The Grand Master of The Illuminati.

a reply to: Ridhya

In general what you observe is demonstrably correct and the worst of human nature distorts any benevolent initiative for all the people towards self serving ends, that does sort of correspond to Mesopotamian traditions reflected in the Bible that the more human the descendants of the celestial sages became then the more evil proliferated, though even the Hebrews using the esoteric traditions they had learned to simply forward themselves as a chosen people is part of that process, and then it became just about their Priesthoods, but despite all of that i'm not too cynical but simply look to reconstruct the initial vision as at some point it will be enforced by Higher Powers.





a reply to: Nechash

Yes in general establishment upon a broad base is the best way to go in say building a pyramid, start with a singular point and you don't really have anywhere to go...

a reply to: Kantzveldt
For me its often hard to tell whether a movement was bad to begin with, or if they always get co-opted by greedy individuals... its not necessarily that the position is inherently bad, but that being a position of power, it attracts the worst kind of people, naturally.
Other things may have started out with negative objectives...

What did you mean by "at some point it will be enforced by Higher Powers"?
Cool song by the way!

Another enjoyable thread Kantzveldt although it often seems like you restrict or perhaps limit yourself or your theories/ research and by always linking everything to Sumer.

a reply to: Ridhya

I meant that even though mythology isn't literally true it still gives actual insight into greater reality and that narratives of doom, judgement and rebirth should be taken seriously, that it is inevitable that those process take place as they are an essential component of the Natural-Divine philosophy, and so one way or another they shall, you certainly can't toss away all the myths and live happily ever after...


a reply to: The 5th


Hey i didn't mention any of that in this OP...!?!...but in general i take your point, it's just that the wealth of early textual evidence from Sumeria is beyond temptation for me, i mean i could look to the coastal cities of Peru that were established around the same time such as Caral and perhaps make the case for similar things happening there, also i consider influence from the Balkans in the establishment of Sumer so there's also transmission into Western and Central Europe and the Mediterranean, it certainly isn't just about Sumer, except when it comes to the best possible reconstruction through the texts.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

The Bavarian Illuminati was a very short lived organization, i would only take seriously evidence from their own writings, Free Masonry in general they tended to have disdain for seeing it as shallow and pretentious, they did wish to introduce their own Doctrine through it but i see little evidence for success, eradication of the greater part of humanity does not seem to have been one of their aims.

Fascinating topic. I have for some time wondered if the Illuminati (or some portion of it) are indeed the GOOD guys who have been working to defeat the bad guys. Take the Georgia Guidestones. WHY build them, WHY publicize them with this crazy cube story lately IF you are a secret society and want to hide your plans? You may have to reveal them, but you don't have to publicize them. The internet is buzzing with efforts to 'decode' the numbers and letters on the cube.

I'm going out on a limb here, but I think the Illuminati were trying to reveal plans put in place by the old world order in an effort to circumvent them. I don't think there is an ebola 'epidemic,' but there were plans in place to wipe out a large portion of the population.

If you take a look at what has happened over the last few years,I think we can all agree that the Vatican, the Royals and the US Corporation ,along with their various institutions, such as the media, medicine, the banks (who doesn't hate the banksters now???) and even things such as the NFL and the Academy Awards, have taken a huge public beating. One could argue that what is happening is the natural order of events. OR one could argue, based on what all we have learned about what goes on behind the scenes, that events are being manipulated and we are witnessing not a series of events based on cause and effect, but a controlled demolition of the 'old world order' for lack of a better world.

For those in the US, we witnessed the self immolation of the Republican Party at their convention, and now Obama has managed to snatch defeat from the hands of victory by his recent bumbling. People will resist new ideas, unless they can believe they are their own ideas. People will cling to the worst relationships, no matter how hopeless, until such time as they cannot be denied. I think the citizens of the US may finally be at the point where they have had enough.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Kantz,

I get what your saying here but I just dont see the significance.

So the Illuminati took from certain base ideals and beliefs while experimenting with abstract concepts of life and control. Got it!

Free Masonry is a system of self improvement steeped in allegory and hidden meaning based on ancient rites or ceremonial practices which may have been looked at by the Illuminati. Got it!

