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A Proof of Monotheistic Deception

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posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 03:12 PM
A god is a being whose entire reality is established and enacted by their own will alone. They are not an object of any laws other than those that they will into existence and they have no binding impositions placed upon them. Any other being, no matter how powerful they may be, are not godly because they are not the primary subject over all things.

A god who renders themselves ungodly by causing themselves to become a reflexive object of their own authority, binding themselves to a course of action which cannot be undone is no longer a god.

The entire establishment of monotheistic religions on this planet are based upon the direct relationship of a god to humankind and of that being's promise to be faithful to humanity upon their own self-sacrifice. A being who signs a contract is no longer a god and a god would never enter into an agreement that bound them to any course of action whatsoever. In fact, in order for a god to maintain their own authority or godliness, it would become necessary for them to refuse to enact their part of the bargain, because to do anything else is to become the object of some external authority.

A true god would not bind themselves in covenants. They might proclaim their will to be carried out by their followers with the threat of violence as a penalty for disobedience, but they would never negotiate. A being which negotiates is either unable or unwilling to impose their will upon reality and such a being is not a god. The only plausible explanation is either the monotheistic gods are all universally liars or that some other deception is unfolding.

For a god to create a world which limits his own authority would be for him to diminish himself. In this act of self-sacrifice to his people in order that they might have primacy over their own existences, why then go through all the effort of leading them back into slavery? These two assertions are contradictory at best and the mind that can hold them both as equivalently true simultaneously is one that has abandoned reason and succumbed to the forces of insanity.

The only assertion that is sensible is that the creator of this universe wanted to bestow primary authority upon us, and thus for him to change his mind and decide to lead us back to slavery would be for him to admit his action was in error.

If a god is the absolute subject over reality and he admits that he has been mistaken, then his is no longer morally perfect.

If god wanted you to have freedom, for him to be perfect, this must not have been in error thus you should employ your freedom.

If god does not want you to have freedom, and he is a god over you, then there is nothing you could do to resist him. He would not need to ask for your cooperation.

If you please a god who is imperfect, have you diminished your own potential by settling for less than perfection?

If you please a god who does not want you to have freedom, how can you trust that he will be faithful to you when it is his turn to enact his end of the bargain you've struck with him?

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 03:23 PM
Thread title mentioned proof...

I see only opinion.

Not meant as an attack, just sayin'...

My own personal experience tells me that God is extremely good.

You can either believe the Father of Lights or you can believe the father of lies.

Your choice...

EDIT: I just wanted to add that I'm not condoning religion in any way, shape, or form.

I hate it with a passion and I believe that God does as well...

Also added a S&F because I think you are bringing up some valid points that NEED answers.

The father of lies is well acquainted with the Father of Lights. He fears him. We need to know that “every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of Lights, in whom there is no shadow of turning.” So this means to me, despite my past, my failures and every weakness I carry in my being, God ‘s love for me never changes. He always loves me.

God’s love is indescribable and it’s impossible to imagine it’s depth and magnitude. When the Father of Light casts even a glance on the father of lies – the truth is exposed, and the lies that he’s crafted lose all their power. What is the truth? The truth is that satan is a liar who is out to steal, kill and destroy all people. God says I am His Beloved (truth). Satan says I’m not worthy (lie). Who I choose to believe will make the difference in how I live my life.

Father of Lights VS the father of lies

Don't be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. ~ James 1:16-26

I went into making this film by asking the simple question: who is God? I wanted to know His character, His personality, and who He truly is. To answer this question, we had to peel back the many layers of religious garbage that has been passed onto him through generations. That He is angry. Vengeful. Wrathful. And in general, that He doesn’t like you very much. Father of Lights attempts to tear away much of the bad press the Almighty has received over the years, and reveals a God who is far better than anyone could have possibly imagined.

edit on 30-9-2014 by Murgatroid because: I felt like it..

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 03:35 PM
a reply to: Nechash

A god is a being whose entire reality is established and enacted by their own will alone.

Your entire thesis can be revised if you know what the will of God is. His will, as demonstrated by nature and by the Bible, is to give and receive. Based on this will, it would be necessary to do a few things enabling his will to be the primary focus of His creation:

1) Restriction (law)
2) An Environment that abides in law, restricting all action to a parallel reaction.
3) Promise for future reception of good when law is eliminated by love and our own will to give rather than take.

