Have you had your placebo today?

*Mods I had no idea where to put this as it could fit in several forums, but since it seems like I'm whining about something, when in actuality I've given up on humanity a long time ago because logic coupled with rationality flew the coup a long time ago? Rant was the choice to plop it... by all means move it where ever.

On-wards...

So I was skimming forums and ran across a question similar to this: I think this house I'm going to move into is haunted/cursed/blah blah, do you think I'm going to have any issues?

So of course it got me thinking on one of the largest problems humanity faces... belief. Here's my definition of Human Belief: An idea anyone so dumbstruck by some phenomena they can't explain, or not found conclusive evidence of in scientific record decides to hold and chooses to accept an irrational explanation, because the momentary logic of whatever phenomena; simply makes sense and allows them some peace of mind.

Ghosts, angels, gods, spirits or whatever...

Works like a placebo, if you believe it will work there's a good chance it will. If you don't believe it will... it wont, because it's not real. Same thing with all beliefs, the power they hold is directly proportionate to ones belief in such things. Ie. if you believe and of this could cause you minor issues then minor issues you shall have... believe they will have a major impact on your life they will... don't believe? No effect.

Now here's the wrench in that system, religion is a belief and if you believe in it or not; it still can have an impact upon your life, because you have no choice. (The following is purely an example) I can't buy liquor on a Sunday, like it's sold any other day, because of this belief people hold for Sunday having some special meaning... this belief they hold, that I do not share... this thing and the things like them; affects my reality whether I like it or not, the same way many fighting personal holy wars in the middle East effects reality across the globe. To me this is no different than Trekkies arguing with Warsies which is one better... and we whom do not care have to sit and hear it whether we like it or not, and beyond our wishes have to get involved in this nonsense.

So if you think Atheists or non-believers are missing out on something, you are correct... but it's not the same missing out on, that you may think it is. If you think we have nothing to complain about you are incorrect. A belief is NOT REAL this fellow humans is a FACT. Belief in any form, is not real in any shape or form outside of your own mind. Sure others might believe the same shared delusion, but that still does not make it any realer or correct it is still a belief whether one believe it or 6 billion believes it... Wide acceptance of a belief; is the same as if a whole audience being fooled by a magic trick.

Imagine of you will; if 2/3rds of a city or town's population were to see a magic show, the magician opens a water bottle asks a trust worthy citizen (accomplice) from the audience to verify it was actually water, then were to take a chug some of it then spray light it with a lighter and emit a blazing inferno of fire breath from his mouth, 2/3rds the city or township amazed and shocked in horror that you can have fire breath from drinking water then run out to ban it, with pleas of... think of the children, for public safety or whatever else... then looked at you like you were crazy when you asked for water.

This is how absurd the world looks from the eyes of an atheist... and I don't mean just religious atheism, but ideals and everything else one can cling to to feel fuzzy in their personal bubble of safety from life... and say: The world would be better if we all just ______... this idea that we could all unite under one system or umbrella; for individual happiness, is as absurd as thinking water and a lighter gives you fire breath.

If I don't do or like something myself, I have this lovely almost magical little thing called: Tolerance. Well, there's a lot of things out there you water = fire breathing people do, that people like myself can no longer tolerate. Hate, higher gas prices, separatism, intolerance, racism, war, sexism, paranoia, crappy economy, fear of knowledge/change/new ideas... you truly are an albatross around the intellectuals neck, and an anchor that prevents the drift into human progress.

Well, you get idea... needless to say it's irritating that we've allowed the constitution to be interpreted (twisted) to say whatever the highest bidder wants it to say. The fact that there are any nanny laws governing any control over what you feed your mind or body... shows keeping the separation of church and state failed, any law that looks like a parent giving a child a privilege... is allowing them to play parent and control... the government of the US was never meant to parent just govern and protect the rights of the individual. Sure we've tried to go to a more universal law of the land over the decades, to avoid some draconian laws states still hold... but deciding to also carry moral authority laws over as well and also parent and control; is a direct affront to the constitution, as well as states rights to choose.

