Global Climate Change is Entirely Man-Made

a reply to: mc_squared

There's no single cure to this massive problem because of how deeply ingrained it is to our economy - but there are plenty of viable treatments that would lead society back on the road to sustainability:

There really are - nice post. It will take a change in attitude - grassroots - and it's not going to go smoothly

But there is money - boatloads of it - to be made from going green. There are people who will join the effort because they want to do the right thing - and there are plenty that will get on board for profit

:-)

I don't care - so long as we keep moving from one side to the other

Green Divestment Movement Still in Its Infancy Despite Rockefeller Coup

In announcing last week that it would purge its portfolio of fossil fuel investments, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund did more than make a financial decision; it joined a movement.

The fund became the latest and largest grant maker to sign on with Divest-Invest Philanthropy, an alliance of foundations that are, in their words, "divesting their assets in fossil fuels and investing in climate solutions and the new energy economy."

Like the headline says - still a long way to go. - but finally...just - finally

a reply to: beezzer

It may be effective locally, but we are talking about other countries who disregard these initiatives.

The USA is still a major holdout when it comes to the serious work to be done. For years we've been dragging our feet while the rest of the world shook it's head - and we're still not on board

This is a global problem - the likes of which we've never seen before. There's plenty of work to be done here at home first before we start pointing fingers. Plenty of people have been pointing fingers at us for decades

Understand - if we make significant changes here it will only make things easier for everyone. Any technology, innovations or systems for change in the right direction will spread

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

Specially when those behind doing the checking have a schedule of profit to make for the ones controlling the scam.

a reply to: pikestaff

Actually big countries polluters will wait when US start taxing us for CO2 emissions and then they will used all that money that they have accumulated while buying our debt, to buy credits to keep polluting.

The countries that will cut on their emissions or that do not have a lot of pollution will accumulate plenty of carbon credits to trade.

originally posted by: beezzer


China and India, 2 of the biggest criminals aren't going to do anything about their carbon output.

1 - China
2 - America
3 - India


You're probably 90% of the worlds pollution and carbon pollution right there.

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

Stop supporting the system you want to change and it will have to change.

:-)

Yes - yes to that whole post

I was discussing this with a friend day before yesterday. When the reality hits people - like a genuine epiphany - the rest of it becomes an easy choice

Considering that less than 1% of the surface of the planet is occupied by humans, plus facts like previous climate changes happened before humans existed, the fact that water vapor is more of a greenhouse gas than CO2, of which by the way volcanoes spill out more than what we do, I believe the only reason for propagating the idea of man-made climate change is to hold back emerging economic powers like China. It works because as a species we're very egoccentric and tend to think the world revolves around our fat bellies. It's a valid strategy, but a shameless lie nonetheless. Hey, I'm not in favor of pollution nor am I against alternative energy sources, I just don't like being lied to.

Look up the term "useful idiot" then go look in the mirror.a reply to: beezzer

a reply to: xuenchen

Yes the earth is responsible for a lot of climate change. When your house is on fire you don't throw gasoline on it. That is what man I s doing through greed. Let's keep this problem under control and stop adding to it.

a reply to: beezzer

Also beezzer - you'll soon figure out - this position is not for cowards

You can be popular - or you can be part of the solution

I'm glad to see you take a stand

a reply to: Deny777

Your not seeing the big picture. If we lived like we did hundreds of years ago our footprint would not matter, even with the billions living here.

Just one brand new car is more resources used than man used to use up in a lifetime. Just one car. Not including all the manufacturing waste of everything else we make. Its an industrial problem, not how many of us that inhabit earth. Jut the toys in a McDonalds happy meal is more than we used for resources at one time. Think then post.

originally posted by: Oudoceus
Look up the term "useful idiot" then go look in the mirror.a reply to: beezzer

lolz

(I hate it when my dad gets online!)

The house isn't on fire. The windows are letting in sunlight that solid walls would block.

Thanks to our thermometer we can see that the room is warmer when the curtains are open.

originally posted by: Deny777
Considering that less than 1% of the surface of the planet is occupied by humans, plus facts like previous climate changes happened before humans existed, the fact that water vapor is more of a greenhouse gas than CO2,

But that's irrelevant because it's in statistical equilibrium with the oceans and there is a two week typical timescale for the water cycle, as opposed to thousands of years for CO2. Approximately the amount of water vapor is determined by the temperature. So the water vapor, climatologically is a feedback which modifies (upwards, and up and down with clouds) the response from long lived drivers.

of which by the way volcanoes spill out more than what we do,

factually false.

I believe the only reason for propagating the idea of man-made climate change is to hold back emerging economic powers like China. It works because as a species we're very egoccentric and tend to think the world revolves around our fat bellies. It's a valid strategy, but a shameless lie nonetheless.

The idea of man-made climate change is a fact.

Hey, I'm not in favor of pollution nor am I against alternative energy sources, I just don't like being lied to.

I don't either. When people say that water vapor is important and there by implication CO2 is not, they are lying to you. When they say that volcanoes emit more than people, they are lying to you.

These are elementary scientific principles which the scientists in the field recognized literally decades ago and the contrary notions you expressed shouldn't even be remotely in discussion in policy debates any more than the leprechaun menace.

China recognizes the factual nature of atmospheric physics, even though the policy recommendations of course hurt their economic growth. They are strongly encouraging electric vehicles and are the only country building nuclear plants in any quantity. They have a tremendous lower atmospheric pollution problem as well. They don't deny that smog comes from burning coal, and don't deny that CO2 is a warming greenhouse gas and burning fossil fuels changes this signficantly.

