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Originally posted by Murcielago
Excellent, we need more big innovative brealthroughs to makes this replace oil, that will be a good day.
Originally posted by IronDogg
It's not really replacing oil, if Natural Gas is the source energy is it? Wouldn't we be just replacing one non-renewable energy source with another if we went to natural gas?
Originally posted by shbaz
Originally posted by IronDogg
It's not really replacing oil, if Natural Gas is the source energy is it? Wouldn't we be just replacing one non-renewable energy source with another if we went to natural gas?
Natural gas is largely composed of methane, which is also easily formed from your crap. In Los Angelas, California the sewage treatment plant already gathers the methane emissions from the microbial life in fecal matter and uses it to power an electric plant. There are other companies that specialize in providing small plants for large factory farms. The waste that comes from it makes for a great fertilizer, since by the time the methane is harvested most of the dangerous/gross microbial life is dead from its own waste (methane + CO2). This fertilizer is then trucked to organic farms or fertilizer companies.
The problem is that not enough methane can be produced to support the entire process (including trucking away the waste) and even after making the whole process more efficient it's unlikely that it would change.
Nevermind that though, this is a high-heat process. That means that the water is simply heated so that the electricity used to separate the water into hydrogen and oxygen is only 50% wasted instead of 70% waste. The water could be heated with anything, from a giant focal lens to coal (exp. 2050).
The bottom line is that this won't save the hydrogen economy, especially since we're looking at a 50% efficiency. Alcohol can be produced at above 120% efficiency, as can vegetable oil from algae. I still say we farm the deserts and improve ICE technology with the additions of regenerative braking, as we have been.
In the future we may see a return to relying on trains for the transportation of goods and living close to work, etc, as small scale travel will be very expensive (unless someone goes ahead with desert farming of algae to produce alcohol and biodiesel).
[edit on 12/8/2004 by shbaz]
Originally posted by Chakotay
Hydrogen has many advantages as a source of power. It can be produced cheaply from water- the water we need to drink and irrigate. It leaks worse than any other gas due to its small molecular diameter, so you sell more than if you used alcohol. It rises, so any that leaks goes into the stratosphere, becomes ionized, rises further and blows away in the solar wind thereby decreasing supply and raising price. This property of desertification raises prices of everything, improving the economy further still. And any building trapping rising hydrogen will spontaneously detonate, leading to rebuilding and further economic expansion. Hydrogen makes much more sense than alcohol fuel cells (which already exist), just like wind power makes more sense than amorphous photovoltaics. Remember, when Shell and DOE agree that a power source is good for you, you need not think like a scientist because they have Economists you can trust.
[edit on 8-12-2004 by Chakotay]
Originally posted by Murcielago
alcohol isn't everywhere though.
Hydrogen virtually is, with 75% of our world being covered in water, this is the future. hydrogen powered cars should be going mainstream in 10 years in the US.
The problem is that not enough methane can be produced to support the entire process (including trucking away the waste) and even after making the whole process more efficient it's unlikely that it would change.