The God you are describing is capable of taking without giving again. The true God demonstrates His will by giving only. In all cases, the negative we experience in this life is a direct result of the reaction of law as a consequence of action. God has nothing to do with this other than the original set of laws that restrict the life form to the same will. As you point out, he is sovereign over his creation, but not necessarily bound himself by it. His is bound to his will, which is the primary requirement of all creation. What is the restriction and how to we overcome the restriction.

1) Love. Love can only give, preserve, defend and protect. It always gives, is always patient and produces the fruits of the Spirit.

2) Law. The reaction and restriction to any life that does not abide in the one law.

edit on 30-9-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 03:38 PM
a reply to: Murgatroid

A proof is characterized by the habit of deducing. Starting with premises, you work through the soundness of certain statements and arrive at one or more possible conclusions. Your assertion that you see only opinion is fine and all, but an opinion should be defined as an assertion that stems from personal preferences and has no real basis in logic or reason. This is literally the opposite of an opinion if you accept an objective reality as true, but that doesn't mean my assertion is unbiased. I can agree with that premise. The very idea of a god offends my sensibilities, and I must strive to be less discriminatory against their race of being.

I guess naturally occurring hierarchies cannot be avoided, but the only system I find to be moral would be one which strives to uplift lower creatures so that the gap in power is reduced over time, pyramids being inherently tyrannical structures. Under that system, every god would be morally bound to step aside to allow lower being to assert their own creative authority and to cultivate a community of individual development so that the least of us could strive every day to become more godlike in their natures and activities. Now, that is an opinion. If you contrast that to what I said above, maybe you can come to understand the distinguishing features that set these two objects apart.

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 03:41 PM
Using logic to prove (or disprove) something that, by definition, transcends logic. Fascinating.

Do human beings think so much of themselves that they believe their own understanding of reality is superior to that which created it in the first place?

Human logic is completely irrelevant within the realm of spiritual experience. This is what Atheists don't understand--no one you are trying to convert cares one iota about your logic. It simply isn't applicable to the subject matter.

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 03:48 PM
a reply to: AlephBet

If god is good and benevolent to humanity and does not seek for us to destroy our own independence, I would love to get to know him someday on much more equal terms. So long as my reality is a series of lures and penalties constantly striving to undermine my own independence, we are going to have a bad time. I will never give up my individual will. I will do what I believe to be virtuous and good, especially if given an opportunity to do so in a less chaotic and offensive environment, but I will not do so because commanded to, but because I want to live in a world that is good and virtuous as defined by me.

There can be an unlimited number of things which have zero authority and simply obey programming being projected to them by some superior force, but the opportunity for independence is rare and limited. In the great vastness of the physical universe there are only 7 billion actors that we can verify representing less than one ten millionth of a percent of the totality of our physical universe.

Of these 7 billion, how many are operating their egos in a direct authoritative manner? How many sacrifice their own will to other forces in any given moment? How many believe lies and respond only to lies, not to reality itself? How many embrace their chains and derive comfort from them? Of these 7 billion how many have a spark of illumination dancing behind their eyes? How many breathe new life into this world? This seems to me to be the rarest of gifts and any god who would make himself an enemy of independence is not one I ever wish to obey.
edit on 30-9-2014 by Nechash because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 03:50 PM
a reply to: NthOther

My primary interest in this life is epidemiology. I have crafted many vaccines.

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 03:50 PM
a reply to: NthOther

repost. I didn't even click twice.
edit on 30-9-2014 by Nechash because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 03:53 PM
a reply to: NthOther

This is the primary reason that I try to focus on studying people who have had hands on experience.

Personally, when I want to learn about something, my first thought is: "who has actually experienced it?"

IMHO using logic to try and understand the spiritual realm is complete waste of time...

Nothing wrong with head knowledge, but there is no better teacher than experience.

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 04:01 PM
a reply to: Murgatroid

Oh, that is where we share a great deal. I expect people to experience that reality firsthand as well. There are two trees that bear fruit. One that leads to bondage and one that leads to independence and I expect a mighty forest of Cedars to rise forth from this planet. If you can resist the pain and refrain from begging for relief at any cost, you can actually make something out of this life.

Would you heed the man who preaches obedience to god or would you the one who strives for greater self-reliance? You can sit at the feet of the teacher who spouts indifference to the fate of this world or you stand up as the warrior who fights for a better tomorrow. This planet is our only true birthright (for now) and transmuting this place into gold is our first godlike action. Once we build our tower to the heavens instead of being lead there to our slaughter, nothing will be impossible for us.