Maybe the Illuminati infiltrated certain lodges and infected them with their doctrine at some point. Ill buy that!

We can point to Mesopotamia and say the Sumerians also experimented with these concepts in some form or another. This is not a shocker for me.

What happened with the Illuminati was nothing special. The simple explanation is- like minded people got together that had a passion for learning the secrets of life and they chose a dynamic approach. They pulled from whatever they could find that had possible merit or meaning that might advance them toward enlightenment ( to me enlightenment is relative term).
This is in contrast to the other static beliefs that stay strictly obedient to their brand regardless if something had value or not. It was basically a matter of look around, chew the meat and spit out the bones. While Christianity is a static religion, many would argue that the Bible was put together with the same sort of dynamic approach.

I also recognize how money and power can degrade a group of people into thinking domination is their "secret" goal revealed to them through garbage spiritualism/occultism.

Enlightenment, illumination, Gnosis or whatever you want to label it IMPO is internal and not some external feature that can be viewed by others. I will submit that someone who believes himself or herself as being enlightened or illuminated may indeed have a certain Aura due to being in a state of understanding and peace but this would just be a positive radiation that is a byproduct of happiness/calmness.
The reverse of this would be an unhappy soul who knows the same "secrets" but fails to use them to attain happiness/calmness. This person would probably also have an aura but it would be much different due to the unhappy nature of his/her understanding. I know this is contradictory, but what I'm trying to explain is that being radiant or having an aura is not an absolute diagnosis of having obtained enlightenment per say. I tend to think of aura's or radiating affects of being as a natural mood ring visible to certain people or devices.

Ill admit this is all just abstract opinion on my part based on my reality so this may not resonate with others.

You come from the heart Kantz, I like that about you.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Sorry, I wasn't to clear there. Yeah, I kind of meant it in a roundabout way but by no means do I say it with any sort of negative connotation attached. I really enjoy your threads and the Sumerian spin on them and it is just me wanting to see your thorough research and interesting angles applied to other areas.

In a long winded reply, keep up the good work

a reply to: gwynned


Yes it should always be kept in mind that the actual Illuminati were against all forms of Government and religious institution and all about the liberation of the individual, the real mystery in all this is why they are projected as the ultimate bogeyman by so called contemporary conspiracy theorists, it's like some kind of weird joke...

"this is our GREAT SECRET. True, there may be some disturbance; but by and by the unequal will become equal; and after the storm all will be calm. Can the unhappy consequences remain when the grounds of dissension are removed? Rouse yourselves therefore, O men! assert your rights; and then will Reason rule with unperceived sway; and ALL SHALL BE HAPPY. *

Of course they set out to be as cunning as serpents in their methods of dissemination of their cause, but the vision they had in mind was hardly the New World Order of today, the approach was also the common one of it's day and others that employed it were rather more successful.

a reply to: Digital_Reality

I think they only used the term Illuminati in the sense of inner recognition of particular truths and Enlightenment in the general sense of it's day, as you say they weren't really anything special in the context of that age, except they had the radical fervour to try and implement their vision.

Their importance for myself lies in them recognizing that mythology and the parables of the Gospels were created with a specific purpose in mind and that in capturing the hearts and minds of humanity through such methods the end product could also be predicted, for example they look to the better position of women through Christian teaching as achieved almost by stealth, in reaching out to people through story rather than direct preaching.

It is the same with Sumerian mythology, a scholar class created a mythological paradigm were the expected result would be a peaceful and prosperous civilization were everyone had their role and moved forward together, of course all village communities had the local traditions and spiritual practice that had bound them as one, it was simply the case of adapting that for the larger stage, and that took sophistication.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Because the modern "Illuminati" is a distraction. They want people to think wealth, evil, greed and control is the ultimate way of living. So they use public fallguys like the Rockefellers and the Bush family to distort public opinion.

Money and power are two of the biggest distractions. It works very well. We have a planet of people who mostly believe making money and competing is the true way to live, all after the almighty dollar/yen/etc. So they don't focus on other goals, like spiritual sophistication or true "illumination".

That's just my take.

a reply to: Kantzveldt
I think the co-opting of the name is because its the smart thing to do. If you're all about keeping secret knowledge which keeps you in money and power... well any threat to that power must be destroyed.

