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Native Americans knew something that is blind to society.

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posted on Oct, 6 2014 @ 08:23 PM
Not just Native Americans. Many so called "savage" society had reverence for the Earth until Western Europeans came along. I often wonder how different things might be if the native Americans invaded Europe, instead of the other way around.

posted on Oct, 6 2014 @ 08:37 PM

originally posted by: babybunnies
I often wonder how different things might be if the native Americans invaded Europe, instead of the other way around.

And how would they have gotten there, in deerskin canoes?

posted on Oct, 6 2014 @ 08:59 PM

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: boncho
When rational argument fails and you have no science to back up your assertions---attack the messenger and run away fast. It makes for interesting reading sometimes but it does nothing to deny ignorance.

Predictable response for someone who doesn't/never have/had a foundation for debate. Here's a history lesson. I said, (not to you, but the OP):

Umm... You might wanna bone up on American Indian history, where they used to kill each other in pretty large numbers. Tribe vs. tribe, young warrior vs one that wants to prove himself. They were pretty apt with knives, tomahawk and bow. In any case, respect for the land, animals, and simply being content with what they had, at least that part is true.

Based on their interpretation that Natives were all love and rainbows, and they hugged everything out before white man showed up. You interloped and said:

a reply to: diggindirt
Perhaps it is you who need to bone up on American Indian history and culture. Like a lot of us, you were probably raised on "cowboys and Indians" flicks and the idea that the native inhabitants of North and South America were just murdering savages. That is the picture painted by European invaders for a few centuries.

Either you stand by the OPs position and you agree everything he said in the first post is true, or you don't. But we know you don't because you said later:

a reply to: diggindirt
Please show me where I claimed that native people in the Americas never committed violence against each other. I've repeatedly said there was violence. But there is a vast difference between incidents of personalized violence, ritual violence and wars of conquest.

Above, if you hadn't guessed. I said they weren't all peace and love, and they knew their way around weapons for killing each other. That was my statement. That was my only position in the thread. Anything that developed beyond that was simply banter.

I have no more of a position than that. I have no claims. Only that the Natives fought with each other, with outsiders and within their tribe and you know I am right in that.

You've done nothing but troll simply so you can blab your credentials. Either you agree with the OP like your first post suggest or you agree with me like your later post suggests. If you hadn't realized you were talking with yourself the rest of the thread.
edit on 6-10-2014 by boncho because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 6 2014 @ 09:05 PM

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

Can you provide any evidence to the contrary other than what appears to be your opinion?

No, because I'm sitting in my living room. Can you? I mean real evidence

Guess not.

A hundred millions indians, it is! What a joke.

posted on Oct, 6 2014 @ 10:58 PM
a reply to: boncho
Your highly emotional replies to my requests for evidence to back up your wild assertions show me that you must have a good deal of ego invested in your beliefs. I rest my case.

posted on Oct, 6 2014 @ 11:03 PM
a reply to: diggindirt
Sad thing is, they really believe the BS. Even when pointing out that a whole lot of the "savage stories" put out there was nothing but lies used as a tool to promote the big manifest destiny movement.

They wanted a rail line coast to coast, to hell with all the people living in the way. They needed them marginalized and demonized so that people had no qualms driving them off and killing those that refused to be driven off. And they talk about people gathering all the physical evidence and facts being revisionists? Yeah, they are, if you count exposing lies with evidence revisionist.

posted on Oct, 6 2014 @ 11:27 PM

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: boncho
Your highly emotional replies to my requests for evidence to back up your wild assertions show me that you must have a good deal of ego invested in your beliefs. I rest my case.

I don't have any wild assertions. My only intended comment in this thread was to the OP. My replies aren't emotional, they are methodical. You have shown what you are in your posting and what you are trying to achieve and it has nothing to do with a reasonable discussion, you simply want to boast and run off on topics related to you and your professional life because you feel we need to hear it, for what reason Im not sure. The topic was the topic is the topic. I made a post to the topic, you went off riding your own train. Read back on your own posts, you are not consistent and you were not making any points or having a discussion or debate, you were talking about and to yourself.

