You Need To See This!! Routine Traffic Stop Escalates Beyond Belief!!

a reply to: Mikeultra

She could have been arrested at the 1st stop for driving with an expired license! [

No. An expired license isn't a big deal.

After she took off she was definitely going to be arrested.

After she received her license and insurance info back, and was given her citation, she had no reason to believe that she wasn't free to go, or that she was being detained. Heck, I've seem people tear up their tickets, right in front of cops. They still have to pay it. They're not guilty of not paying their ticket until they don't pay it, or otherwise take care of it.

a reply to: windword
Whenever I got a ticket, the cop would come back to me after writing it up and say sign it, if you want to plead guilty check the box and mail the ticket in with the fine by a certain date. If I want to fight it call the court and a date will be assigned. Quite simple. That's all the cop was asking for.

a reply to: windword
I don't think you understand how things work. You're just playing the devil's advocate here. She should have been beaten down for being so stubborn and dumb. I do hope she received a lengthy prison sentence.

Ya this really was the ladies fault.
While I agree with her at the very begging, every thing after here refusing to turn the car off ( That is the first thing I do when I get pulled over) and then talking off, horrible idea.

That first cop did very well and I will say he is one of those 'good apples' we always hear about in this type of thread.
One thing I noticed he did both times that kid got all tough on him was reached for his taser

a reply to: Mikeultra

No it was not, she had to make the decision to pay it, or fight it within 30 days.
You can even hear her ask if she can change her mind and the answer was no.

It doesn't surprise me one bit that you think she needed to be beaten down tho

a reply to: paxnatus

HOLY CRAP, people are insanely dumb.

Honestly, the only thing the cops did wrong was for the arriving officer to shoot at a fleeing vehicle. His fault is marginal. It really is, marginal. Most cops that die on the job die in traffic stops and if you dont know enough to NOT FLEE FROM A TRAFFIC STOP then there is nothing but bad things in your future. I dont blame getting wet on the rain, but rather on my sorry ass for forgetting an umbrella.

The people and especially the mother, everything wrong. SHE did EVERYTHING WRONG. She endangered her kids, herself, and the officers. Her son could have had a pocket knife she didnt know about and could have RUINED HIS LIFE acting out of natural defence for his mother. She didnt know how to diffuse the situation. At most she should have just went to see a judge right away. She knew her problems would have gotten worse..thats why she didnt.

OMFG this was a total fail on the part of the people involved. The cop, the one that pulled her over initially, good person in a bad persons path.

I am a little disgusted with this woman.

a reply to: WanDash

Okay! So there it is! The cops are trying to "bullet proof" their citation process and are willing to strong arm people into pleading guilty, on the spot, to save time and money, through sneaky policy changes!

As will be discussed in greater detail in Section 4.4.2, Acceptance of Guilty Plea, a judge
may not accept a guilty plea unless it is demonstrated in open court that the plea is being
made knowingly and voluntarily. To ascertain this, the judge must ensure that the
defendant understands the rights being given up by pleading guilty. Additionally, a judge
must elicit a factual basis for the plea; in other words, the judge must be persuaded that
the defendant is able to explain what the basis of the charge is. In a nutshell, a plea is
knowing and voluntary if the judge is satisfied that the defendant knowingly waives the
right against self- incrimination, the right to a trial, the right to confront accusers and
question witnesses and the right to counsel (although this will not be applicable in a
penalty assessment case since there is no jail time involved), and that there has been no
coercion to plead guilty.

Certainly, threatening to arrest people who wish plea the 5th is coercion.

Because it is certain that the law enforcement officer would not
have explained all of this to the traffic offender at the time of the stop, it is certainly
arguable that the plea on the penalty assessment was not determined to be knowing and
voluntary, and if the offender alleges confusion of some kind, the offender should be
allowed to change his/her plea and proceed to trial. jec.unm.edu...

Certainly, the cop in this video did NOT inform this women of her rights. Clearly, she didn't understand her options, and they weren't being adequately represented to her.

Also, he never placed her under arrest, nor was she being detained for a criminal offense, according to your link. So shooting at her and her children was far more illegal then her refusing to sign the misdemeanor citation. IMO

a reply to: windword

He doesnt need to place her under arrest. MAYBE he would have OR NOT. He wanted the person who is mentally unstable enough to run a traffic stop with her kids in the car to be secured while other officers arrived before he placed her under arrest.

There is ZERO argument that can be made without complete fabrication of the law.

a reply to: tadaman

There is ZERO argument that can be made without complete fabrication of the law.

Apparently not!

Appeals court judge suggests dismissing charges against Oriana Farrell
www.taosnews.com...

Oriana Ferrell, Mom Whose Van Full Of Kids Was Shot By Police, Breaks Silence
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Judge Paternoster, Oriana Farrell, a Smoking Gun? and a Gap in the Tape
www.taosfriction.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Shooting at the tires of a moving vehicle is just plain dumb, this isn't hollywood.
Shooting the tire is just asking for the van to flip over.

originally posted by: windword
I can't find anything to back up that the officer was acting legally when he initially told the woman that she had to sign, admitting guilt or sign saying that you are disputing the ticket. When he told the woman that he was already cutting her a break, was that to urge to admit to speeding when she wasn't?

When she told the officer that she was afraid to get out her car because they were in the middle of nowhere, after he already threatened to arrest her, if he was acting illegally in the first place, then she had a right to seek out a more populated location, where there would be witnesses.

www.dmv.org...-Your-Options

I can't find anything in this website that says you have to admit guilt, or set a court date to fight your ticket, during a traffic stop.