And truth is self-evident... the fear they have is that people will see bavarian reasoning, and agree with it, because it is agreeable. I mean think about it, even the georgia guidestones sound like paradise. The problem lies in whether or not you are the chosen ones to live...

So the real illuminati (bankers, politicians, capitalists, industrialists, imperialists, monarchs) co-opt the name illuminati and dirty its name, so that people will automatically associate the two. Spread subliminal tidbits in cartoons and movies, just to throw people off the trail of the bavarian version. For if they were to discover that, they would be inspired!

And well, the media, music industry, hollywood, and so forth promote the idea that spirituality is phony, wrong, stupid. While sex, money, power, expensive possessions, subjugation of women, are all promoted.

I always think back to that skull and bones inscription promoting material goods and power:

"WHO WAS THE FOOL, BEGGAR OR KING? ALL'S THE SAME IN DEATH."

a reply to: Ridhya

Yes so simple misdirection, send your critics off chasing their own tail as it were, a group that would have been largely sympathetic to their concerns and a trail that historically leads nowhere as they were quickly dealt with, and in doing so make complete fools of them.


a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

Yes that's pretty much it, but when an actual wolf appears nobody will believe them...

Of course they would want to lead people away from their trail, even those - in fact ESPECIALLY those - who would be sympathetic. How sympathetic is the average follower of anything when it turns out things are not all to their liking? If you were sitting on a buried treasure that could either benefit or destroy the world, would you just hand it out like candy at Halloween to any zombie that knocked on the Gates of Heaven?

It's difficult not to measure a group of people other than from one's own sense of values and perspective, and however one might argue on behalf of their own perspective, it is limited by definition. We know so little about how the world really works and, if it is run, as many of us suspect, by Illuminated beings who have a much broader perspective and knowledge of how the world works, what chance do we have? On what basis can we evaluate and predict their behavior? The saying, 'In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king' pretty much says it all. The ONLY hope is that one of the Illuminated Ones would help us find a way out. If it is JC is at the top of the pyramid, all the better.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: Kantzveldt

Can the average person handle the truths about life, the universe, their place on the planet? Nope.

At this point in time humanity as a whole is not ready for the "secrets".

Are you sure about that? Let go of the ties that bind and we will see, something is AFRAID.

Time to hunt down that something, and get rid of it.

a reply to: gwynned
I've believed for years now that the eye in the pyramid symbol isnt the eye of god... but rather referring to "in the land of the blind" quote. Hence only one eye.

When you think about it, people in wealth and power always use underhandedness and cruelty and deceit to get what they want. They blind us, and even though they arent gods, their *slightly* better knowledge of science in the past made people think they were special (such as the egyptian priesthood); and in modern times, they blind us with propaganda and materialism while they profit off our suffering.

Its not about ultimate knowledge and understanding, its about keeping a slight advantage!

a reply to: gwynned

You're right i guess not everyone deserves candy except on Halloween, one to think about that.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: gwynned

You're right i guess not everyone deserves candy except on Halloween, one to think about that.

Perhaps this Halloween will be a Thriller. Interesting thread.

a reply to: gwynned
I was just rolling over this in my mind because I saw a repeat of America Unearthed where he talks about the guidestones, and the denver airport and all.

In the show and a lot of specials really, they say the same things about how everything is not sinister or deliberate and it all seems plausible enough, but the mural, the non-existent "New World Airport Commission" and giant black horse statue and all, they are too absurd to be coincidence methinks. But on to my point.

He talked to the guy who okayed the building of the guidestones (and the guy wouldnt reveal the builders identity and such) but he did reveal that the guy wanted something that would last forever, would impress people, and generate interest. The name RC Christian was supposedly to create mystery to get people intrigued.

The whole thing is huge, expensive, and useless, and since there are surveillance cameras watching it someone is STILL investing money into its existence, and yet they dont seem to mind people (including conspiracy types who are against it) spreading knowledge of it...

I dont imagine for a second that it is a 'good' monument, that is to say altruistic, not just because they mention culling the population down to 500mil and countless languages are excluded, but the whole thing just reeks of globalism, and I think its about promoting a one world government idea.

