Do you love God, or do you love Satan?

originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: Nechash

"Those who fight for the interest of self and humankind are probably the only sane ones around."

Some among us gaze Heaven-ward, and bide their mortality until the start of their real life, in the
embrace of God.

Meanwhile we must cope with their preparations for eternity;

far too often we get tangled in their zeal.

All hail the monarchy. All bow to the fuhrer. Death to democracy and the power of the people. Hail our supreme overlord, the all-assimilating cosmic dictator. Huzzah, huzzah.

a reply to: Diderot

We are correct and others are otherwise.

You are saying of temperature, "We are hot and they are cold." Degrees are a measurement of the same thing. Axioms become contradiction and paradox as they approach higher axioms. You can say a train whistle changes pitch as it passes by. A train engineer can say it doesn't as he rides along with the whistle. What higher axiom solves the paradox?

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: Diderot

We are correct and others are otherwise.

You are saying of temperature, "We are hot and they are cold." Degrees are a measurement of the same thing. Axioms become contradiction and paradox as they approach higher axioms. You can say a train whistle changes pitch as it passes by. A train engineer can say it doesn't as he rides along with the whistle. What higher axiom solves the paradox?

axioms are self-evident statements. so what exactly is a higher axiom, and how does it approach contradiction?

originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: arpgme

Hello arpgme,

"The enemy/adversary (satan) wants you to be hateful, that's the whole point of being an enemy/adversary. It requires hatred in order to exist."

Hatred is a pathology that destroys the soul.

When we hate, we diminish Humanity.

I acknowledge the presence of evil and injustice in our world,

but hatred does not enrich you or me.

Yes. We should not feed the adversary/enemy/satan what it wants (hatred/violence). When we turn the other cheek and keep living through Love and Peace, there will be a lot more peace.

originally posted by: arpgme

originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: arpgme

Hello arpgme,

"The enemy/adversary (satan) wants you to be hateful, that's the whole point of being an enemy/adversary. It requires hatred in order to exist."

Hatred is a pathology that destroys the soul.

When we hate, we diminish Humanity.

I acknowledge the presence of evil and injustice in our world,

but hatred does not enrich you or me.

Yes. We should not feed the adversary/enemy/satan what it wants (hatred/violence). When we turn the other cheek and keep living through Love and Peace, there will be a lot more peace.

there is a place for both ends of the spectrum. you cannot have a one sided coin.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: Diderot

We are correct and others are otherwise.

You are saying of temperature, "We are hot and they are cold." Degrees are a measurement of the same thing. Axioms become contradiction and paradox as they approach higher axioms. You can say a train whistle changes pitch as it passes by. A train engineer can say it doesn't as he rides along with the whistle. What higher axiom solves the paradox?

axioms are self-evident statements. so what exactly is a higher axiom, and how does it approach contradiction?

In the example I provided, the friend and train engineer each have an axiom based on frame of reference. The perspective of the friend sees the train go by and the hears the whistle change pitch. The train engineer argues with him and says the whistle stays the same. There is an evident contradiction. The Doppler Effect is the higher axiom. It shows you that both sides are true, but frame of reference dictates impression by perspective. Once you know the Doppler Effect, you might then observe that Doppler Shift between communicating space vehicles creates another effect that contains paradox. Resolution again comes from a higher axiom. Eventually, you find one set of laws that governs the entire thing. If you knew the set of laws, and could also see the correspondences, you would then have mastery over all physics. This is the goal of mankind in case you have not noticed.

a reply to: TzarChasm

originally posted by: TzarChasm
there is a place for both ends of the spectrum. you cannot have a one sided coin.

Not everything is a coin; and just because something exists that doesn't mean it has to have a "place" in our lives.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: TzarChasm

originally posted by: TzarChasm
there is a place for both ends of the spectrum. you cannot have a one sided coin.

Not everything is a coin; and just because something exists that doesn't mean it has to have a "place" in our lives.

In my experience a pendulum that doesn't swing is a broken one. Find me something in nature that doesn't incorporate the pendulum principle at some critical level. There are always two sides because there is always an equal and opposite reaction.

originally posted by: AlephBet

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: Diderot

We are correct and others are otherwise.

You are saying of temperature, "We are hot and they are cold." Degrees are a measurement of the same thing. Axioms become contradiction and paradox as they approach higher axioms. You can say a train whistle changes pitch as it passes by. A train engineer can say it doesn't as he rides along with the whistle. What higher axiom solves the paradox?

axioms are self-evident statements. so what exactly is a higher axiom, and how does it approach contradiction?

In the example I provided, the friend and train engineer each have an axiom based on frame of reference. The perspective of the friend sees the train go by and the hears the whistle change pitch. The train engineer argues with him and says the whistle stays the same. There is an evident contradiction. The Doppler Effect is the higher axiom. It shows you that both sides are true, but frame of reference dictates impression by perspective. Once you know the Doppler Effect, you might then observe that Doppler Shift between communicating space vehicles creates another effect that contains paradox. Resolution again comes from a higher axiom. Eventually, you find one set of laws that governs the entire thing. If you knew the set of laws, and could also see the correspondences, you would then have mastery over all physics. This is the goal of mankind in case you have not noticed.