Are you kidding? The signature on the ticket just means that you were made aware of what law you were alledgedly stopped for!!! She was not just an ASS HAT but an ASS HAT GONE WILD WITHOUT A BRAIN!!! Any time you are stopped by a cop and issued a ticket you sign for it! This has nothing to do with admitting you are guilty, otherwise there would be no option to dispute in court! She was being obtuse on purpose because she was probably stoned out of her tiny little mind!

Hope that clarifies the issue for you!

Pax

a reply to: paxnatus

Hope that clarifies the issue for you!

Nope. Obviously you haven't watched the video or English isn't your first language.

a reply to: windword

yeah but there is a long line of TERRIBLE judges who make rulings for popularity and play the politik game. It really says nothing after the fact. Her actions were just wrong. Insane really. Careless, irresponsible, illegal, immoral, dumb...and so on.

I honestly cant believe this is even an issue. SHE RAN A TRAFFIC STOP with her kids in the car...FROM A NICE COP GIVING HER A BREAK!

Um...excuses?

EDIT TO ADD:
When you see something flying at your face you dont swat or recoil instinctively? How is a car fleeing from a cop in distress not something you would expect a cop to react to with 2 seconds of context? What the hell would you expect the cop to do? Maybe you would like robots. Only robots can do what you think is required in that situation.

a reply to: windword
Not one word of thanks/appreciation... ?
Just jab everyone that responds to your arguments/requests...then, avoid the facts, when presented, by calling "foul".
? ? ?

Most of us, under similar circumstances would make a decision, when required by the citing officer...and would not have sped off...
...Would not have refused to accompany the officer to the back of the vehicle...
...Would have signed the document, and elected to either take our chances with a judge, or accept the $126 fine.

At no time in the entire encounter was she either respectful of the law or the officer...OR COGNIZANT OF THE CHILDREN endangered by her moronic behavior.
It was SHE that incited the escalation.
I may not blame the son (presuming he was her son)...
As a son/child, there is an Inherent Obligation to defend your mother &/or siblings...even if they are in the wrong.
She was at fault for pressing the situation to his potential demise.

Do I consider the law that requires the decision she was faced with...'righteous' and 'above reproach"?
Absolutely Not!
But - I would not put my family in the kind of peril evident in this video...unless it was Life Or Death for us all - and I was fleeing for the sake of...US ALL.

a reply to: Sremmos80
Shooting-out a front tire is asking for the van to flip...
Shooting-out a back tire, is not...unless the stupidity of the driver is beyond measure.

a reply to: WanDash

What you didnt add in was the slot to sign where it says i am not paying a fine and will show up in court on this specific date at this specific time..

she said she did not know if she would be able to appear in court in 30 days! Of course she did! I hope to hell she new she was from Tennessee!! And the last time I looked those 2 states are pretty far apart!! She should have just signed the damn ticket anyway! Her ridiculous blathering and dangerous driving is what put those kids lives in danger!

For the love of God! Have you ever seen a bigger fool!!

I would have pulled my weapon and demanded she get out of the car at the second stop!! she then wanted to sign the ticket!! She gave me headache listening and watching her go on and on!!

Pax

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: paxnatus

Hope that clarifies the issue for you!

Nope. Obviously you haven't watched the video or English isn't your first language.

Well My God you are starting to sound as obtuse as the intelligent lady in the video!! Sorry I probably speak English better than you and yes I watched the video!! What is so hard to understand here???? Oh i get it you just hate all cops and authority!! When one is issued a ticket there are to paragraphs to choose from that the offender must sign!

One says I plead guilty and agree to pay the fine! The other says I do not agree with this charge and by signing this I will agree to show up in court on __this date at this time or call the court at this number and agree to show up on the date assigned!!!!!!

They probably have a different law for out of state residents saying you must pay then or agree to see the judge then!! I do not believe you are an ignorant person of common sense traffic law so why are you posting as if you are? And ignorant does not mean stupid it means uninformed!!

Pax

a reply to: WanDash

Never had a problem controlling the front end of a vehicle in a spin out, seems it is all ways the tail end that wants to get screwy.

You have FAR more control over the front of your vehicle, via the steering wheel, what do you use to control the the back end?

In both cases it is really up to the driver's ability, but I would rather have a blow out on the two tires I can actually steer rather then the 2 that I have no control over

a reply to: Sremmos80

Dude,

The back end spins out when there is a flat and you are at high speeds. The front end can make you flip with a flat in the same conditions. There is no controlling.

It also depends on if its a rear wheel, all wheel or front wheel drive. ALWAYS getting a flat in the front is far worse than in the rear. If you keep going like a mad man after a rear flat you could spin and flip once the back end spins more to the front.

Its like stopping short , like on a dime, while running or sliding a little so you dont fall over. Friction WILL stop you 1 of 2 ways at that point.

a reply to: Sremmos80
My understanding is different.
This was/is a front-wheel-drive vehicle.
Meaning - it is not powered at the rear, but at the front end.
A blow-out on the rear will cause instability, but will not cause a flip or total loss of control...unless one continues to push the vehicle into a more treacherous scenario.
A blow-out on the front, however, can result in a sudden loss of control (pulling with extreme prejudice).
I watched two of my children (riding in the same vehicle - trailing me on the interstate) literally SHOOT from one lane across another and into a ditch, as a result of the front passenger-side tire blowing out.
Had it been a rear tire, the loss of control would have been manageable...enough to pull to the side of the road.
In this case, however, they had no time to react - and - we were ALL unbelievably fortunate!