Is cheating natural?

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: Annee

Humans are animals.

Humans are mammals we are supposed to be humans.

We are still animals.

Cheating is taking what was not earned. Example, i weigh 300 pounds i take drugs and loose 130 pounds and still eat like crap and vegetate in front of the tv. You didn't earn that weight loss honestly and with hard work.

You make others believe your smart, you cheat on a test. Not earned.

Cheating has to do with trust, when you cheat you are conprimising the trust someone has for you, this includes yourself.

Those who compare us to animals, we have a deeper conscious than animals and we should realize the difference.

We all want to take ahortcuts, but doesn't that almost always lead to a bad result? That is what my experience tells me.

originally posted by: Char-Lee

Then why do humans have such possessive natures and jealousy? Most people feel pain when their lover wants more than one.

Part of it may be that in Western culture right now, monogamy is the social norm. We are socialized to believe that one person should be able to be "enough" for someone romantically & sexually. If our partner says that is not the case, that one person is not enough, it can feel like a judgment -- that we are not good enough, that we are not "enough" for that person.

In a society in which some form of polygamy was the norm, we may not feel the same way, since we wouldn't have that ideal of one person completely romantically and sexually satisfying a person in our minds. (Annee gave an example.)

There is also probably some variation among humans when it comes to how many partners they are comfortable with -- the monogamy thing had to come from somewhere, right?

In any case, whether or not it is natural, lying to one's partner and sneaking around is definitely unethical/immoral.

originally posted by: bitsforbytes
Those who compare us to animals, we have a deeper conscious than animals and we should realize the difference.

I think it's just silly to try to deny humans are animals.

The famous anthropologist Clifford Geertz once said that he believed "man is an animal suspended in webs of significance he himself has spun." Ultimately, the only animals who buy the idea that humans aren't animals are humans themselves.

io9.com...

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: Annee

Humans are animals.

Humans are mammals we are supposed to be humans.

We are still animals.

Then the animals are us and should be treated as equals also.

a reply to: asilvahalo
My opinion.
I have know couples who had "open marriages" even people who feel that it is normal and healthy end up feeling like one person is loved more or other extreme problems leading even violence. I think it is totally abnormal for us, there are many species that mate for life and I think we are normally most healthy and happy that way.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: bitsforbytes
Those who compare us to animals, we have a deeper conscious than animals and we should realize the difference.

I think it's just silly to try to deny humans are animals.

The famous anthropologist Clifford Geertz once said that he believed "man is an animal suspended in webs of significance he himself has spun." Ultimately, the only animals who buy the idea that humans aren't animals are humans themselves.

io9.com...

I see animals as equals I don't eat them, own them or feel I have rights over them so I only disagree because people believe we are ABOVE them and then go back and say we are them when it is convenient to make a point.

originally posted by: Char-Lee

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: bitsforbytes
Those who compare us to animals, we have a deeper conscious than animals and we should realize the difference.

I think it's just silly to try to deny humans are animals.

The famous anthropologist Clifford Geertz once said that he believed "man is an animal suspended in webs of significance he himself has spun." Ultimately, the only animals who buy the idea that humans aren't animals are humans themselves.

io9.com...

I see animals as equals I don't eat them, own them or feel I have rights over them so I only disagree because people believe we are ABOVE them and then go back and say we are them when it is convenient to make a point.

No. It's just science.

Cheating only applies to games and tests, unless your talking about being dishonest, and when George Carlin broke the 10 commandments down into two commandments.

Call it the path of "Least Resistance". Like lightning, it always wants to take the shortest path to earth.

This is common in the animal kingdom, since most animals normally won't fight unless its for their very survival and will employ their own natural tactics to a fight that animal could win. It would take a lot of energy for a carnivore to fight a prey that could fight back and even mortally wound it so it generally not worth the risk.

Let say for example, a pack of wolfs are trying to take down a lone Moose. Now, the only way a wolf could get a meal out of it is by having it pack with, simultaneously attacking due to the fact that the Moose is 5 times and could easily crush them if there not careful.

Now if this was a human conflict lets say, a barfight, you got one big guy thats like a moose that could fight taking 4 or five smaller guys, you'd naturally think the groups is pack of cheaters. But then, that moose should be picking a fight with someone his own size, so maybe hes the cheater, naturally or technical.

Theres a saying that goes like this..."Cheaters never really prosper".

So no it not natural, it just more or less being conservative really.

This "friend" of yours. Are you experiencing feelings for them by any chance?

originally posted by: American-philosopher
I was having a conversation with a friend of mine and you know you have one conversation on a topic which leads to another topic and so on and so on. So I forget what actually lead us to this. My friend was making the allegation that it is natural for us as humans to cheat. That when we look at nature there is cheating by animals. he gave the example of a bird who builds a nest and another bird comes and takes that nest.

I countered and then said "I don't think it is natural for us to cheat I think Natural Law comes into play. And that generally humans want to abide by Natural Law.

he then came back and said haven't you ever had the urge to cheat? And I know now were getting into the territory of Nietzsche and his sayings on the topic of Urge's and all that.

I still say that it is not natural for us as humans to cheat. and philosophically I believe cheating is not natural. There almost contradictory of one another. hence the term cheating the system.

I would like to know what others think is cheating natural and do we as humans just fight our natural urge to cheat? Most of us anyways.

a reply to: Annee

Dont you think we have a huge advantage over other living creatures? Kind of like an adult and child. We have the ability to control our animal impulses. Some do more than others.

I respect animals like i respect people to a certain extent, you cant reason with a dog or a monkey. They don't write like we do for example, write poetry. They dont beleive like we do.

Perhaps we are a sheet from the same cloth, but there are trumendous differences between us. I cant deny our similarities as well.

No, cheating is not natural. It is a learned behavior.

A child left ignorant of cheating and cheating ways would not cheat.

An adult with a strong set of core principles and a mind of his or her own would also not cheat.

My two cents anyway.

Dupe.

Much like death is natural murder is not. To better ones self is natural, but to cheat or take a shortcut to arrive to the desired result is not.

That is why cheating is not natural.

originally posted by: bitsforbytes
a reply to: Annee

Dont you think we have a huge advantage over other living creatures? Kind of like an adult and child. We have the ability to control our animal impulses. Some do more than others.

I respect animals like i respect people to a certain extent, you cant reason with a dog or a monkey. They don't write like we do for example, write poetry. They dont beleive like we do.

Perhaps we are a sheet from the same cloth, but there are trumendous differences between us. I cant deny our similarities as well.

An evolved animal is still an animal.

Science/biology.

originally posted by: bitsforbytes
Much like death is natural murder is not.

Animals will kill others of the same species over territory or mates. Unfortunately, murder is natural, at least for very territorial species, including one of humans' close relatives, chimpanzees.

It's immoral, but at least some forms of it are behaviors we also see in animals (ie. "natural").

WHat you are trying to say is Cheating is Natural but due to our social structure and written principals it makes it wrong.

I am against cheating of course, because we have rules and principals that are needed to sustain a family.


If groups of kids were let to grow up on their own, with no outside influence, you think they would not practice polygamy?

Heck, they would not even know they "cheated" because there is no contract between them like married or close couples do.

a reply to: luciddream

That's not what I was "trying" to say at all.

a reply to: asilvahalo

True, but morals for man and animals are different i would hope. The ideal is no murder amongst man, animals dont undetstand ideals.

a reply to: Annee

Biologically i agree. Psychologically we are not animals anymore. Some still are, but we are striving for something better no?