My first post was the only post I intended to make in this thread. I will refrain from taking any more of your bait from now on. Cheers.
edit on 6-10-2014 by boncho because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-10-2014 by boncho because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 7 2014 @ 12:58 AM
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The Crow Creek Massacre is prehistory's version of Waco on a grand scale, I suspect. A group of people bent on murdering others wiped out an entire village for some unknown reason. But did they continue this "war" by doing the same thing to the next village, and the one after that?
It has been observed that this massacre occurred at what seems to be a time of radically reduced resources in the area. There were lots of signs that they suffered fairly severe malnutrition and had been involved in conflict before, as evidenced by the healed wounds on the bodies.
I have no firsthand knowledge of this massacre but one of my colleagues was one of the last archaeologists to be allowed to study them before they were reburied. He paints a truly horrific picture.
I'm told that several of the academics who have studied these remains through the years have tried to follow the trail of the attackers and none have yet been able to do it. But it is an on-going study, to try and unravel the mystery of what caused this unusual behavior.
There's another massacre site in the southwest that's fairly famous and similar to the Crow Creek ossuary. I can't recall the name right now. Horrible slaughter and mutilations there also. If memory serves me I believe their bones showed extreme nutritional deprivation as well. Food is a powerful motivator.
But in neither case cited have there been any evidence discovered that pointed to a systematic war to acquire territory. In other words, we don't see any evidence that the killers at Crow Creek continued on down to the next village and repeated their murderous actions.
I've heard and participated in a lot of discussions about these sites, called anomalies in archaeology because they are sites of exceptional brutality and violence.
What sort of political power would one have to wield to gather enough people to attack and murder a village of upwards of 500 people? How many people would have to decide to turn to murder and mutilation for such a thing to happen?
Unless my memory fails me badly, I think there are some in the field who think that the Crow Creek massacre was roughly contemporary to the burial of the Important Man in Mound 72 at Cahokia. What sort of political power would it take to order the slaughter of more than 50 fertile females? Did those 50 fertile females offer themselves for slaughter in adoration of this Important Man whose grave they share?
These discussions resolve around theories about why the resources had disappeared in that area but apparently remained abundant in the Mississippi River valley as evidenced by the remains found in villages of a similar size just a few hundred miles down the river.
What I'd like to see would be genetic tests of those remains. I think that would give us plenty more theories and things to muddle over while consuming spirits at conferences.
I expect and hope to see that this mystery will be pursued by grad students for some time to come.

posted on Oct, 7 2014 @ 01:12 AM

originally posted by: solemind4
The Native Americans had ten commandments of their own...

OP, have you heard of the Los Lunas Decalogue Stone?

Seems pretty relevant to your topic...

originally posted by: LeftySinister
So a group of friends and I recently made the hike to Los Lunas Decalogue Stone. It’s an 80 ton rock out in the middle of nowhere that has the 10 commandments carved into it in a combination of an Ancient Semitic and Phoenician.

Of course it’s authenticity is surrounded by controversy. What I found most interesting was at the top of the mountain that the Mystery Rock rests near. Named “Mystery Mountain” it's littered all kinds of petroglyphs. There was a spot at the very top where more Semitic/ Phoenician was carved into a stone.

originally posted by: Cug
Outside of Los Lunas New Mexico there is a rock that seems to have part of the 10 Commandments (Decalogue) inscribed on it in ancient Hebrew. What I find most interesting was that when it first was discovered 1850 (Well the local native americans stated the rock pre-dated them coming into the area) this form of Hebrew was not understood. Kinda leaves out a forgery I'd say.

Here is a modern-day English translation of the Los Lunas Decalogue:

I am Jehovah your God who has taken you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slaves. There must be no other gods before my face. You must not make any idol. You must not take the name of Jehovah in vain. Remember the sabbath day and keep it holy. Honour your father and your mother so that your days may be long in the land that Jehovah your God has given to you. You must not murder. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not give a false witness against your neighbour. You must not desire the wife of your neighbour nor anything that is his.

After examining the Los lunas site geologist, George Morehouse, estimated the placement of this Decalogue inscription up to 3000 years ago, which would, again, date it around 1000 B.C.