Thats not to say that the builders/illuminati/whatever who built it are inherently evil - in fact I would venture the exact opposite, that THEY BELIEVE they are doing/promoting good in the world, perhaps they are strictly of the ends-justifies-the-means type. But then again so was Hitler.

I think a more complete assessment of this mess is that it really is two-fold (or more) in its aim, like most psychological warfare really is! Two people view the same thing and interpret it two different ways, but both are beneficial to the controller:

1. anyone who believes they built it to support an evil depopulation plan will associate it with the illuminati, and thus further dissociate the world illuminati with the good bavarian one - meaning they never discover those good morals

2. anyone who believes it is altruistic and agreeable, will spread these ideas of globalism and believe that globalists are in it for the masses, rather than for power. Hah!

originally posted by: Ridhya
a reply to: gwynned
I was just rolling over this in my mind because I saw a repeat of America Unearthed where he talks about the guidestones, and the denver airport and all.

In the show and a lot of specials really, they say the same things about how everything is not sinister or deliberate and it all seems plausible enough, but the mural, the non-existent "New World Airport Commission" and giant black horse statue and all, they are too absurd to be coincidence methinks. But on to my point.

He talked to the guy who okayed the building of the guidestones (and the guy wouldnt reveal the builders identity and such) but he did reveal that the guy wanted something that would last forever, would impress people, and generate interest. The name RC Christian was supposedly to create mystery to get people intrigued.

The whole thing is huge, expensive, and useless, and since there are surveillance cameras watching it someone is STILL investing money into its existence, and yet they dont seem to mind people (including conspiracy types who are against it) spreading knowledge of it...

I dont imagine for a second that it is a 'good' monument, that is to say altruistic, not just because they mention culling the population down to 500mil and countless languages are excluded, but the whole thing just reeks of globalism, and I think its about promoting a one world government idea.

Thats not to say that the builders/illuminati/whatever who built it are inherently evil - in fact I would venture the exact opposite, that THEY BELIEVE they are doing/promoting good in the world, perhaps they are strictly of the ends-justifies-the-means type. But then again so was Hitler.

I think a more complete assessment of this mess is that it really is two-fold (or more) in its aim, like most psychological warfare really is! Two people view the same thing and interpret it two different ways, but both are beneficial to the controller:

1. anyone who believes they built it to support an evil depopulation plan will associate it with the illuminati, and thus further dissociate the world illuminati with the good bavarian one - meaning they never discover those good morals

2. anyone who believes it is altruistic and agreeable, will spread these ideas of globalism and believe that globalists are in it for the masses, rather than for power. Hah!

I could be wrong, but I think the person who built the monument was trying to PUBLICIZE the plan. Imagine you are part of the elite and 'in the know' about their plans but are a person of conscience. How do you circumvent their plans? You have to fight asymmetrically. Creating the Georgia Guidestones and now the bizarre footage of the cube being broken and handed out like a eucharist.... And notice how much of a buzz it made?

I am reminded of the movie AI - Artificial Intelligence. It's after the great flood (again!) and we are down to our 500 million immortals. They live lavish lives, served by robots who also function as their 'children.' Is that why Michael Jackson famously said 'I wouldn't want to LIVE in a world without children.'

I am starting to see this meme more and more, and I find it fascinating.

One thing I know to be true is that the Illuminati that currently exists differs drastically from its early incarnations.

There is, however, a conflict within between those who wish to continue down the same path, and those that wish to start using new concepts and tools that have only recently been introduced. More specifically, introduce a system that is meant to grow effectively rather than a specific, predictable amount in any given period. Its basically a battle between human hubris and natural order. A conflict which is manifesting from the top down.

Source: I am the Grand Master.

a reply to: gwynned
Yes, as I mentioned in that post, they were made to generate intrigue, and the creator made his name RC Christian deliberately to create interest out of mystery.

What cube footage are you talking about?

Yes there is a lot of (evil) illuminati movie symbolism. The Flood represents the culling of God, and as the wealthy illuminati see themselves as gods above the slaves, just as it is now: the wealthy live lives of pleasure and privilege, while slaves work for paper money. The 'robot servants' represent us of course - the brainless drones.