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 04:08 PM

originally posted by: Nechash

My primary interest in this life is epidemiology. I have crafted many vaccines.

Vaccination won't win you any points here.

But I do understand what you're saying. You're right, in that the stories religion has concocted to explain the common spirituality underlying everything... well, a lot of them don't make any sense. You are correct in pointing that out.

That's the problem we run into when we try to communicate un-communicable (ineffable) things to each other. Religion just wants you to read the book, listen to the preacher and believe it all. But all of those words are used in an attempt to describe an experience that cannot be succinctly described in any language known to man.

It is the illogical, ineffable experience itself that really matters, which is what religion tends to forget in its pursuit of political ends.

So I suppose I don't necessarily take objection to your criticism of religious semantics. Our opinions on that are actually closer than either of us would care to admit. What I do have a problem with is throwing the baby out with the baptismal water.

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 04:22 PM
a reply to: NthOther

Well, the fact we can speak cordially to one another is a good sign. This can allow us to set our egos aside so the path of dialectical synthesis can unfold. I am not afraid of epiphany and if epiphany is from god, then that aspect of himself is already a friend of mine. I have a problem with the avatar that most people worship as their Lord here on this Earth.

Whatever being is asking these lambs to slaughter themselves on its altar is not a goodness from my experience.

Ascending through hells, I have found that the only thing I constantly want is to return to the safety of this world. That barrier has been designed to keep us in the darkness. Whoever designed it is currently someone I am very thoroughly angry with. Every time I think I have the stamina to face the reality of my own death without running away like a scared animal, the multi-verse has a brand new surprise in store for me that sends me scattering back to the small creature that I am.

I'm about to just say screw this. You want to kill me, bring it on. I won't be afraid anymore. You want me to suffer, pour out your worst. I will not relent. I will crawl my way out of this pit until it kills me if that is what I must do. Let my corpse be a motivator for the next guy to try to at least make it as far as I did.

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 04:39 PM

originally posted by: Nechash
Would you heed the man who preaches obedience to god or would you the one who strives for greater self-reliance?

Don't make the same mistake Satan made with God...

What you are describing is exactly what got him evicted from Heaven.

Self righteous pride and the desire for power...

Worshiping and serving a false god AKA 'self'.

His desire to usurp Heaven and be "like the most High" is what got him drop kicked out of Heaven.

“I will ascend above the highest clouds, I will make myself like the Most High.” Isaiah 14:14

He refused to admit he was wrong. Eventually Lucifer became entrenched in his pride and God could no longer influence him. God reluctantly removed from his position of Chief Covering angel. Lucifer was thrown out of Heaven, along with the angels who had chosen to follow him. Satan had it all, he really did, think about it for a moment, his title was “Chief Covering angel” That means he was over ALL the other angels in Heaven! Source

Melisa: But if they could just see you...

Jesus: Not even that would be enough. Look at Satan, he stood before me in the very throne room of God. But he thought the beauty and the power bestowed was somehow earned. Gave himself over to pride. Scratch any sin and just below the surface you'll find pride...

Howard Pittman's NDE contains one of the most powerful illustration's about this I have ever read:

Consider having an audience with God, knowing that you had worked all of your life in Christian service, had served as a pastor, opened your home to children who were bruised and maimed – and God told you that your faith was dead and your works were in vain, and that the life that you had lived, the life you called a service, was an abomination. God told Bro. Pittman that untold millions are living the same kind of life and they are in danger of His everlasting wrath!

Why did God call Howard Pittman’s life an abomination? God, not in a gentle and quiet voice, but with thundering firmness and authority, told him that he had a false god in his life, and that he served this false god every day. Pittman had no idea what that could be as he did not profess any other religion, had no statues or shrines in his home, and bowed down to no other god. His false god that made his life an abomination was SELF!

Bro. Pittman saw the council of Satan and watched the rulers plan their strategy against the saints (Eph. 6:12). They are out to make the saints ineffective, making them believe they are OK if they do good works. He stood at the Throne Room entrance and heard the thundering voice of our God. What God said is quoted verbatim on these tapes. It was earth-shaking as he heard the words, "You are a Laodicean Christian." You serve a false god, SELF."

edit on 30-9-2014 by Murgatroid because: I felt like it..

