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Yahweh 2 - Yahweh Contradicts Elohim (Father) in Genesis 5-7 and is Denied by Elohim

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posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 08:26 PM
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For the introduction to this thread series, see the first thread: Yahweh 1

I will try to do two a day if possible on separate topics concerning Yahweh in rebellion against God the Father. This thread speaks to the passage in Genesis 5-7 regarding how many animals to put on the Ark. If you see this correctly, your eyes will be opened.

Example 1) Chapter 5 starts off reminding us that ELOHIM created humanity, not Adam and Eve. Humanity were created BOTH male and female. Eve was formed from Adam by Yahweh. Remember that Elohim is God the Father.

5 This is the written account of Adam and his descendants.

When Elohim created humans,
he made them in the likeness of Elohim.
2 He created them male and female.
He blessed them and called them humans
when he created them.

Example 2) In Chapter 6, we have the fall of the Sons of Elohim outlined. Yahweh then says he will destroy mankind after 6000 years, or 120 Jubilee years. 120X50=6000. This is learned from the book of Jubilees.

Genesis 6 The number of people increased all over the earth, and daughters were born to them. 2 The sons of Elohim saw that the daughters of other humans were beautiful. So they married any woman they chose.

3 Then Yahweh said, “My Spirit will not struggle with humans forever, because they are flesh and blood. They will live 120 years.”

Example 3) God makes a plan to save humanity with a flood. 1 Peter 3 then tells you this is symbolism for baptism, or immersion into the waters of life for 6 days. Being resurrected and being born again is this process. Here, Elohim instructs Noah, only to be contradicted by Yahweh.

Genesis 6
18 “But I will make my promise[c] to you. You, your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives will go into the ship. 19 Bring two of every living creature into the ship in order to keep them alive with you. They must be male and female. 20 Two of every type of bird, every type of domestic animal, and every type of creature that crawls on the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 Take every kind of food that can be eaten and store it. It will be food for you and the animals.”

22 Noah did this. He did everything that Elohim had commanded him.

---Remember, verse 22 states that Elohim (Father) said this to Noah. What did Yahweh then come to say right after?

Genesis 7
7 Yahweh said to Noah, “Go into the ship with your whole family because I have seen that you alone are righteous among the people of today. 2 Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal (a male and a female of each) and one pair of every kind of unclean[a] animal (a male and a female). 3 Also, take seven pairs of every kind of bird (a male and a female of each) to preserve animal life all over the earth after the flood. 4 In seven days I will send rain to the earth for 40 days and 40 nights. I will wipe off the face of the earth every living creature that I have made.”

5 So Noah did everything that Yahweh commanded him.

---What actually happened from this contradiction of Yahweh?

13 On that same day Noah and his sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth, as well as Noah’s wife and his three daughters-in-law went into the ship. 14 They had with them every type of wild animal, every type of domestic animal, every type of creature that crawls on the earth, and every type of bird (every creature with wings). 15 A pair of every living, breathing animal came to Noah to go into the ship.

---Don't miss the point. Two by two, just as Elohim had asked. All the animals were there that Yahweh requested, but only pairs entered the ark as Elohim had asked. Yahweh's request did not happen.

16 A male and a female of every animal went in as Elohim had commanded Noah. Then Yahweh closed the door behind them.

As Elohim had commanded. Not as Yahweh had commanded. Seven sets was denied.

Here, the Rational WIKI has a hay day, but misses the point. Yahweh is in rebellion. He is contradicting Elohim at nearly every turn.

Rational Wiki Number of each 'kind'

Remember, as you compare the Atheist view in the link above to the correct view, you see that the entire Bible is the struggle of the Father to lead the Son. Don't forget, we are all the body of the Son of God. As Jesus said, if you judge others (especially from unbelief), you judge yourselves.

Forgive your enemies. Yahweh became the Redeemer of mankind by being humbled and obedient to the Father (Elohim) in the end. This is the story of us all.


edit on 30-9-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 09:02 AM
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Since your are trying to explain everything using just the bible ( or at least trying to impose your opinion ).
Where in the bible says that YHVH is in rebellion with Elohim?