Not facts. If you didn't measure it yourself with 100% acurate and objective methods beyond questioning, and can't prove it by removing the affecting factor from the system and measuring how much the former affects the later, do not call it a fact. We're discussing tehories at best, and by the way, let's keep it civil, shall we? What's up with telling me to "think, then post"?

You guys complicate it too much.

It's real simple.

Take the Carbon tax off the table. Switch the subsidies and tax breaks we give to big fossil fuel companies and give it to renewable energy. No money spent. Give the EPA more teeth to enact fines and shut down polluting companies. Make it easier for companies like Tesla, Solar City and other companies like that to operate. Make it harder to have power company monopolies in areas. That's it.

Worry about our neck of the woods and not what India and China are doing. All the stuff that we do to combat global warming, ultimately combats pollution.

There you go.

Oh, also adding that some of the stuff we talk about with global warming also relates to mass migration of people from drought or flood effected areas. Let's put some resources there. Also flood and hurricane protections like in New Orleans and florida etc. Again, nothing earth shattering and all easy to do.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

But there is money - boatloads of it - to be made from going green. There are people who will join the effort because they want to do the right thing - and there are plenty that will get on board for profit

For sure, and there's nothing wrong with doing it for profit either, as long as it's done in a responsible, non-exploitative way.

That's where so much of the backlash to the climate change issue comes from though - the fact that a global strategy for measured and ethical capitalism based around sustainable policy severely clashes with the take no prisoners hacksaw approach that's become the gold standard for greed.

That's why so many of these industry shills keep painting renewables and "going green" with this boogieman myth that it's not economically viable and we're all going to starve in the streets as a result.

There is plenty of room for profit and growth in this market, just not in the belligerent Ponzi scheme style that today's business leaders have become intoxicated on.


But there's still money in it for sure. The primary difference is you're selling efficiency, sustainability and energy independence to people - rather than finite resources, planned obsolescence, and crushing debt.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: mc_squared

For the most part, sound advice.

But does this do anything on a global scale?

It may be effective locally, but we are talking about other countries who disregard these initiatives.

It's like your house is on fire, but you dowsed the sofa. It may clear the air for a bit, but the house still burns.

Well there's nothing about those solutions that can't be implemented across the globe. You don't need some totalitarian global government to make it happen either, just an agreement legally binding enough, with the right leadership and accountability in place, to make all parties committed and responsible.

I think deflecting everything onto China and India is just another cop out in the apathy handbook of global warming excuses anyway.

First of all in many ways China is actually leading the push in renewables:

China Leads The World In Renewable Energy Investment

China’s Spending on Renewable Energy May Total 1.8 Trillion Yuan

And India has the potential to become an economic powerhouse because of its clean energy resources:

India is the Saudi Arabia of renewable energy sources and, if properly utilized, India can realize its place in the world as a great power

Can India Achieve 100% Renewable Energy?


So it's rather silly and naive to just say "oh they'll never do it". This argument has no merit and is really just another FOX News-style meme that many people swallow because it's easier to digest than the much more complicated reality.


The problem isn't that China and India aren't willing or able to engage in solutions, the problem is that we've also had a 200 year head start on them in economic energy prosperity, and they are eager to take as many shortcuts as possible to catch up now.

On that end we need to take more leadership rather than just hold onto our false sense of entitlement over this, and wait for someone else to blink first.


...
Beyond that many of the things I outlined in the previous post - like vacation time, transportation infrastructure, meat consumption, etc - other countries around the world are already ahead of the curve on anyway.

The problem is we are the ones corrupting them by bringing our triple baconator combos over there in the name of profits over progress.

originally posted by: amazing
You guys complicate it too much.

It's real simple.

Take the Carbon tax off the table. Switch the subsidies and tax breaks we give to big fossil fuel companies and give it to renewable energy. No money spent. Give the EPA more teeth to enact fines and shut down polluting companies. Make it easier for companies like Tesla, Solar City and other companies like that to operate. Make it harder to have power company monopolies in areas. That's it.

Worry about our neck of the woods and not what India and China are doing. All the stuff that we do to combat global warming, ultimately combats pollution.

There you go.

Oh, also adding that some of the stuff we talk about with global warming also relates to mass migration of people from drought or flood effected areas. Let's put some resources there. Also flood and hurricane protections like in New Orleans and florida etc. Again, nothing earth shattering and all easy to do.

Personally, I don't buy the whole "global warming/climate change" crap...There just are not enough time-borne facts to prove anything, at this point! It's all speculation, and even the many models established have all proved to be wrong.

At this stage, it's still about fear-mongering, and the greed-driven, smoke-blowers are laughing all the way to the bank!


With that being said, I am all for the immediate need to wean ourselves off of big oil! But, I don't agree that it is as simple as you say. Do you really think that the money makers and power brokers behind the current status quo, are going to let anyone just cut them off? And, flip the tables to support all of the small-time entrepreneurs, that big oil has maintained a steady campaign of underhanded business tactics against, without one hell of a fight?

It'll never happen! We would have to literally tear down the monopolies, that have been built to staggering proportions through payouts, pay-offs and probably worse, and make absolutely sure, that they can never be rebuilt, again...

But, who on God's (still) green earth, could do it, without succumbing to some ill-timed 'accident' before they even got started?


Yes...Your plan is simple. Getting it done?...A whole other story!

a reply to: GoOfYFoOt


It's already started. Elon Musk with Tesla and Solar City. He's already paved the way, proving that Solar panel companies and electric car companies can compete and make money. Other's will follow. It doesn't take much to create a sea change. Small things become big things, sometimes small seemingly inconsequential things become enormous things....The Boston Tea party...that was a small thing that had big consequences...the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand...WW1 would have happened anyway but that was a catalyst or a tipping point. I have more faith that these things will happen. I think Tesla was a tipping point. Only time will prove if I'm right.