The end of this some would argue has become The United State, with a current policy of paranoid McCarthyism making the rules... and we sit here teetering wondering whether this will get worse or better? Time will tell, as an intellectual I have to say the odds are against us. If religious ideology vanishes, then another ideology takes it's place. If we are a healthy adult human being; then we can judge what works for our-self and what doesn't. Taking away those rights of an adult was never meant to happen, yet it has... and so deluded that the ideologies are you can point this out in a hundred ways and your neck will still fall under the boot, because that's just the way it is... and whether you are right doesn't matter in the slightest.

Your rant had me at 'no booze on a Sunday'. What god awful place restricts the supply of booze on a Sunday? I feel for you! But I also find that weird magic belief in an unknown just completely illogical, but if that's how they want to live that is ok by me - just keep it to yourself thanks. What saddens me is when religious groups label agnostic/atheists/etc as having no morality.

Just because I don't follow a fairy-tale doesn't make me a nasty savage out to get the world. In fact I think I show care and love to everyone around me, regardless of what they choose in life. I think for the most part that catholic/islam/christianity is something you just get born into and you are raised that way. That's fine.
I was raised differently, given the option to make my own choices and am glad thats how it was.

a reply to: Qumulys

The irony is thinking atheists live without a sense of tolerance, justice or world compassion and empathy, when those trying to claim the monopoly on it, more often than not display the exact opposite of those traits. If all of them claim to spread, love, tolerance peace and acceptance of their fellow man... where is it? I'm not seeing it, all I'm seeing is a peer reviewed accepted excuse to do the exact opposite of those principles on a daily basis, and then place the blame on some fictitious evil personified, then say sorry to yet another fictitious personification to make it all ok so you can sleep at night... all because you don't want to take personal responsibility for the things you say or do... oh, I can't be that horrible it must be the devil. Madness.

Belief is one of the most empowering attributes that human beings have.

When you walk into a Las Vegas Casino, are you going to walk in believing you're the luckiest person in the world, or someone who never wins, or the guy who meekly hopes he wins some of his money back?

I choose to believe in the power of belief.

Never underestimate the power of belief.

I don't respect all beliefs, but I respect your right to have whatever belief you want. Because I know a strong belief system, bs or not, can empower people to rise to great things. Or it can have the opposite effect. But the power of belief can never be downplayed or underestimated by those who know it's true worth.

(I am not spiritual/religious!)

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Yeah, they share their love amongst themselves, or try and bring you around to their beliefs first, or offer to help but can't help but add the 'drop in on over to the church' sentence somewhere along the way.

Oh well, I'm just not going in for the 'one of us, one of us' crowds. But I still will have a good yarn with anyone and share a cuppa no matter who they are. Even if they make me uncomfortable, I will give them some time and try to understand why I feel that way and analyse if my feelings are justified. More often than not I find it is just the not knowing them that's the problem.

For instance, I have a neighbour. He is a huge guy. First day I moved in he berated me for parking on the footpath... I tried to avoid him for the most part for a year. Then, he started to appear standing outside his house staring at his garden across from me at 3 am... Very weird. Went on for weeks until I caught him outside and it turned out he had changed to late afternoon/night shifts and loved listening to the insects and frogs and just having time to himself.

Turned out he had paid to make the footpath himself and the last resident had parked on it and cracked it all up. I'm glad I put aside my fear and got to know him because now if I need a hand with something I've got a guy like the incredible hulk next door who can moved a couch with me on it.

a reply to: Calalini

Believe what you want, just remember as hard as you believe in winning - something truly believable and testable like statistics tells us the 'house always wins'.

originally posted by: Calalini
Belief is one of the most empowering attributes that human beings have.

When you walk into a Las Vegas Casino, are you going to walk in believing you're the luckiest person in the world, or someone who never wins, or the guy who meekly hopes he wins some of his money back?

None of those, expectation only sets oneself up for possible disappointment. It's a Pavlovian game we've been taught to play. If I don't set myself up with preconceived notions about something I have no control over... then how could I possibly be disappointed?