The inscription has been translated by the Epigraphic Society as follows:

I (am) Jehovah [the Eternal] Eloah [your God] who brought you out of the land of Mitsrayim [Mizraim or the two Egypts] out of the house of bondages. You shall not have other [foreign] gods in place of (me). You shall not make for yourself molded (or carved) idols [graven images]. You shall not lift up your voice to connect the name of Jehovah in hate. Remember you (the) Sabbath to make it holy. Honor your father and your mother to make long your existence upon the land which Jehovah Eloah [the Eternal your God] gave to you. You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery (or idolatry). You shall not steal (or deceive). You shall not bear witness against your neighbor, testimony for a bribe. You shall not covet (the) wife of your neighbor and all which belongs to your neighbor.

originally posted by: win 52

And so a long time passed, and the Great Spirit gave each of the four races two stone tablets. Ours are kept at the Hopi Reservation in Arizona at Four Corners Area on 3rd Mesa.
I am not sure if this fits, but ledgend says that 2000 years ago the son of God walked with the Hopi people teaching them about this very thing. These might have been copied from the original stones.

People were already aware of the inscription when New Mexico became a territory in 1850, but no one could read it back then, mainly because the old-Hebrew or Phoenician alphabet in which this rock is inscribed was mostly unknown among scholars or archaeologists at that time.

originally posted by: YeHUaH ELaHaYNU
It is the best example of the only Monospace Alphabetic Script being the Paleo-Hebrew of the original Tablets -the first document written with the Alphabet- the 'mother script' that went out with the exile of Israel and captivity of Judah in Babylon.

Of greatest importance was the Zodiac Table /Starchart at the Northernmost point of the Mesa which has a YaH in Libra commemorating a Solar Eclipse on September 27, 759 BCE revealing several planets in alignment which explains the glyph (found worldwide!) as a sounding together of the vowels in a descending scale of tones (iy eh uw oh uh ah).

This place has the name of GOD written severally within the "Commandments" on the massive boulder below, and also in the Altar at the highest place conscripted to the Biblical LORD YeHaUaH, which is situated exactly 60 miles due NW of Trinity where the first Atomic Bomb was detonated (officially) on the same plain.

originally posted by: borracho
I know that this is an old thread, but I wanted to share what I know about the mystery stone anyway. The markings were cleaned and deppened by people from the University of New mexico in an attempt to make it more legible and easier to translate. This happened in the 1980's, I don't know the exact date. That is why the carvings look newer than they are. There have been other translations made of the carvings. Some have said it is not hebrew in origin, but possibly ancient greek or phoenician and is a tale of the warrior Zakyneros that was isolated and struggling to survive in the wilderness here. It is a very interesting find and the Native American tribes of the area knew of the stones existince. They have stated that the stone pre dates their history here. It amuses me how things are well known by the locals but are never "discovered" until a white man sees it.

Many people don't know that the Native American Indians knew the sacred name YHWH - (GOD - The Father) - before others ever came to this land... YHWH's name is all through the history, the songs, the stories and the ways of life of the Eastern Shawnee, Eastern Cherokee, Powhatan, Hopewell and Fort Ancients... Although there are a few spelling variations and/or attributes - YHWH - YHVH - YOWAH - YaHWeH - YaHVeH - YeHoWaH - YeHehaWaHeha - YoHehaWavoHe - Yodh Heh Wah Heh... They all are the name of the Eternal Creator of heaven and earth.

posted on Oct, 7 2014 @ 01:15 AM
a reply to: solemind4
Thanks for the post. Contributing to it has brought back a lot of very happy memories for me and a few really sad ones as well.
I've met and listened to many native elders from many different cultural groups and I would bet not one of them would disagree or find fault with your list.
I found the view of one Navaho grandmother particularly interesting. When asked about the decline of Navaho society she asserted, "The whole culture went to hell in a basket when we stopped swinging our babies to sleep on a cradle-board." That dear lady captured it well. When the extended family was broken into individual units...things went really bad quickly.

posted on Oct, 7 2014 @ 02:00 AM
a reply to: Murgatroid

How can we know the native americans knew the name of god? If the hebrews can't even pronounce it now, I doubt some indians ever could have.