Thank you for answering. I have two things to address here. First, axioms. I disagree with how you broke it down. Rather than their individual frames of reference establishing separate axioms, the axiom would be the physical laws responsible for both frames, as they would then each support that law. The joint in the fork is the axiom...and I'm not sure that can even be called an axiom as it is not self evident without proper investigation. Second, you seem to be implying that in trying to equal god we are insulting him. No good parent is insulted by the possibility of their child equalling or surpassing them. That's childish and selfish at least.

And one more thing...we are not trying to master physics. Or not like you mean it anyway. The most we can do is develop the optimal partnership with the physical laws of this universe, not rewrite them completely. Because if that were possible it would cause havoc if not carefully contained. Possibly destroy us all. Ye hubris...

a reply to: TzarChasm

The joint in the fork is the axiom...and I'm not sure that can even be called an axiom as it is not self evident without proper investigation.

You only consider the law an axiom because you know the law. A supposed caveman has an axiom that, "fire hot," but that is as high into the self-evident truth as he goes. Don't forget, an axiom is a postulate that is a premise or starting point of reasoning. Fire Hot turns into, "breath makes fire hotter." Why? That's always the question to answer. You can never stop asking why until have exhausted all possible questions. This is the nature of rising to new life. Ultimately, we are all on Jacob's ladder to a junction of sorts. Once we master one law (Love), then all things are revealed to us. That process starts here, but ends when one bit of information ends all questions. Faith eventually leads to fact, but he struggle to ignite the hope of faith is the very catharsis that leads to pathos.

Read this: Predictable Pattern is the Truth of Law

a reply to: AlephBet

I don't actually consider the doppler effect or whatever causes that sound thing to be an axiom. It took science to define it, after all. Before that it was a mystery, which is not an axiom. And again, we do not master laws, we master our PARTNERSHIP with them. They do not obey us. But we can exploit them. And the only faith that leads to fact is the faith that there is a fact to be found. Which isn't really faith because there's always some kind of fact at the end of the road if you follow it far enough. and stop linking me to your BS threads, I have a hard enough time making sense out of what you post right here, not through any fault of my own if the abundance of participation in your threads *cough cough* is anything to measure by.

originally posted by: Diderot

When we pass, all that remains is what we have done.

That may be dust upon the rubble of history,

or it may be widespread gratitude for a life well lived.

Do tell us o' wise one, how many times have you died?

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Diderot

When we pass, all that remains is what we have done.

That may be dust upon the rubble of history,

or it may be widespread gratitude for a life well lived.

Do tell us o' wise one, how many times have you died?

Have you any evidence to suggest otherwise? I feel it is a reasonable assumption but I am open to reasonable alternatives. If you have any I would like to read them.

a reply to: TzarChasm

"All hail the monarchy. All bow to the fuhrer. Death to democracy and the power of the people. Hail our supreme overlord, the all-assimilating cosmic dictator. Huzzah, huzzah."

Perhaps I am confused, but you post seems to be saying that the denial of God leads to the death of democracy.
I can't tell if the supreme overlord is God almighty or Barack Hussein O.

a reply to: AlephBet

"You are saying of temperature, "We are hot and they are cold." Degrees are a measurement of the same thing. Axioms become contradiction and paradox as they approach higher axioms. You can say a train whistle changes pitch as it passes by. A train engineer can say it doesn't as he rides along with the whistle. What higher axiom solves the paradox?"

Objective truth is not a measure of scale such as hot and cold. I think a better analogy would be matter and antimatter.

The truth of the cosmos is not dependent upon our vantage point.

A paradox is simply a place holder that currently signifies our inability to fully comprehend nature.

As the Human intellect matures, paradoxes melt away.

originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: TzarChasm

"All hail the monarchy. All bow to the fuhrer. Death to democracy and the power of the people. Hail our supreme overlord, the all-assimilating cosmic dictator. Huzzah, huzzah."

Perhaps I am confused, but you post seems to be saying that the denial of God leads to the death of democracy.
I can't tell if the supreme overlord is God almighty or Barack Hussein O.

God is by definition a dictator and his religion the death of democracy.

a reply to: Bone75

"Do tell us o' wise one, how many times have you died?"

I believe that we are blessed with but one life, Grasshopper.

One life. One death.

originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: Bone75

"Do tell us o' wise one, how many times have you died?"

I believe that we are blessed with but one life, Grasshopper.

One life. One death.

you dont believe in reincarnation?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
In my experience a pendulum that doesn't swing is a broken one. Find me something in nature that doesn't incorporate the pendulum principle at some critical level. There are always two sides because there is always an equal and opposite reaction.

Yes, nature has a polarity between two opposite sides, but I wasn't speaking about nature. I was speaking about the essence of The Eternal God which is Light and Love, and rebellion against The Eternal God. The Eternal God was, is, and will continue to be - while rebellion against The Eternal (Light/Love) is just a reaction to that which is Eternal; so God and rebellion are not a polarity because rebellion is not an "equal" opposite of God, since only God is Eternal and the rebellion is temporary.

With their own free-will, everyone will one day realize that only God (Love and Light) is Eternal and is the only way to Peace.

a reply to: TzarChasm


"God is by definition a dictator and his religion the death of democracy."

Sometimes sarcasm can be like a cobra held by the tail.

TzarChasm is a cunning snake charmer.

Keep up the good work!