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Is cheating natural?

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posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 12:51 PM
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I was having a conversation with a friend of mine and you know you have one conversation on a topic which leads to another topic and so on and so on. So I forget what actually lead us to this. My friend was making the allegation that it is natural for us as humans to cheat. That when we look at nature there is cheating by animals. he gave the example of a bird who builds a nest and another bird comes and takes that nest.

I countered and then said "I don't think it is natural for us to cheat I think Natural Law comes into play. And that generally humans want to abide by Natural Law.

he then came back and said haven't you ever had the urge to cheat? And I know now were getting into the territory of Nietzsche and his sayings on the topic of Urge's and all that.

I still say that it is not natural for us as humans to cheat. and philosophically I believe cheating is not natural. There almost contradictory of one another. hence the term cheating the system.

I would like to know what others think is cheating natural and do we as humans just fight our natural urge to cheat? Most of us anyways.




posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: American-philosopher

Apes are pretty sneaky animals, and since we are just apes-in-the-wind, maybe it is natural on some level in the brain. Depends on what you define 'cheating' as. On tests, on your spouse, on your tax report, or all of the above.



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: American-philosopher

It's only cheating if you get caught. Otherwise it's natural.


My wife of course has a Different take on the matter.

Peace



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:05 PM
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edit on 30-9-2014 by NarcolepticBuddha because: misinterpreted the title. my mind went straight to relationships when reading the OP


Everybody has their own sense of what's right and wrong, natural and unnatural. It's unnatural for me to cheat at anything, whether it's just a board game or something more high-stakes. Some people cheat their way to the top without a violation of personal ethics.

Nature produces cheaters and non-cheaters.


edit on 30-9-2014 by NarcolepticBuddha because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:05 PM
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a reply to: Aleister

we can define it on all those levels.

I would say cheating anyway you gain and unfair advantage on someone or something


+6 more 
posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:06 PM
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a reply to: American-philosopher

It's only natural for a cheater. Part of what differentiates humans from animals is that we can control urges and not act on impulses. That whole idea is completely lost on people. It sounds to me like your friend is just trying to justify cheating, which in my opinion, is douche baggery of the highest order.
edit on 30-9-2014 by kx12x because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: American-philosopher

absolutely ...watch how kids learn from each other...they copy and mimic...or cheat to some extent...it is not until later in their lives they reverse everything they have learned naturally and tell them to longer do that...and then it becomes cheating.



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: American-philosopher

I suppose that would depend on IF one believes "betrayal" is natural...


For some it comes quite naturally... but that also destroys the ties I have between myself and that person...

For myself.... Betrayal means goodbye

so this question depends on the person




posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:14 PM
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a reply to: American-philosopher

This is as simple as pie. You have to find someone
you would never do that which you do not want
done to you. I've been cheated on and cheated. I
found out they both suck. The right person can
instantly make you a better person. That's all
I have to say about that.



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posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: American-philosopher

Apparently according to imo conservative stastics, cheating is the norm.



www.truthaboutdeception.com...

And American culture is rooted in the Jadeo/Christian ethic that hypocricy and outright lying is also the norm.



www.stevepavlina.com...

And what do you define as cheating....Phone sex, porn interactive sites, or does physical contact need to occur.

Is Lust of the flesh....cheating? If so...everyone is guilty eh?




edit on 30-9-2014 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: American-philosopher
Good question for discussion!

I think Nature shows no concern for what we call 'cheating'.
It does seem to be normal...in Nature.

Smaller predators thieve the spoils from larger predators (obviously - at great risk)...when the larger is distracted.

Survival is the motivation, I suppose.

A smaller man may cheat to make up the advantage of larger, stronger men...
Some women who count themselves aesthetically disadvantaged, may spread falsehoods about other women in hope of leveling the field of play.

...



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: WanDash
a reply to: American-philosopher
I think Nature shows no concern for what we call 'cheating'.
It does seem to be normal...in Nature.

Smaller predators thieve the spoils from larger predators (obviously - at great risk)...when the larger is distracted.


