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Major New Fuel Cell Breaktrough

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posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 06:13 AM
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"Idaho Lab, Utah Company Achieve Major Milestone In Hydrogen Research


Salt Lake City UT (SPX) Dec 08, 2004
Researchers at the U.S. Department of Energy's Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory and Ceramatec of Salt Lake City are reporting a significant development in their efforts to help the nation advance toward a clean hydrogen economy."

www.spacedaily.com...

This new technology fuel cell can produce either electricity or pure hydrogen for public consumption. The unit produces hydrogen at an effieciency rate of 50% verses 30% for standard processes. The source energy for the fuel cell is NATURAL GAS. This will make the unit more commercially viable in the private sector.




posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 08:06 AM
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Excellent, we need more big innovative brealthroughs to makes this replace oil, that will be a good day.

People always think the military is used to secure oil, and when hydrogen becomes main stream we will see.

I think a conversion to hydrogen should really help our economy, because WE would be in control and not a middle east country.



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by Murcielago
Excellent, we need more big innovative brealthroughs to makes this replace oil, that will be a good day.

It's not really replacing oil, if Natural Gas is the source energy is it? Wouldn't we be just replacing one non-renewable energy source with another if we went to natural gas?



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 02:38 PM
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.
I share some of IronDogg's questions.

The ability to more efficiently manipulate one energy source into another, does however lead in the right direction.

The more hyperfluid/granular our thinking is the better we can reach for farther out ideas that work.

The more tools at one's disposal the more precisely and efficiently one can accomplish a task.
.



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 03:56 PM
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Alright. Now that we dont need oil anymore kofi anon will be charged for his oil for food thing



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by IronDogg
It's not really replacing oil, if Natural Gas is the source energy is it? Wouldn't we be just replacing one non-renewable energy source with another if we went to natural gas?


Natural gas is largely composed of methane, which is also easily formed from your crap. In Los Angelas, California the sewage treatment plant already gathers the methane emissions from the microbial life in fecal matter and uses it to power an electric plant. There are other companies that specialize in providing small plants for large factory farms. The waste that comes from it makes for a great fertilizer, since by the time the methane is harvested most of the dangerous/gross microbial life is dead from its own waste (methane + CO2). This fertilizer is then trucked to organic farms or fertilizer companies.

The problem is that not enough methane can be produced to support the entire process (including trucking away the waste) and even after making the whole process more efficient it's unlikely that it would change.

Nevermind that though, this is a high-heat process. That means that the water is simply heated so that the electricity used to separate the water into hydrogen and oxygen is only 50% wasted instead of 70% waste. The water could be heated with anything, from a giant focal lens to coal (exp. 2050).

The bottom line is that this won't save the hydrogen economy, especially since we're looking at a 50% efficiency. Alcohol can be produced at above 120% efficiency, as can vegetable oil from algae. I still say we farm the deserts and improve ICE technology with the additions of regenerative braking, as we have been.

In the future we may see a return to relying on trains for the transportation of goods and living close to work, etc, as small scale travel will be very expensive (unless someone goes ahead with desert farming of algae to produce alcohol and biodiesel).

[edit on 12/8/2004 by shbaz]



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by shbaz

Originally posted by IronDogg
It's not really replacing oil, if Natural Gas is the source energy is it? Wouldn't we be just replacing one non-renewable energy source with another if we went to natural gas?


Natural gas is largely composed of methane, which is also easily formed from your crap. In Los Angelas, California the sewage treatment plant already gathers the methane emissions from the microbial life in fecal matter and uses it to power an electric plant. There are other companies that specialize in providing small plants for large factory farms. The waste that comes from it makes for a great fertilizer, since by the time the methane is harvested most of the dangerous/gross microbial life is dead from its own waste (methane + CO2). This fertilizer is then trucked to organic farms or fertilizer companies.

The problem is that not enough methane can be produced to support the entire process (including trucking away the waste) and even after making the whole process more efficient it's unlikely that it would change.

