't legitimate.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t


This is a common example of misdirection and a long winded post about nothing.

First, we were debating whether someone should see a random picture or a penguin on a shelf when dying. You basically have little to no understanding of NDE's

You go on and on about peripheral vision but this is just nonsense.

Show me a NDE experience were the person said they recognized every random thing in the room while they're bodies was being operated on. This is just an asinine statement and it has nothing to do with actual NDE's. Most of them are focused on their bodies, families and things going on around them. Not random pictures or penguins.

You said:

You WOULDN'T appologize for someone missing a detail that seems small (like missing seeing an item in the room that only they should be able to see), especially if that small detail is repeated throughout all the people interviewed.

Again, this is just blind ignorance.

Give me an NDE experience where the person recognizes and names every small detail in the room. The NDE is usually focused on their bodies being operated on, their past and present loved ones and the fact they're seeing things they don't understand. They're not focused on every small detail in the room. They have expanded awareness but they don't lose their focus. There's no reason to focus on a random picture or penguin at the top of the room when dying.

You then made a general statement that only supports your subjective personal belief. It has nothing to do with the research that has been done for many years in this area.

These things do support life after death.

Nobody is saying how long this life after death occurs or some Doctors are suggesting that the definition of when someone is dead needs to be expanded.

The material brain isn't magic and it can't do all things. It processes vast amounts of information but science has no idea as to how consciousness can emerge from the material brain or how we can do a simple thing like recall a specific memory.

How does the material brain know which memory I wish to recall? How does it know the difference between specific memories? How does the material brain know which neurons to activate that our associated with a specific memory?

The point is, it's not science to say we don't know these answers BUT WE KNOW THE ANSWERS CAN ONLY BE FOUND IN THE CONTEXT OF MATERIALISM.

This isn't science, this is belief. A belief and faith that materialism can answer these questions.

What we know based on research is that awareness expands at death and people report these experiences. You can't just say, the brain did it because you have blind faith in materialism.

The hypocrisy of materialism is evident. On one hand you say we can't trust people experience and then in the next breathe you say the brain can do all these things.

HOW DO YOU KNOW THE BRAIN CAN DO ALL THESE THINGS?

What you will say is, there have been experiments were some of these things were reproduced in a lab when the brain was stimulated.

HOW DO YOU KNOW THESE EXPERIENCES OCCURRED WHEN THE BRAIN WAS STIMULATED?

You know because of the subjective experience being told to you by the person whose brain is being stimulated.

SO WHICH IS IT????

DO YOU ONLY TAKE INTO ACCOUNT SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE WHEN YOU THINK IT SUPPORTS YOUR BELIEF??

When you're dealing with science, especially medical scientific research, you depend on subject experience. When you go to the Doctor, the first thing they ask you is how do you feel? What's hurting?

They depend on your subjective experience in order to find a diagnosis of the problem.

Have you ever done or seen a medical trial being done of a new drug? Part of the process depends on the subjective experience of the subjects in the trial.

For instance, they will say a drug may cause nausea. How do they know it may cause nausea? Because of the subjective experience of some of the patients in the trial.

So, this is very important research and when doing this research you have to take experience into account because so many of these cases are being reported.

Like I said, you can't just say it's the brain like the brain is magical and can do all things without question. This is just your material belief system not science.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 05:32 PM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

It all is past man's understanding and this is a place that leads to another. I do agree with you for the most part.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 05:48 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine
This is hilarious. First, he wasn't dead or he wouldn't have "come back". Secondly, your source couldn't spell atheist and obviously isn't legitimate.

You sound exactly like Dr. Eby's doctor.

Denying facts while staring right at them.

Experience ALWAYS trumps opinion...

Not to mention the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, Lazarus, and countless others throughout history.

I'll take God's word over yours any day.

His actions speak much louder than any man's words.


When Jesus died there was a violent earthquake and the veil in the temple was torn from top to bottom. The Bible says tombs were opened and many bodies of saints arose from the dead. It says that after Jesus' resurrection they went into Jerusalem where many people witnessed their return to life. ~ Mt 27:51-53



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