I wouldn't even call that cheating. To cheat is to have an unfair advantage that one would not normally have in a given situation for gain. (my on-the-fly definition for the sake of this thread.)

Especially in the animal kingdom, different animals are equipped to employ certain techniques for survival.

I think that's very different than human cheating because it's not like I was born with answers to next week's history test, you know?




edit on 30-9-2014 by NarcolepticBuddha because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: American-philosopher

Does not cheating imply an agreed upon set of rules? I do not think that one bird agreed with another bird,"hey, lets not take one another's nests."
To my mind, cheating and hypocrisy go hand in hand. A mate who promises fidelity and then dallies with another is a "cheater". A person who sits at a poker table with an established gentlemans set of rules of the game and then pulls an ace from his cuff is a cheater.

To say that cheating is part of human nature I think is short of the point. Do children agree to rules willingly? I think not so much. They have always seemed to me to be rather free agents until they are inculcated with the working rules of their society. When, at an age that they agree with moving forward with their lives with those rules taken axiomatically and they then or later violate those rules, it is not that they are cheating someone else, or the system, but rather that they are violating the creation of themselves which in part was an agreement to those rules.



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: American-philosopher

Does not cheating imply an agreed upon set of rules?


Great point. In fact, that satisfies the OP's question for me. You will hardly find agreed upon rules in the animal kingdom. Sure, there are examples of social reciprocity, but definitely no agreements.

So maybe having rules is not natural



edit on 30-9-2014 by NarcolepticBuddha because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:43 PM
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originally posted by: American-philosopher
a reply to: Aleister

we can define it on all those levels.

I would say cheating anyway you gain and unfair advantage on someone or something



It depends on what it is we are doing. Cheating on a game you are playing by yourself is FINE, cheating on your diet is FINE. Cheating when someone else is involved should NEVER be fine or for that matter any type of stealing. "Cheating"
is different from stealing though.

I dont think cheating is natural and it is basically a character flaw. Some people have this flaw more than others.



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: rockpaperhammock

I don't understand you made a case for both arguments



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:45 PM
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I just think it is human nature to try and achive, to better ones self, we work hard, strive to get forward. If cheating helps that, then for some they will do it, we set rules and standards to live by, they are different all over teh world, and even within close knit communities there is individual differences.

And how can you determine what is cheating? Because it goes against the norm of local cultural acceptance? For example if you are married and then go and marry someone else you are a cheater, a bigamist, actually no, it really depends on where you live and the cultural accepted norms, if your a Muslim you can have more than one wife, certain Morman sects accept more than one wife.

People will always stive to be better than those around them (Yes I know there are exceptions, I am talking in general terms) some will cheat at exams, because they fear failure, some will cheat on their spouse for some unsatisfied need inside themselves, some cheating could even be classed at progression, who can throw a spear the furthest? the guy who invented the bow, people will always try to better themselves, some are happy to do it at teh expense of others and will cheat, it is part of human nature, such as lust and greed, some overcome their negative engeries others don't, and looking around the world, those that don't sure seem to far outnumber those that do...



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: WanDash

okay but for animals when you say there cheating to get spoils or food I think there just doing what's natural to eat. Because Iike you say some animals may be predators.



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: American-philosopher

NO!

Its not natural to be a lying, no-good, POS. Its not natural at all. Only cheaters use this defense.



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:50 PM
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Cheating, stealing and lying are all a lack of honesty, which people of moral integrity choose to overcome and rise above, ever since first shaking our heads as toddlers. With telltale signs of chocolate around our mouths we shook our heads when asked if we took a cookie, because we wanted more and therefore wanted to avoid punishment which would be a sure fire way not to get any more.

So while a desire for instant gratification may urge us to go for whatever we want, for those with a moral compass it has become the norm to aim towards behaviors that keep a person on an honest path.

Is it natural to want to develop and progress in a deceptive way? Our current world leaders are a fine example of things we regularly denounce and criticize, such as corruption, deception, lack of transparency, all co-behaviors of dishonesty.




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