Nevermind that though, this is a high-heat process. That means that the water is simply heated so that the electricity used to separate the water into hydrogen and oxygen is only 50% wasted instead of 70% waste. The water could be heated with anything, from a giant focal lens to coal (exp. 2050).

The bottom line is that this won't save the hydrogen economy, especially since we're looking at a 50% efficiency. Alcohol can be produced at above 120% efficiency, as can vegetable oil from algae. I still say we farm the deserts and improve ICE technology with the additions of regenerative braking, as we have been.

In the future we may see a return to relying on trains for the transportation of goods and living close to work, etc, as small scale travel will be very expensive (unless someone goes ahead with desert farming of algae to produce alcohol and biodiesel).

[edit on 12/8/2004 by shbaz]


If thats true then why dont we just power every city with our sh*t



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 07:10 PM
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alcohol isn't everywhere though.

Hydrogen virtually is, with 75% of our world being covered in water, this is the future. hydrogen powered cars should be going mainstream in 10 years in the US.



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 08:17 PM
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Well with the fuel cell, what is the max speeds torque power and all that stuff
is it similar worse/better thatn gasoline cause this could effect the ability for fuel cell to hit mainstream.



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 08:37 PM
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Hydrogen has many advantages as a source of power. It can be produced cheaply from water- the water we need to drink and irrigate. It leaks worse than any other gas due to its small molecular diameter, so you sell more than if you used alcohol. It rises, so any that leaks goes into the stratosphere, becomes ionized, rises further and blows away in the solar wind thereby decreasing supply and raising price. This property of desertification raises prices of everything, improving the economy further still. And any building trapping rising hydrogen will spontaneously detonate, leading to rebuilding and further economic expansion. Hydrogen makes much more sense than alcohol fuel cells (which already exist), just like wind power makes more sense than amorphous photovoltaics. Remember, when Shell and DOE agree that a power source is good for you, you need not think like a scientist because they have Economists you can trust.

[edit on 8-12-2004 by Chakotay]



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by Chakotay
Hydrogen has many advantages as a source of power. It can be produced cheaply from water- the water we need to drink and irrigate. It leaks worse than any other gas due to its small molecular diameter, so you sell more than if you used alcohol. It rises, so any that leaks goes into the stratosphere, becomes ionized, rises further and blows away in the solar wind thereby decreasing supply and raising price. This property of desertification raises prices of everything, improving the economy further still. And any building trapping rising hydrogen will spontaneously detonate, leading to rebuilding and further economic expansion. Hydrogen makes much more sense than alcohol fuel cells (which already exist), just like wind power makes more sense than amorphous photovoltaics. Remember, when Shell and DOE agree that a power source is good for you, you need not think like a scientist because they have Economists you can trust.

[edit on 8-12-2004 by Chakotay]



Great stuff! Even if it is the exaggerated truth...



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by Murcielago
alcohol isn't everywhere though.

Hydrogen virtually is, with 75% of our world being covered in water, this is the future. hydrogen powered cars should be going mainstream in 10 years in the US.


No it's not, because land is everywhere to grow alcohol (which can come from more than just corn, etc) and it's a positive energy balance, rather than a negative energy balance requiring petroleum backups.

To the genius who replied to my post, which I'll quote:


The problem is that not enough methane can be produced to support the entire process (including trucking away the waste) and even after making the whole process more efficient it's unlikely that it would change.


... with "why don't we power all of our cities with our sh*t"

????????



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 09:06 PM
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I agree, using NG to produce H is only a stopgap measuer since NG supplies are already strained.

Biodiesel is the most promissing so far, school busses all over the country are using it, but mainly to reduce polutants inside the bus with some savings. Wendy's, KFC and McD's love it since they get rid of there oil for free.

Sh** power, it takes four households of dumps to power 1 laptop. BUT, pig farms have a lot of the stuff at a real high potency.

We need device that resembles a tree, that uses seawater or treated effluent, and runs on virtually no power except solar producing barrels of a hydros chemical that can be distributed easily and won't leave craters in the road in the event of a crash!. There is a catalyst that will do this, but I bet one or more of the chemical giants are keeping it to themselves. If someone does produce it, they end up in court over patent infringements or just disappear.



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