Bill Maher Destroyed Again And Again By Reza Aslan

In the Hadith Muhammad allows mutilation, and teaches the slaver Um Habibah how to do it properly, but it's not an order for all women by Islamic law. While you can make the argument that he never ordered it part of Islamic law, that doesn't change the fact that he never condemned slavery or mutilation as immoral either. IMO a morally correct prophet would have done so.

He is also correct to say that some Muslim majority countries are secular and don't follow Islam as their law. Thank god, cause if they did those countries would would all look much different. Ho-ray for secular governments!

If they where theocracies all those female leaders would have been reminded of the time Muhammad said ''A nation which placed its affairs in the hands of a woman shall never prosper!'' thankfully they chose not to listen.

That still leaves the fact that Islam does have plenty of horrible laws that are oppressive to women, it does have horrible laws for infidels, gays and many others. When people act on those horrible morals, it is very much Islamic.

I'll give aslan +1 on this point.No need to falsely attribute genital mutilation to Islam though, there are plenty of real problems with in the religion.

Clearly, FGM is a cultural issue within certain regions of the world, mostly North Africa. When you look at other countries with high Muslim population outside of North Africa, you don't see FGM. Look at Indonesia, Bangladesh, Turkey, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Malaysia.

a reply to: unphased

FGM in Ethiopia and Eritrea is not found among the Christian populations or the Jewish or Qemant populations. FGM is found among Muslims in Eritrea and Ethiopia.

As I've stated before, if one can condemn the religious doctrine itself, its teachings, then they can start making more generalized statements about the followers of that religion. That is why I have always stated that extremism would definitely be a Muslim problem, or the product of Islam, if that is what Islam teaches or allows. If it does not allow such things, and all of the extremists have no religious basis for their actions, then it is not the fault of Islam. Pretty straightforward in my opinion. In the case FGM, if Islam does not teach it then it is more of a cultural issue than a religious or Muslim issue. One problem regarding throwing out statistics and whether a country is predominantly Christian or Muslim is that it does not take into account what religion those participating in the mutilation follow. That is the only statistic that would matter in this debate. Just as a hypothetical example, if a nation was predominantly one religion, yet the minority religion accounts for all the FGM cases, then it would be absurd to claim it was a problem of the first religion. But again, if the religion itself does not teach this mutilation, it is not a religious issue.

a reply to: unphased

That's like saying child molestation is a Catholic priest problem...

Islam is (impossible to argue too) a very young religion, and it has many backwards ideals. The Catholic Church is much older and is only now coming to terms with things like equality, so it's not really the fault of the Muslims beyond adhering to archaic fairy tales. All religions give people the easy way out, or the stupid man's ability to be "smart".

In any case, Islam is completely backwards in its treatment towards gays and women in general and you're not going to change that overnight. Looking beyond the nice vail a few talking heads on TV, there is major problems...

Many cultures think it is the man's God-given right to hit a woman. According to Change from within: Muslim perspectives about Domestic Violence, even the term Domestic Violence is looked upon as suspect by many Muslims because it is reminiscent of “western feminists ideals and doesn't occur in traditional Islamic texts”. Another reason that many do not publicly bring this issue up is because it re-enforces the stereotype that Islam is a violent religion. Others do not want to pry into 'private lives' except to tsk tsk over the plight of another.

muslimmatters.org...

Breaking the silence on domestic violence in Indonesia
Victims are speaking out in greater numbers, new report suggests

Mariyati is one of thousands of women who suffer domestic violence in Indonesia, according to a recent report by the National Commission of Violence against Women (Komnas Perempuan.)

Authorities recorded 11,719 cases of domestic violence in 2013, according to the report issued earlier this month – up from 8,315 in 2012.

Komnas Perempuan, which issues the annual report on violence against women to coincide with International Women’s Day on March 8, says the actual number of cases is likely to be much higher.

“This increase [from 2012] indicates that women are more confident in speaking out,” said Justina Rostiawati, a commissioner with Komnas Perempuan.

“But it doesn’t really mean that the previous year’s cases were actually fewer because there might have been many victims who were unable to speak out.”

There are a number of psychological or economic reasons why some women refuse to report their husbands to the police, says Uli Arta Pangaribuan, a lawyer from the Legal Aid Foundation of the Indonesian Women’s Association for Justice.

www.ucanews.com...

Based on information from Muslim leaders, social workers, and activists in North America, the North American Council for Muslim Women says that approximately 10 percent of Muslim women are abused emotionally, physically, and sexually by their Muslim husbands. (There are no hard numbers, because community leaders haven't taken the well-known problem seriously enough to research.)

www.zawaj.com...





Oh, and don't even get started on Islamic abuse of women who are infidels. Especially those who have emigrated into foreign countries. Sweden and UK have endemic problems tied to the muslim community, who think its fine to rape anything not muslim. The numbers are waaay to high for it to be simply because of personality traits alone, its a systemic belief among the followers of the said religion.

cont.

The third point in the discussion is "Islamic Extremism." Do we have a good agreement on what that phrase means? No, I didn't think so. That handicaps the issue from the start, and it drifts into a discussion on women. There are two ways of thinking about it as far as I can see, but I'd appreciate additions.

First, consider what an extreme Presbyterian or Baptist, or Episcopalian might be. I would picture him as someone dedicated to living up to his religion in every aspect, following everything with an unusual strictness. If that is what is meant when Aslan describes Saudi Arabia as the most extreme Muslim nation, he would be saying that Saudi Arabia is the most serious and dedicated nation of the Muslim religion in all of it's aspects. What do you want to bet that Aslan won't accept that?