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 04:42 PM
a reply to: Murgatroid

That is actually probably the best apologetic video I have seen for the Christian faith. I guess if a Deist were coming to me speaking this as a universal truth for all people, I'd probably be more receptive of it. I don't see how acknowledging a man who died during the imperial period of Rome almost 2000 years ago can lead someone to be more virtuous, enlightened or godlike than any other person.

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 04:50 PM
a reply to: Murgatroid

If we are to believe the myths, God wanted Lucifer to flutter around a little throne singing the Kodesh for all of eternity. He may have had a great title, but his actual existence seems pretty crappy to me. Could it be that a tyrant who is delusional enough to believe that he knows better about what might make you happy than your own desires do is really the Kim Jon Un of the cosmos? Sure, kick the one guy out who doesn't applaud when you enter a room and create a vast fallen wasteland and a series of elaborate tortures to disabuse those who disagree with you that they might possibly be on the right side of morality.

A sociopath believes he loves his victims before he murders them and wears their skin. This doesn't make them loving by any stretch of the imagination.

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 04:52 PM
a reply to: Murgatroid

What mistake?

I'd love to hear your opinion on how Satan allegedly made an error.

What if you are in error about God instead? Who says your God, is my God?

He seems rather small and limited to me. It is why i rejected your concept of God.
edit on 30-9-2014 by Not Authorized because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 04:57 PM
a reply to: Murgatroid

Thread title mentioned proof...

I see only opinion.

aaaaaand there's the pot calling the kettle black.

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 04:58 PM
a reply to: Murgatroid

Don't make the same mistake Satan made with God...

What you are describing is exactly what got him evicted from Heaven.

Self righteous pride and the desire for power...

Worshiping and serving a false god AKA 'self'.

pfft. that stuff got america started. i aint about to talk trash about independence when i celebrate it along with millions of other citizens every year. hell i celebrate it every day in little ways.

fyi being independent isnt worhipping yourself. and its loads better than these self-abasing boot-lickers whose idea of paradise is riding god's coattails into eternity.
edit on 30-9-2014 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-9-2014 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 05:11 PM
Perhaps all is not what it seems...

What if the unknowable God has nothing to do with our circumstance? What if something else were at play?

An interesting book I came across years ago while researching various religions had some very interesting things to say...what many religious folks might even consider blasphemy. It certainly is a fascinating read. The book is called the Forbidden Religion by Jose M. Herou Aragon. This is a direct quote from Chapter 17:


All throughout history, religious and political
institutions of the demiurge on Earth have deliberately
conspired to eliminate, or at least distort, the Gnostic vision
wherever it appears. Any systems of thought in which any
trace of Primordial Gnosis can be found is forbidden or
misconstrued. This is how dangerous Gnostic knowledge is
for the demiurge’s plans. Hiding the Truth is part of the
orchestrated plan so that man cannot wake up, let alone
rebel. This is about man remaining confused, misled and
half-asleep, so that he never comes to realise who he really
is and what situation he is in. That he never knows the truth
about what has happened, what his present reality is about
nor what his future will be. It is hoped that man never finds
out the right answers to these three fundamental questions:
Who am I? Why am I here? What am I supposed to be
But the Truth never disappears. Oppressed and hidden,
it will always struggle to be exposed. The worst thing that
can be done to the Truth is to forbid it. The opposite
effect will be produced: it will emerge with more
strength and violence.
What is the first thing that would have to be hidden?
Firstly, it would be necessary to eliminate the idea that
beyond the inefficient demiurge, another God exists,
superior to him and infinitely perfect.