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 11:32 AM
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What about Genisis 8:20

"Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it."

So are we assuming that Noah's first action after the flood was to render several species extinct?

Also if the directives were in opposition to one another Noah, by only bringing a pair of each animal, would have clearly chosen a side (Elohim's). Why would he then turn around and make a sacrifice to Yahweh.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 01:31 PM
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Interesting but confusing as I tend to think in absolutes. So Elohim is the most high and Yahweh is the son when fully enlightened. Yahweh wears the cloths of Elohim but is not the maker of the cloths (in Gods image). I get the feeling that the true nature of the heavens can only be known by persons that achieve true enlightenment.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 01:43 PM
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a reply to: glend

He is trying to explain something from the bible. The thing is that the bible don't say anything about what He is trying to explain.
If you people want some explaining about that, you need to read the Gnostics texts. A warning: is not an easy reading. Not easily to understand and/or digest.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 02:25 PM
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a reply to: Abednego

Thanks Abednego, I might just have to buy a Kabbalah For Dummies book before tackling gnostics.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 02:48 PM
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originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Abednego

Thanks Abednego, I might just have to buy a Kabbalah For Dummies book before tackling gnostics.


Yeah. People think that just reading a book is enough to understand whatever topic. And in this case is even worse. In order to really understand what is happening in the bible;
1. you need to understand the people that the bible is talking to (it wasn't us, we adopt it later).
2. Culture differences.
3. Languages differences. Ancient Hebrew is not that easy to translate (you just don't go and use a regular dictionary). Letters has meaning, and they are represented by symbols that means something. Not just phonetically like us.
4. Never use one source for your investigation, use as many as you can. That way you will get an close idea of what they really meant.

Once you achieve all that. Your world will change forever and it will never be the same.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 02:55 PM
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originally posted by: Josephus
What about Genisis 8:20

"Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it."

So are we assuming that Noah's first action after the flood was to render several species extinct?

Also if the directives were in opposition to one another Noah, by only bringing a pair of each animal, would have clearly chosen a side (Elohim's). Why would he then turn around and make a sacrifice to Yahweh.



Genesis 7:2 "Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth."

Seven pairs of clean animals and birds. So sacrificing one or two does not cause extinction.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 03:27 PM
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a reply to: jjkenobi

It say's nowhere that there was no reproduction in the ark. So there could have been some offspring.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 11:08 PM
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a reply to: jjkenobi

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. Alephbet is the one saying that the clean animals were not taken in greater numbers because Noah supposedly refused to follow a supposedly contradictory set of instructions, from a supposedly rebellious Yahweh.

1. That's a lot of supposition.

2. Sorry if i didn't make my point clear. Sarcasm doesn't translate to text well, I guess.



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 01:05 AM
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a reply to: AlephBet

According the the earlier Sumerian and Babylonian accounts,.... Enlil sought to annihilate mankind through a flood (deluge). Ea/Enki, who is the satan (adversary) of Enlil, sought to thwart the planned extinction of man by warning Atrahasis, Ziusudra, Utnapishtim about the flood, and advising to create a ship to survive.


As Yahweh is paralleled to Marduk;
After his official succession over his father, Marduk takes on the attributes and powers of his father Ea/Enki. Therefore, Ea/Enki's events become Marduk's events.

It was Enlil who flooded the Fertile Crescent, and it was Ea/Enki who played adversary (satan) to the plan.

Paralleled to the Old Testament, we see "Elohim" (Enlil) bring the flood, and we see Yahweh (Marduk) play adversary to the plan.



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 04:51 PM
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a reply to: Josephus

I don't know the answer to that. I have wondered the same, but I also assume there is an element to this we do not get without direct experience. We are looking at this in the dark for the most part.