Wasn't the name pronounciation only meant to be known to a select few high priests? If the native americans did know the name and could pronounce it, it could be a very interesting historical tangent.

posted on Oct, 7 2014 @ 06:33 AM
a reply to: solemind4

If you can fully understand number 10, you will be on the right track.

posted on Oct, 7 2014 @ 07:07 AM

originally posted by: diggindirt
The Crow Creek Massacre is prehistory's version of Waco on a grand scale, I suspect.

I am not going to speculate on what the motivating factor may be, I simply supplied an instance of pre-Columbian violence to satisfy the demands of several posters.

There is additional evidence in the book I cited that violent trauma rates range from 6-32% over various regions of North America. I would wager that the higher end is far above modern rates in even the most violent of places in North America which demonstrates that there were indeed Native American cultures where violence was ingrained into the behavior.

posted on Oct, 7 2014 @ 07:13 AM

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
a reply to: solemind4

Ironic that today the vast majority of countries with majority white populations are among the most civilized throughout the world.

This "blame whitey for all our problems" sounds like something the Nation of Islam or Black Panthers would preach.

Equally ironic that most NA groups are forced to live on reservations.

Blame the white man indeed.

posted on Oct, 7 2014 @ 08:45 AM
a reply to: solemind4

Except for the part about where women did all the work.

fyi - The most successful American Aboriginal tribes were fully or partially run by women (matriarchal), for example the Ojibwe.


posted on Oct, 7 2014 @ 05:17 PM
a reply to: Dark Ghost

Even more ironic is the Idea of a civilized society came from Ancient Egyptians and The Moors (Black / Negroid People in appearance) they popularized the idea of a civilized society teaching Mathematics, Agriculture, Architecture, Science etc. to the Europeans during their Dark Ages where they ate each other and were a barbaric race. This is the history of the world not American HIS-Story, not African HIS-Story but World History

posted on Oct, 7 2014 @ 05:21 PM
a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

the Native Americans come from one of the 12 tribes of Israel, so does the African American from the tribe of Judah. Look it up, it's in the bible even the internet. I can post a link if you like but it should be relatively easy to find

posted on Oct, 7 2014 @ 08:06 PM
a reply to: Thoughts

I have heard of that, but my time is usually taken up by study and research in my field, or trying to relax and not use my brain.

It's likely something I'll end up looking at over my summer holidays, so if you have a link feel free to post it.

posted on Oct, 7 2014 @ 08:47 PM

originally posted by: Thoughts
a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

the Native Americans come from one of the 12 tribes of Israel, so does the African American from the tribe of Judah. Look it up, it's in the bible even the internet. I can post a link if you like but it should be relatively easy to find

I'm intrigued by the back and forth about this issue. The DNA testing seems to be pretty clear in some presented here:

Conclusions DNA vs. The Book of MormonScientific studies conclusively show that the major claim of the Book of Mormon that Israelites are the principle ancestors of Native Americans is false. In fact, there are no Native American populations that share ancestry with Israelites. Attempts to wiggle out of the obviously false claims of the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants simply invalidate large amounts of Mormon “scripture.”

But then this is a scholarly paper that seems to bring some of the evidence into question:

Conclusions The Book of Mormon is not a volume about the history and origins of all American Indians. A careful reading of the text clearly indicates that the people described in the Book of Mormon were limited in the recording of their history to events that had religious relevance and that occurred in relatively close proximity to the keepers of the annals. The fact that the DNA of Lehi and his party has not been detected in modern Native American populations does not demonstrate that this group of people never existed or that the Book of Mormon cannot be historical in nature. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.[76] Further, the very idea of locating the genetic signature of Lehi’s family in modern populations constitutes a truly untestable hypothesis since it is not possible to know the nature of their genetic profiles. Without our knowing the genetic signature to be located, any attempt at researching it will unavoidably result in further assumptions and untestable hypotheses....

DNA studies and the associated jargon just leave my head spinning but from a quick scan of articles I can find it seems that the evidence is pointing to at least one of the lost tribes of Israel has been found in Africa.

As the cost of the technology to do DNA testing comes down and the accuracy increases, we may all get to find out just who our ancestors were!

posted on Oct, 7 2014 @ 08:51 PM
a reply to: diggindirt

Just quickly because I'm so lazy - have you any idea who native americans share traits with? I'd be curious to know that, for sure.

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