Acts of man or a higher power at work

I have read, over the years, many strange acts reportedly being performed by devout Christians. Now, it must be stated that I�m sure there are reports of this kind in other religions and this post is not trying to claim one �right� religion. It�s interesting to hear about how some of these religious figures were able to perform acts of healing, prophecy, and even levitation. One of the most interesting cases, that I have read, is that of St. Joseph of Copertino who reportedly through severe penance, throughout his life, was able to perform acts of levitation. It has been stated that he levitated almost daily at mass and even in front of Pope Urbain VII. These acts of levitation were mentioned during his beatification which was significant because at the time the church mainly considered levitation as a sign of evil. He was brought before the inquisition, and ordered from one parish to another many times over his life because of the disruption he would cause.
Now, the one thing that almost all of these religious figures have in common is that they all practiced strict prayer, or meditation. My question is, if these acts really happened, could this have been more of an act by the person and not religious in nature at all? Is this an example of someone, through meditation, tapping into the mind and energy of the human body and manipulating their surroundings at will? I would like to think of it as a combination of a higher power and man working together. One thing is sure though, these types of occurrences have been reported in all of the worlds religions so could these be more an act of the person, instead of divine help?

I'm not sure there are enough facts redily avalible to come to such a conclusion. One might speculate, but any individual claiming one way or the other for certain is just being ignorant.

To my knowledge, The Bible doesn't discuss levitation or God giving people who serve him/her (God) the ability to perform tasks which serve no purpose other than causing a person to sin, through gaining pride in their abilities.

I cannot see why a logical God would specifically give a person the "power" to levitate. At the same time, I'm not sure that the God portrayed in The Bible was a logical God anyhow. Rath and vengence is highly illogical as is forgiving when the sinner has done nothing to prove he/she won't sin again in his/her afterlife.

It is anyones guess, whether or not God gave St. Joseph or anyone else that or any ability. It is anyones guess whether or not God exists at all.

In my OPINION however, it is unlikely an intelligent being, much less a supreme being, would give a person the ability to hover a few inches or feet off the ground without a need behind it. It is far more likely St. Joseph learned how to levitate on his own or was never levitating at all, whether it be through an illusion or the events never occuring in the first place - Fairy Tale.

Just my two cents.

Originally posted by SkyFox2
I'm not sure there are enough facts redily avalible to come to such a conclusion. One might speculate, but any individual claiming one way or the other for certain is just being ignorant.

To my knowledge, The Bible doesn't discuss levitation or God giving people who serve him/her (God) the ability to perform tasks which serve no purpose other than causing a person to sin, through gaining pride in their abilities.

I cannot see why a logical God would specifically give a person the "power" to levitate. At the same time, I'm not sure that the God portrayed in The Bible was a logical God anyhow. Rath and vengence is highly illogical as is forgiving when the sinner has done nothing to prove he/she won't sin again in his/her afterlife.

It is anyones guess, whether or not God gave St. Joseph or anyone else that or any ability. It is anyones guess whether or not God exists at all.

In my OPINION however, it is unlikely an intelligent being, much less a supreme being, would give a person the ability to hover a few inches or feet off the ground without a need behind it. It is far more likely St. Joseph learned how to levitate on his own or was never levitating at all, whether it be through an illusion or the events never occuring in the first place - Fairy Tale.

Just my two cents.

Good points Sky Fox! I really saw no purpose in God giving them the ability to levitate either, which is why I believe that it might have been done on their own. One point to note is that they claim that this "gift" was the direct effect of, essentially, thier joy in God. Also, during that time I'm sure it would have been easy to pull off an illusion such as this. I mean, if David Blaine can pull this off today, in our skeptical world, then why not someone of that time.

Originally posted by skychiefthese types of occurrences have been reported in all of the worlds religions so could these be more an act of the person, instead of divine help

For my own part, anything thats globally shared across cultures I tend to think of it as being something that just inherent to man as a species. Surely, with generalyl similar brains living under generally the same conditions one is going to get broadly similar reactions and 'types' within the cultures.

Gotta go with my esteemed colleague, Nygdan on this one.

There are many religions whose "saints"/"prophets"/"gurus" performed the same sorts of miracles as the early Christians and the Christian saints. There are practitioners of Oriental religions and philosophies today who claim to be able to levitate and so forth.

Yogis have been studied and it's been documented that they do have a LOT of control over their bodies (to the point of being able to stay warm in very cold places with very little clothing.)

Healing, clairvoyance, clairaudience, clairsentience, prophecy, charisma, telekinesis, levitation, discernment, astral projection, etc., are all historically referred to as Gifts of the Spirit. The reason for this is many centuries ago it was realized that psychic energies do not come from the body or the brain, but from people on the Other Side.

There are many who have meditated and prayed for decades and have no telekinetic ability whatsoever. Then there are those who have telekinetic and healing gifts given to them when they were still children, like Sai Baba and Issa.

The missing component to the unpredictable nature of telekinetic miracles is that groups of discarnates are the ones who are pulling the strings to make them happen. Each has its own agenda.

If that were not the case, then anyone with any talent in meditation and prayer would be offering classes in learning how to levitate.

The Israeli telekinetic, Uri Geller, stated that he was not the source of his ability to bend spoons and mend watches. He also cannot turn it on and off at will. No one can. Those who say they have complete control over a telekinetic or healing gift are fooling themselves � and I�ve seen many people who have had that ability.

If you read up on the miracles found in Christianity and compare them to those found in Hinduism, you find that they are about the same. The gods of Christianity are no more powerful than the gods of Hinduism. That in itself is highly significant.

The discarnate dimensions essentially consist of a large collection of special interest groups. Each discarnate collective has its own focus, culture, and agenda. The large groups are the ones that provide the energy and minor miracles for traditional religions. New large groups play an instrumental role in the formation of new faiths.

Originally posted by Byrd
Gotta go with my esteemed colleague, Nygdan on this one.

[homer simpson]MMMM steamed colleauge, galrgle glargle[/homer]

Heres an interesting article for the thread starter

www.dtl.org...
paranormal.about.com...

Originally posted by instar
Heres an interesting article for the thread starter

www.dtl.org...
paranormal.about.com...

Hi Instar,

Regarding the link to the article about David Blaine, the author and magician, Rod Robison, who is a fundamentalist Christian, is clueless in his appraisal. If Blaine's telekinetic feats (which were performed without camera manipulation, props, wires, and in broad daylight) were just tricks and are so easily accomplished by other magicians, then why don't we see others doing their own version of Blaine's Street Magic?

David Blaine has a genuine Gift of Telekinesis. The reason why he got his television show in the first place was because he freaked out a big time producer in his high rise office. Of course, Blaine will never admit to it. Why should he? He is a multimillionaire because of his gift.

BTW, I always thought of David Copperfield as a magician. He doesn't have a telekinetic gift like Uri Geller, David Blaine and Sai Baba. There are certain things that cannot be faked. Levitating off of a sidewalk in broad daylight in front of a group of strangers is one of them. I'd like to see Rod Robison (or any other stage illusionist) try to pull that one off. The truth is that they don't simply because they can't.

Regarding the link to the article about the medium, D.D. Home, his purported gifts are interesting but inconclusive. In addition to plenty of eyewitness testimony, you also need visual and audio documentation in order to constitute credible evidence.

Scientific tests that are conducted under controlled laboratory conditions, proving the gift, also helps. Like the ones that were done on Matthew Manning and Uri Geller in 1974.