In order to hide this part of Gnostic Truth, the idea that
the creator god and the Unknowable God are the same
thing has been invented, that together they form the only
existing god: the demiurge, creator of heaven and earth.
At the beginning of christianity, the great Gnostic
Master Marcion stated it very clearly: “the god of the old
testament is not the God of the new testament. They are two
different gods. The first is a god who applies the law and
punishes, whereas the other is a God of love who always
forgives. The two are irreconcilable”.
What can be done to conceal this? It was Origen who
came up with the following brilliant idea: “There are not
two different gods, one fair and the other good. It is the
same God, and he is fair and good”. This is how the
demiurge came to be good and perfect.
Secondly, this is how the difference between the
unknowable world and the created world has in this way
been eliminated as well. Anyone who refers to the
existence of the two irreconcilable kingdoms will be
derogatorily labelled as “dualist”; as if describing reality
just as it is were a bad thing. The conspirators reduced
everything to only one kingdom: the kingdom of the
Thirdly, if the demiurge is good and perfect, who can
we blame for all the bad things that exist in the world? If
the divine attributes of the Unknowable God have been
transferred to the demiurge, what about the demiurgic
attributes of evil and ineptitude, plagiarism and lying?
This is why the idea that the demiurge is not satan and
that satan is someone else has been invented. The demiurge
has become good and perfect, stripped of his satanic
features. All the evil now comes from this new satan who
is outside of him. The evil of the demiurge has been taken
outside, to a satan different to the creator. Now it is this
new satan who likes blood, the smell of burnt flesh, the
slaves, wars, rituals, sacrifices, conspiracies and genocide.
Now it is this new satan who enjoys the fact that men bow
down before him in adoration and make covenants or blood
pacts with him, in exchange for power or earthly wealth. It
is easy to discover that all the characteristics which satan
now has were taken from the creator god of the bible.
So this is what we have: the Unknowable God does not
exist, his attributes have been transferred to the demiurge,
and the attributes of the demiurge have been transferred to
a satan outside of him. What does this great conspiracy, this
big scam, now need? What is lacking is someone who we
can transform this satan into. It has to be someone who we
very much hate, since satan is the most wretched figure that
we can conceive of.
Fourthly, this is how the brilliant idea of this conspiracy
emerged: it occurred to someone that the most appropriate
way would be to disclose the fact that this evil satan is no
other than Lucifer. In this way, not only is the demiurge
“cleansed” of his satanic nature, but the figure of Lucifer is
also completely distorted. The Angel of Light, sent by the
Unknowable God to save mankind, was transformed into a
monster whose function is to keep man enslaved. A great
idea by the demiurge’s Earthly representatives and timely
revenge against Lucifer, the eternal enemy of the true satan:
the demiurge.
From two opposing and irreconcilable entities, the
creator god and the Unknowable God, one has been
formed: the demiurge “good and unique”. From two
opposing and irreconcilable worlds, one has been formed,
which is “good”: that of the demiurge. The same process
has occurred with the other two opposing and
irreconcilable entities: Lucifer and satan, the Messenger of
the True God and the creator satan of matter and time. They
have been transformed into one entity: The “satanic
Lucifer”. This is how the demiurge’s charlatans conspire
against the truth.
The belief that satan and Lucifer are one and the same
thing, what they call the devil, has remained up to this day.
In the New Testament, it is already established that Lucifer
and satan are the same (Luke, X.18) (2 Corinthians, XI.14).
Even in Mgr. Meurin’s work, which we quoted earlier, we
find the same confusion: he calls the demiurge “Jehovah-
Lucifer” and not “Jehovah-Satan”, which for him would
have been correct. And if Meurin, a very well known
theologian in the Roman Catholic world, made this
mistake, what can we expect from the average man?
Fifthly, what can be done to distort the Gnostic idea that
this created world is hell and that heaven is the plane of the
Unknowable God? The conspirators have conceived of the
following idea: they state that this world is not hell, that
hell is outside, far from here. Hell would be a place of
punishment for those who disobey the demiurge during
their lives here on Earth. And what characteristics would
this hell have? It occurred to someone that the typical
characteristics of the unknowable world could serve very
well as a setting for this new hell. If Lucifer, Bearer of
Light, a being of fire who is represented ablaze with fire, is
satan, we could then say that this hell would be a place full
of flames. A place where “sinners” are burnt."

Fascinating read though not for the faint of heart.

posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 05:23 PM

originally posted by: teknalchemist
The book is called the Forbidden Religion by Jose M. Herou Aragon. Fascinating read though not for the faint of heart.

Just in case anyone actually whips out a credit card for this book...

Read some of the reviews first:

22 of 29 people found the following review helpful
Matter is ... satanic??? Therefore the creator is satanic????
By Kindle Addict on September 1, 2013

I wish there was a category for zero stars. I'm glad this was free, because if not, for the first time ever I would have asked Amazon for a refund on a Kindle book that I purchased. The above treatise: "Matter is something satanic, therefore whoever created it must also be a satanic being" was found within the first few pages in the book. And it only seemed to get worst. This was not as expected. I thought this would be a scholarly examination of the ancient gnostic religion. Whew, was I wrong!!! Now I have to figure out how to delete a book entirely from your collection.

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