originally posted by: tinner07
I think we really need to consider grabbing their caliphate and any spouses/children he has. Turn them all over to a group that are willing to
Slow non lethal torture in front of the caliphate. Let him feel the pain of somebodies suffering.
If he has any human emotions he should denounce violence. Videotape that and broadcast it to the muslim extremists.
Perhaps he has no human emotions, if that is the case exterminate him.
I understand your point, but I think that people are failing to grasp just why these people are willing to go to such lengths. They feel they have
their religion on their side. This has been common throughout history, and has allowed for some of the most barbaric acts, perpetrated by various
religions. Let's take Christianity for instance, which throughout time was used as justification for certain atrocities. These acts stemmed from a
complete misunderstanding of the teachings of the religion itself, and over time the truth was heeded by more and more people, until we've eventually
reached a point today where the original teachings of Jesus are understood to a much greater extent by the majority. The leaders still commit
atrocities, but it is more government leaders than religious leaders nowadays. The problem with Christianity hundreds of years ago is that the
majority of its followers were uneducated, and they basically did what they were told from those holding the religious power. Many could not even read
the Bible to determine what it taught, and often times they couldn't understand Latin, the language in which masses were read. The Catholic Church
was the end all be all of the Christian religion, and people believed the pope to be God's emissary on earth, and they were blindly obedient. Most of
the corruption existed at the top levels, not with the people.
Because of this people were quite willing to believe whatever the church told them, and to go along with it all. In that instance you had a severe
corruption of religion, and the church was not justified by the teachings of that religion. The Crusades for instance are in no way backed up by the
teachings of Jesus, which is essentially what Christianity is. The Old Testament justifies it a bit more, but Jesus said that he essentially replaced
those older beliefs with a new system, a system of compassion and forgiveness, among other noble qualities. I feel that Islam does allow the type of
violence we're seeing, and that those who practice it are justified where the teachings of their religion are concerned. Therefore they are quite
bold, as they know they have their religion on their side. So while the majority have come to realize that the religious atrocities committed by the
Christians were not justified by Christian teachings, and therefore such barbaric acts were discontinued, this point will never be reached by Muslims.
If they do not engage in violence or extremism it is not because their religion does not allow it, but for some other reason. What I really wanted to
get across was that these terrorists are never going to stop because it can never be proven that they are not religiously justified, and like any good
Muslim they are going to follow the teachings of Islam, including the tenets of Jihad and punishing non-believers. These people are very devout if you
think about it, and that is all they're trying to be. So we should be condemning the religion as much as we are condemning them, again because the
religion itself is what is allowing these things. If it did not intend to allow these things then it should have not been so contradictory, where in
one passage teaching compassion and then in another teaching extreme and barbaric violence. And even in the Old Testament, which was a book derived by
Jews and not Christians, most of the instances of violence are presented in a more historical fashion, where God supposedly did this or that or said
this or that to help someone. That was directed at a specific time and place, and was not meant to be a teaching to live by for future generations.
That is like when people claim the "eye for an eye, and tooth for a tooth" is something that is taught be Christianity, when this is not the case at
all and simply proves the fact that the person making the claim has no idea what they're talking about. Again it is not a Christian writing, and even
more importantly it was not presented as something taught by God or as something to be followed by the Jewish people. Yet if one starts reading the
Quran the wording and teachings are completely different, and it is very easy to see why a modern day follower feels justified in barbaric acts. So
for those who say that these extremists are the problem, they are only semi-correct. In this instance it is also the fault of Islam in general, again
because the teachings of violence are within the doctrine itself, the doctrine to live by, rather then these things being presented as something that
happened in the past. And then there is the fact that Muhammed himself engaged in all types of violence. I highly doubt he would have outlawed such
things, otherwise he would have been quite hypocritical.