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 04:56 PM
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a reply to: Abednego

It's doesn't say this outright. You must read the story, just like any book, to see the characters interact. The key to this is to identify the characters by name, which is what the names of God Bible allows. I am just shifting into this paradigm myself, but the most obvious things emerges. Family conflict with one voice working independently. It boils down to a war of will. Elohim's will can be seen throughout the Bible to conflict with the decisions of Yahweh. Father's will is to give and receive with free exercise of the same will. Yahweh has the will to take. There is a clear difference. Spotting this may be easier for me since I know many of the presuppositions necessary for this level of open eyes and ears. I have noticed that I seem to be quite in the minority in this ability.



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 04:58 PM
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originally posted by: glend
Interesting but confusing as I tend to think in absolutes. So Elohim is the most high and Yahweh is the son when fully enlightened. Yahweh wears the cloths of Elohim but is not the maker of the cloths (in Gods image). I get the feeling that the true nature of the heavens can only be known by persons that achieve true enlightenment.


It is bound to be perplexing. I take it one glimmer at a time as I try to see clearly. It's a process to expand the map of the territory. Each piece allows others to then be seen.

You seem to have a good view of this with the robes and faces we wear. That could not be more accurate. Abram became Abraham when he beheld God with faith. Hey means to behold. Even our names take on new letters. What does it mean that a person is lettered in society?
edit on 2-10-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 05:03 PM
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originally posted by: jjkenobi

originally posted by: Josephus
What about Genisis 8:20

"Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it."

So are we assuming that Noah's first action after the flood was to render several species extinct?

Also if the directives were in opposition to one another Noah, by only bringing a pair of each animal, would have clearly chosen a side (Elohim's). Why would he then turn around and make a sacrifice to Yahweh.



Genesis 7:2 "Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth."

Seven pairs of clean animals and birds. So sacrificing one or two does not cause extinction.


There was a subtle point you have missed from the OP. Yahweh said to take seven, which is what Noah did before entering the Ark. What happened? Pairs entered the Ark, just as Elohim requested. Yahweh was denied his command by Elohim. Elohim's will was done, which is what Jesus then said in the model prayer. Thy will.

There are such subtle little nuances here that they are missed if you are not looking intently. Go back and read very closely. This was the main point of the thread topic. Yahweh was denied his command to Noah.



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 05:05 PM
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originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: jjkenobi

It say's nowhere that there was no reproduction in the ark. So there could have been some offspring.


Birds can fly. There may have been may hanging on the Ark. As you say, there are many possibilities.
edit on 2-10-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: Josephus
a reply to: jjkenobi

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. Alephbet is the one saying that the clean animals were not taken in greater numbers because Noah supposedly refused to follow a supposedly contradictory set of instructions, from a supposedly rebellious Yahweh.

1. That's a lot of supposition.

2. Sorry if i didn't make my point clear. Sarcasm doesn't translate to text well, I guess.


Noah did follow Yahweh's request. It was the animals themselves that entered in pairs as Elohim requested. Read it closely.



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 05:14 PM
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a reply to: AlephBet

Have you heard about the Documentary Hypothesis?

==> www.abovetopsecret.com...

The people who wrote the Torah were a diverse group of cultists, priests, scribes and redactors. This is why God is named Elohim in Gen 1 but Yahveh in Gen 2, and why the mountain of Moses received the ten law is called Mt Sinai in one verse and Mt Horeb in another and yet a third place, the Mountain of God. These authors represented different Jewish schools over a span of several hundred years, reflected in different stages of Hebrew, use of Aramaic and Chaldee and so on. Filled quite a few gaps in my own understanding of the Torah.



posted on Dec, 7 2014 @ 05:23 PM
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a reply to: AlephBet

The animals that was lead into the ark, as a pair, was those who would later repopulate the earth.

The animals that was taken by seven pairs was for Burn-Offerings and food.

If you can not figure that one out, then you should really stop creating threads...



posted on Dec, 7 2014 @ 05:29 PM
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originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: jjkenobi

It say's nowhere that there was no reproduction in the ark. So there could have been some offspring.


The thing is that people believe he, Noah, took fully grown animals. Taking small young animals would be much better, less room required and less weight.



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