Labeling myself as a bit of an agnostic puts me out on an island with the "Bible thumpers" and the "ranting" athiest. One thinks your going to hell, the other thinks you're a fairy tale believer.
What's giving your group a name is protesting Christmas with billboards and throwing a fit over baby Jesus at the courthouse. An athiest at work brought in coffee cups mocking Christianity. There were no Christian coffee cups, but he knew it would get a rise out of them. So, labeling all believers together is much like labeling all athiest together. Most people just can 't handle a different belief system other than their own. The other group is intellectually inferior.
And I would like to buy beer for the early Sunday game myself. Forgetting on Saturday sucks.

a reply to: TexasTruth

true the ideologists can fall into an extreme of intolerance as well, as far as I'm concerned it's whatever floats your boat but take responsibility for it capsizing another. its just astounding that the world is in chaos over fantasy, limiting freedom.... then at the other extreme? The same damn thing.

Atheists do have morals, well, some do see how that works?

SOME atheists, I'm sure (subconsciously) give two #s about morality.

You are here for no apparent reason, you live only once and nature, through her harsh methods of natural selection, is your mentor.


Whatever, Im not even going to elaborate, this discussion has been waged a thousand times this month alone, so I'm not even going to bother anymore

You are "tolerant"? Yet you just wrote a page long rant on people who dont share your opinions?


If you really are an atheist, THEN WHY CANT YOU ACCEPT MOTHER NATURE MAKES "STUPID" PEOPLE TOO? Why dont you have enough faith in evolutionary theory to believe that these people will be removed in due time by natural causes?

I am a spiritual person because I suddenly noticed a hidden aspect of reality that I did not know and had not been informed about. And yes I have had my energy flow today so I have gotten the placebo effect in my body.

The placebo effect is from my point of view a manipulation of the probability field that surrounds us all, that science have found with the double slit experiment where the field comes out as a probability wave. Synchronicity is another symptom of the field. To activate placebo you make an intention->manifestation and push energy into the intention->manifestation that will effect the probability field.

In a way faith works by assuming something A testing it and finding something B. A->B. When you have found the something B you can remove the faith A since the B is more spot on than the assumptions you made to get to B. If you do not find anything by assuming A you might wanna change and assume something else C to get to B.

I have no religion but know that religions have spiritual tools that you can learn to do things with. Reiki is a not religious spiritual tool since it does not care if you are atheist or religious. Meditation in all forms are also different spiritual tools that can be used without joining a specific view.

Also Atheists if you have a problem with Christians who say you are doomed if you do not belong to their faith. Tell them that Jesus said anyone who helps out someone in trouble have helped Jesus and is sheep and anyone who do not help out is a goat. Action proving what a person is. Matthew 25:31-46. Some Christians have no clue what Jesus taught and use their religion as a hypocritical clothing.

a reply to: NoNameNeeded

Morality and ethics are two different things... if you accept atheist as your label you run out to learn what is, so hence you are picking up a line and towing an ideology no different than religion... so you just traded one god for another, one banner for another... nothing actually changed.

a reply to: Qumulys

You know what's worse than no booze on Sunday? Chick Fil A is closed. What kind of # is that?

a reply to: Eunuchorn

Hey if you want a chicken sandwich? A lot. But since they lobby an extremist hate? Any chicken sandwich is a better choice.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Lobbying shouldnt exist in the first place; I'm not gonna forego the only good chicken nuggets around because we live in a broken & corrupt system, as shown by your OP.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Lobbying shouldnt exist in the first place; I'm not gonna forego the only good chicken nuggets around because we live in a broken & corrupt system, as shown by your OP.

Well, since money is in politics... the lobby system is the only thing preventing a monopoly. What if they made them made them out of homosexual chickens?

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Nugs are nugs, yo

a reply to: Eunuchorn

Then what does it matter if they are from chic fil a or not... if you are a walking contradiction then it would have been nice to know that to start with.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Ya, wtf are you talking about? I was implying that homosexual chicken nuggets would taste the same as straight chicken nuggets; the flavor is in the recipe. & I think everyone can agree that McDonald's & ChicFilA nuggets don't taste the same.


Getting back to the topic (if there is one), you don't support the integration of law & religion, but you support the integration of money & politics. Two sides of the same coin in my opinion. Have I misread your stance?

a reply to: Eunuchorn

Money is already in politics, it's the same as you and your nuggets who tastes best to them is what they are going to use their mouths on. It's biased. I;d rather money not be in politics at all just true democratic process with ethical people and if they do not represent the will of the people even once? bye bye the job isnt for you.