Having rejected that one (because it means that all other Muslim nations are "goofing off" on one or more tenents of the religion, thus not very good Muslims), my second idea of Islamic extremism would be someone who is willing to perform extreme actions, believing them to be allowed or praised by the Muslim religion. I suppose that people who approved of those extreme actions would be consider "Islamic extremists," too.

Aslan, says that bigotry consists of drawing a conclusion about a group from a minority of it's members. We'll forget that polls, and sampling, do just that. Are there many Muslim extremists under this definition? Is it a problem? Well, heres a five year old poll:

61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)

www.worldpublicopinion.org...

84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam

pewglobal.org...

82% of Egyptian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
70% of Jordanian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
42% of Indonesian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
82% of Pakistanis favor stoning adulterers
56% of Nigerian Muslims favor stoning adulterers

pewglobal.org...

81% of South Asian Muslims and 57% of Egyptians support amputating limbs for theft.

www.pewforum.org...

Economist (Pew 2013): 74% who favor Islamic law in Egypt say it should apply to non-Muslims as well.

Economist.

Oh, there are many more, but do you still think that extremists are a tiny minority, and the people or government of Saudi Arabia is the big problem?

All right, since you asked:

Middle East Quarterly: 91 percent of honor killings are committed by Muslims worldwide.

www.canadafreepress.com...

58% of Muslim-Americans believe criticism of Islam or Muhammad is not protected free speech under the First Amendment.
45% believe mockers of Islam should face criminal charges (38% said they should not).
12% of Muslim-Americans believe blaspheming Islam should be punishable by death.
43% of Muslim-Americans believe people of other faiths have no right to evangelize Muslims.
32% of Muslims in America believe that Sharia should be the supreme law of the land.

www.andrewbostom.org...

Unless somebody can come up with another definition for "Islamic Extremist," I'd say Maher is right again.

a reply to: Sremmos80

Dear Sremmos80,

Many thanks to you for listening, checking, and objecting when necessary.

You'll find the words I quoted between 2:05 and 2:16 of the video.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: Swills

This man actually opened my eyes. Thank you OP for posting this I am taking it too heart. I use blanket statements in the same ways and I am wrong..........No longer will I label.


Funny how a simple thing like a thread on ATS can open your eyes so wide it actually change the way you see things. Really thank again OP.

I agree with other posters that this guy is making me take another look at Islam.

However I bet that he will make a Appearance in the future with Bill, Bill isn't a coward and would welcome a debate with him on the topics especially a religious based topic.

I seriously doubt we will see him on Fox news again.

a reply to: LDragonFire

Oh man, him vs Bill!? I would pay to watch that.
Would love a for a bill v reza debate like he did against stewart

a reply to: charles1952

Ok so he does say those words exactly, foot in mouth for me there, but you do need to finish the sentence.
The way you have it quoted, it does sound like he is agreeing with bill, but what he actually says completely refutes what bill says.
He is saying it happens in those countries, that are majority muslism, but that they are still the extreme of it compared to the rest of the countries with higher populations that it doesn't happen in

I see some of you posters here are not reading the percentages and FACTS.
People are posting numbers but they are going largely ignored...

I side more with Bill Maher, I've watched him a lot, and he's not religious.
Screw anyone with a Religious agenda!!! seems pretty simple to me.

I have never read or heard about peaceful Muslims. It seems my murder is built into the Koran. All I see on the news is violence, killing, and lets not forget beheading by Muslims. I wish the American government would stay out of the middle east, but I know the oil cartels wont let that happen. The Christians and Buddhists in the middle east are not American, nor any western country, but you behead shoot and blow them up. Where do you keep the peaceful Muslims?

Bill Maher is an ignoramus…a lightweight. This guy likely never will be invited back on Maher’s show because he would embarrass the ignorant bigot Maher.

a reply to: charles1952

You have little knowledge of religion or Islam.

Most devout religious people in any religion would be classified as extreme.

The Hindu visiting the white house now is fasting to some Hindu god while Obama drinks wine and eats pheasant.


The history of Christianity, before the secular revolution in Europe, is littered with extreme violence.

Even today you still have pockets of extreme Christians in America who want to bring back God in the government.

Look at the devout Jews in Israel. They are almost the exact same as devout Muslims in terms of their Shariah (RELIGIOUS LAW)

Where the most Muslims are in Indonesia, Malaysia and Turkey (where westerners love to go on honeymoons) has little if any Muslim violence.

For a group who hasn't had a secular revolution Islam isn't really that bad though does have problems in mainly Arab countries or where colonialism was most pronounced.

The problem is that Maher is a person who hates all religion.

It will not be long before agnostic and atheists and other spiritual people completely outnumber religious people
It just takes time to shed the chains of religious dogma, and these times will be viewed
with disgust at the incessant religious killings and wars, kind of how we look back to before there was
electricity, or the internet. People will wake up.

a reply to: charles1952

I'm sorry to sound abrupt, but, so what? It's what people who claim to be Muslims are doing and they're still considered Muslims.

Nowhere in the Quran does it mention FGM...

Indeed it says...

Indeed, We have created the human being upon the best of forms. Quran 4-8

&...

We have indeed created man in the 'best of moulds'. Quran 95:4

Therefore it is not an Islamic problem, but a societal one!!!

Double Post!!!

a reply to: charles1952

Saudi Arabia is the most serious and dedicated nation of the Muslim religion in all of it's aspects.

No it isn't...
Saudi Arabia is a Wahhabist state...
Which follows the teachings of Al Wahhab, not the Prophet Muhammad...
They're as far from Islam as can be!

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: LDragonFire

Oh man, him vs Bill!? I would pay to watch that.
Would love a for a bill v reza debate like he did against stewart

I think Aslan vs Sam Harris was probably better than one against Bill Maher would be.