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When Great Minds Colide (Dawkins/Chopra)

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posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 04:03 AM
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The great Atheist meets the spiritual Guru...

Richard Dawkins interviews Deepak Chopra

As the video starts you can see that Dr. Chopra was clearly intimidated by Dr. Dawkins... but it seems that the answers given eventually had no response...

This wasn't really a debate in any case, but I seem to think that Dawkins was expecting to walk all over the interviewee

Yet that wasn't the case at all...

Take a look if you have a few minutes...

I enjoyed this "interview"... to say the least




edit on 2-10-2014 by Akragon because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 04:49 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

Every time I hear this guy speak I wish more would listen. He always comes off as less a charlatan like some say and more a truth seeker. His main point constantly seems to be that we undervalue the power of consciousness and subjectivity. Science has reached the point where we're starting to see that objective observation has limits. The very act of observation involves participation in what you observe.

My favorite point is that if you tell someone with cancer they have 6 months to live and they believe you you've made it more likely. This is incredibly true. We apply this philosophy readily and to great effect with sports. I don't think anyone out there would question that the Victor of any physical contest depends not only on talent, biology, and preparedness but also attitude and confidence. Sports is filled with underdog stories as well as epic chokes as well as other cases of mind over matter.. My absolute favorite of these is the story of the '___' no hitter.

nypost.com...

I know for a fact that I test so well because I do not fear the outcome nor stress over it all.When I was in school I regularly outperformed students of equal or greater intelligence who worked much harder than me because they had so much fear and worry and stress. If you read any modern AP/SAT study guide they always include a section on test tips which covers not only mundane details like having pencils or water but also stresses that you should get a good nights sleep and try not to worry/stress.

I also see the difference in attitude asking my paternal aunts and uncle and my father. My father and one aunt suffered greatly in life suffering many defeats and eventually just gave into despair. Two of my aunts and one uncle just never stop being optimistic even in spite of their defeats. The ones who stayed positive are happier, healthier, and more active than the ones who didn't. I'm literally watching my father slip into his father's same style of decline only 15 years earlier and without the catalyst of his wife dying. It's all because he's convinced he's old and declining despite the fact that he is physiologically completely healthy.

Chopra's style of mixing modern scientific theories with spiritual/philosophical ideas is the future of human advancement. The real issue as he himself says is can we survive the coming trials long enough to see it come to fruition? The alternative is to stagnate or die because we couldn't let go of what we think about ourselves. A lot of the issues we see every day probably result from people seeing human nature as negative being a self reinforcing meme.



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 06:06 AM
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posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 06:24 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 09:22 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

Thank you for that Akragon.


I had not taken the time to listen to this Man before, although I knew of him.

Such a wise and forthright sage.

Will look further into his philosophy ... it strikes a chord with me.

Wisdom - would be the one word I would use - to be brief ; yet acute.


S&F



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 09:28 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

Unfortunately, Chopra is trying to come down to Dawkins level in order to communicate with him and seeing him in this darkened, anxious state is almost heart wrenching. I don't 100% agree with everything Chopra says, but I think embracing the mystical journey that is life is a good starting point. We just have to figure out how to walk this road without harming anyone and without losing ourselves along the way. I guess ultimately, this is where courage must necessarily kick in. Paralysis through analysis and fear is and always will be fruitless. Thanks for sharing!



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 12:58 PM
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Glad everyone enjoyed it...

Im quite used to seeing Dawkins rip people apart...

I wasn't expecting little to no returns... At one point he does try to counter a few of Chopra's points to no avail...

Good stuff though




posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 02:35 PM
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originally posted by: Nechash
a reply to: Akragon

Unfortunately, Chopra is trying to come down to Dawkins level in order to communicate with him and seeing him in this darkened, anxious state is almost heart wrenching. I don't 100% agree with everything Chopra says, but I think embracing the mystical journey that is life is a good starting point. We just have to figure out how to walk this road without harming anyone and without losing ourselves along the way. I guess ultimately, this is where courage must necessarily kick in. Paralysis through analysis and fear is and always will be fruitless. Thanks for sharing!


I know Chopra speak on a higher level and try to speak in meta understanding instead of descriptive precision. But to be fair if Chopra did put a little more work into it he might do both from my point of view. It will be hard to reach Dawkins who likes the group vs group and thrive on it. But others might listen more to Chopra if he did. Both love Chopra and at the same time think he is a bit lazy in his approach.
.

To those who like quantum theory. Probability waves and Synchronicity. Notice the connection?

But this video is really funny to me.



