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originally posted by: sacgamer25
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
The same bible you discredit is the same bible that predicts God will rise up Babylon in the last days and Babylon will rule the world. Babylon refers to Nimrods. Nimrod was a warrior who stood proud on top of the blood of his brothers that he just conquered, a man without remorse for taking human life.
It looks like Babylon is rulling the world, men without remorse. But the fall of Babylon is also predicted, to be replaced by truly enlightend leaders, men who do not,justify murder and seek peace before war, using war only in defense of one's freedom.
Men who follow the path of the enlightened one's, whos paths always lead to love and eternal life. The enlightened will rise in the age of Christ.
originally posted by: sacgamer25
scientifically proven history?
originally posted by: sacgamer25
a reply to: Krazysh0t
What does the bible teach that is contradictory to scientifically proven history? I find no contradictions between the bible and history myself.
originally posted by: sacgamer25
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
Im talking about debating origins and floods. Science cannot disprove Creation or Noahs flood. But after Exodus the bible is considered quite accurate historically plausible, based on archeological evidence.
originally posted by: sacgamer25
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
Im talking about debating origins and floods. Science cannot disprove Creation or Noahs flood.
But after Exodus the bible is considered quite accurate historically plausible, based on archeological evidence.
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Krazysh0t
After the Last Ice Age ended (and during the ending process), sea-level rose by more than 120 meters in 12000 years. This lead to massive floods all over the world, and the Black and Caspian Seas were turned from valleys into seas in mere days. When Bosporos broke around the time the Flood is supposed to have happened this could easily have been recorded as a cataclysmic event that reshaped Mesopotamia and the ME in general. And there is plenty of proof Mesopotamia saw several massive floods that has basically buried the whole area in stacks of silt. Remember that Global wasn't really in Ut-Noah-Pishtim's dictionary. The World as such was the known world to these people and it wasn't very impressive.
As for Adam and Eve being the only humans, bollocks. Cain went east of Eden and met people there in the Indus Valley, where he built the world's first city, Hanokh. Now who would populate Hanokh if he was alone (he had killed his brother and left his parents), and who would he marry? Adam was the proto-Caucasian man. The first modern European. A hybrid between an African and a Neanderthal. Genetics shows us the history record. Bible is quite accurate.
40 years in Semitic languages means "a long time". Israel lived as nomads for a long time. Beduins don't seem to have problems herding enough animals and such to feed millions even today, living mostly in the desert. And they're quite good at leaving no trace.
So it's all down to semantics and how you choose to interpret the stories really. But you are right. No global flood. No Adam and Eve populating the world. No lit. 40 years in the desert. BTW. You can cross the Sinai desert in a couple of weeks.
originally posted by: Krazysh0t
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Krazysh0t
After the Last Ice Age ended (and during the ending process), sea-level rose by more than 120 meters in 12000 years. This lead to massive floods all over the world, and the Black and Caspian Seas were turned from valleys into seas in mere days. When Bosporos broke around the time the Flood is supposed to have happened this could easily have been recorded as a cataclysmic event that reshaped Mesopotamia and the ME in general. And there is plenty of proof Mesopotamia saw several massive floods that has basically buried the whole area in stacks of silt. Remember that Global wasn't really in Ut-Noah-Pishtim's dictionary. The World as such was the known world to these people and it wasn't very impressive.
Oh, I'm all of the opinion that the "global" flood was really just a larger than normal local flood. Albeit much larger. And Noah probably just saved his family and his own personal livestock (maybe he even took two of each of his livestock so that he could repopulate his livelihood after the flood ended).
As for Adam and Eve being the only humans, bollocks. Cain went east of Eden and met people there in the Indus Valley, where he built the world's first city, Hanokh. Now who would populate Hanokh if he was alone (he had killed his brother and left his parents), and who would he marry? Adam was the proto-Caucasian man. The first modern European. A hybrid between an African and a Neanderthal. Genetics shows us the history record. Bible is quite accurate.
You do realize that y-chromosomal adam is just the oldest person that we can trace the y chromosome back to correct? That doesn't mean that other people didn't live at the same time as him or that there weren't any other proto-Caucasian man (though that term makes little sense since adam wasn't from the Caucus mountains anyways).
40 years in Semitic languages means "a long time". Israel lived as nomads for a long time. Beduins don't seem to have problems herding enough animals and such to feed millions even today, living mostly in the desert. And they're quite good at leaving no trace.
Regardless, the bible claims that there are thousands if not millions of people traveling. If we disregard that there is zero evidence that a large group of Hebrew slaves left Egypt to travel the desert (heck there is mounting evidence to suggest that the Hebrews were never slaves in Egypt to begin with), a pack of millions of people would be IMPOSSIBLE to organize and lead anywhere, let alone through a harsh and unforgiving environment like a desert.
Though there is a possibility that Moses very well have migrated from Egypt with his family and friends (or his tribe of less than 100 people) to be nomads in the desert for a time before settling in Canaan and the whole tale was just embellished and exaggerated over the years. Hebrew lore at the time WAS passed down orally so that isn't such a far fetched idea.
So it's all down to semantics and how you choose to interpret the stories really. But you are right. No global flood. No Adam and Eve populating the world. No lit. 40 years in the desert. BTW. You can cross the Sinai desert in a couple of weeks.
I'm sure there are some grains of truth in the stories of the bible, but it is so hard to pick out fact from fiction (since the fiction is pretty much everywhere) that it is best to just say that the bible is false.
originally posted by: Nechash
If any engineering species intervened in this planet to guide our evolution, that probably began at least as far back as 2.5 million years ago.