I love how this video will be used as and example "how dogma thinking can cloud your thinking in the future".
edit on 2-10-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

I enjoyed that a lot so thanks for posting it


Although I've been disappointed by Dawkins' sense of certainty in the past, I fully expected him to leave Chopra's views in tatters. Those first few minutes were uncomfortable to watch and Chopra was clearly not enjoying it. No wonder really as they both stood out in the open with implicit lack of defences.

Despite that, Chopra warmed up and actually began to maintain eye-contact. Dawkins needled when necessary and was a polite interviewer in the same way he was with the Archbishop of Canterbury a few years ago.

It's possible Dawkins went into the interview with the same expectations I did. I thought Chopra would waffle on with aetheric generalities and cite evidence that would be easily refuted. Instead, he expressed the notions of human subjectivity/consciousness affecting physical and mental health in ways that weren't immediately taken as New Age garbage.

There was a subtle middle ground that's lost on most people. Chopra wasn't denying the facts of evolution or leaning on 'supernatural' as an explanation for the human condition. Likewise Dawkins seemed to agree that some of his arguments had a rational, evidential quality.



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 05:14 PM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

If you wanna see a debate where they fight like in a boxing ring you might wanna see this one.



edit on 2-10-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 05:21 PM
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You ever met Chopra? I doubt he was intimidated.

However, he may have felt uncomfortable with Dawkins style.



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 11:17 PM
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a reply to: LittleByLittle

I watched it several years ago and was entirely with Dawkins. However, I've mellowed and become more able to listen before making a decision. Sometimes it isn't even necessary to make a decision.

I'll watch it again just to compare my first reaction to now. Last time, I was hoovering up the work of Dennet, Dawkins and suchlike. This time, I'll listen first...



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 11:32 PM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

To be fair Chopra did not exist on my Radar at all if I go back 5 years and I am not sure I would have understood what he talks about 5 years ago.
.
edit on 2-10-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 11:33 PM
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Dawkins is a fool. His attitude is a sign of the times when minds are closed and materialism is on the up and up.


"The only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing"
Socrates



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 11:36 PM
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originally posted by: LittleByLittle
a reply to: Kandinsky

To be fair Chopra did not exist on my Radar at all if I go back 5 years and I am not sure I would have understood what he talks about 5 years ago.
.




I can't say if he's legit or not, but his energy presence is amazing.

You feel like you can conquer the world.



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 11:55 PM
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a reply to: DrunkYogi




His attitude is a sign of the times when minds are closed and materialism is on the up and up.


Quite an assertion. Materialism has been among the most book-burned philosophies of history, with entire libraries of such knowledge and thinking suppressed. People have been put to the flames for espousing such views, even today, condemned as heretics. Speaking of closed minds.

That being said, both Chopra and Dawkins are dogmatists. Neither of them are fools, and both know this, and I think Chopra decided to speak in a language everyone can understand, rather than resort to the empty wisdom he usually sells to those of the Oprah book club.



posted on Oct, 3 2014 @ 12:01 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope



Neither of them are fools, and both know this, and I think Chopra decided to speak in a language everyone can understand, rather than resort to the empty wisdom he usually sells to those of the Oprah book club.


Quite possibly. He made some eloquent rhetorical statements that were certainly rehearsed. Likewise, I felt that some of his statistics had been 'crammed' on the morning of the interview.

Just my impression.



posted on Oct, 3 2014 @ 12:06 AM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

I like the guy. I think he means well. But I can find very little in his "wisdom".

Check out this site. It's good for a laugh:


It has been said by some that the thoughts and tweets of Deepak Chopra are indistinguishable from a set of profound sounding words put together in a random order, particularly the tweets tagged with "#cosmisconciousness". This site aims to test that claim! Each "quote" is generated from a list of words that can be found in Deepak Chopra's Twitter stream randomly stuck together in a sentence.


wisdomofchopra



posted on Oct, 3 2014 @ 12:06 AM
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Dawkins is a fool. His attitude is a sign of the times when minds are closed and materialism is on the up and up.


In a way he is blind and if you look at the double slit experiment and entanglement he should know his materialism is already disproven. You never know he might be less close minded than he acts and use it to make money. Because lets face it he is living on being the fundamentalist atheist who bashes all spiritual expression even people who have no religion but are meditating and find something.

He is clearly intelligent and he has a point that religions need to grow up from the dogmatic faith while us not building up atheistic dogma.



I can't say if he's legit or not, but his energy presence is amazing. You feel like you can conquer the world.


He seem to understand the placebo and nocebo effect very well. Sometimes he speaks in META where the words are meant to open awareness but not be taken literally. That sometimes makes my logical mind go (To imprecise to be a correct model of what I am experiencing). I think it was this video that both liked on a higher META level but got annoyed at in a logical viewpoint.


edit on 3-10-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2014 @ 12:30 AM
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a reply to: LittleByLittle

Your right LBL, maybe blind is a better word.



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