Nurse Fired for Refusing Flu Shot Sues Hospital, Federal and State Governments for $100,000,000

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
Who the $&@& cares about autism!!!!!! Come on! That's only one aspect of vaccines. The flu vaccine DOESN'T work!!!!! Every idiot for and against vaccines wants to argue the safety of vaccination.... Ok fine go argue like mindless children.... Leave the science and efficacy of vaccines to those of us that understand basic immunology and physiology! The antibodies produced by the flu vaccine produce IgG where as the antibodies naturally produced by the actual wild virus stimulates IgA! IgA is what research has shown a actually prevents throat colonization of influenza! The point is most vaccines may not only be unsafe but actually offer little if any protection. Moreover because vaccine immunity is not the same as naturally acquired immunity out children are less able to fight off naturally acquired disease and all the over vaccinated female children now will be passing on VERY little natural antibodies on to their offspring!!! So then we will all be unable to fight off natural disease and all have to rely on vaccines..... Hence see where this is going????? It doesn't take a genius to see we are destroying our perfectly evolved and robust immune systems! But yeah vaccines certainly without a doubt couldn't POSSIBLY cause autism!!!!! Lol idiots some pro-vaccine people are.

I will have to say that I don't think you know as much as you believe you do.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Nobody gives the flu shot intranasally in most settings in the US genius! Hence my point!

Hopefully no-one anywhere gives the flu shot intranasally.
However, FluMist is used extensively in the US and other parts of the world which weakens your point quite a bit.

Ha! Flumist has been around for 10+ years and it's hardly used "extensively" in most US healthcare settings. Your little research article never mentioned how much IgA levels were raised.

Why do people like you so blindly believe in vaccines and vaccine science? Seriously, that's what I don't get. The history, science, efficacy, safety, etc is so tenuous at best but people like you act like Jesus himself exclaimed vaccines as the word of god! Lol every single other aspect of drugs, science, etc. many of which has more convincing historical and medical perspectives surrounding them yet you cling to vaccines like they are some sort of holy grail. I'm not against vaccines or vaccine science. I just don't think we should be jabbing our children and babies with umpteen million vaccines by the time they are teenagers. But people like you act like vaccines are a cure all for everything inflicting human beings. Lol

The fact that it's used at all weakens what you posted earlier (it's use has grown quite a bit since its release).

It's perfectly reasonable to question safety and efficacy of any drug or therapy but when people ignore the available data and effectively make up their own then I have to argue.

I'm also not a big fan of self-proclaimed experts on the field like Kelly Brogan et al whose only motivation is her bank account.

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
Who the $&@& cares about autism!!!!!! Come on! That's only one aspect of vaccines. The flu vaccine DOESN'T work!!!!! Every idiot for and against vaccines wants to argue the safety of vaccination.... Ok fine go argue like mindless children.... Leave the science and efficacy of vaccines to those of us that understand basic immunology and physiology! The antibodies produced by the flu vaccine produce IgG where as the antibodies naturally produced by the actual wild virus stimulates IgA! IgA is what research has shown a actually prevents throat colonization of influenza! The point is most vaccines may not only be unsafe but actually offer little if any protection. Moreover because vaccine immunity is not the same as naturally acquired immunity out children are less able to fight off naturally acquired disease and all the over vaccinated female children now will be passing on VERY little natural antibodies on to their offspring!!! So then we will all be unable to fight off natural disease and all have to rely on vaccines..... Hence see where this is going????? It doesn't take a genius to see we are destroying our perfectly evolved and robust immune systems! But yeah vaccines certainly without a doubt couldn't POSSIBLY cause autism!!!!! Lol idiots some pro-vaccine people are.

I will have to say that I don't think you know as much as you believe you do.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Nobody gives the flu shot intranasally in most settings in the US genius! Hence my point!

Hopefully no-one anywhere gives the flu shot intranasally.
However, FluMist is used extensively in the US and other parts of the world which weakens your point quite a bit.

Ha! Flumist has been around for 10+ years and it's hardly used "extensively" in most US healthcare settings. Your little research article never mentioned how much IgA levels were raised.

Why do people like you so blindly believe in vaccines and vaccine science? Seriously, that's what I don't get. The history, science, efficacy, safety, etc is so tenuous at best but people like you act like Jesus himself exclaimed vaccines as the word of god! Lol every single other aspect of drugs, science, etc. many of which has more convincing historical and medical perspectives surrounding them yet you cling to vaccines like they are some sort of holy grail. I'm not against vaccines or vaccine science. I just don't think we should be jabbing our children and babies with umpteen million vaccines by the time they are teenagers. But people like you act like vaccines are a cure all for everything inflicting human beings. Lol

The fact that it's used at all weakens what you posted earlier (it's use has grown quite a bit since its release).

It's perfectly reasonable to question safety and efficacy of any drug or therapy but when people ignore the available data and effectively make up their own then I have to argue.

I'm also not a big fan of self-proclaimed experts on the field like Kelly Brogan et al whose only motivation is her bank account.

Oh please and people like Dr. Offit don't care about their bank account! Gimme a break ! I think what is so perplexing is the complete hypocrisy of people like you when it comes to vaccines. You're not the type that's interested in science or research or remaining objective,you just want to be right and make other people be wrong. And trust me there are some real idiots on the anti vaccination side as well. You are like Dems vs. republicans.

a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

lol, i dont know who is ignorant. Sanitation and nutrition alone would not get rid of the diseases. The vaccine was the termination of the soruce, sanitation and nutrition are just to maintain it, other wise it would come back.

Eating healthy and keeping clean is not gonna help if the disease is already existing in the community.

The drop in those disease(rubella, Polio, Smallpox) are coincidently link to discovery or universal immunization of vaccines... that must be coincidence then? people decided to be clean and eat healthy right at that moment?

originally posted by: Pardon?
...

It's perfectly reasonable to question safety and efficacy of any drug or therapy but when people ignore the available data and effectively make up their own then I have to argue.

I'm also not a big fan of self-proclaimed experts on the field like Kelly Brogan et al whose only motivation is her bank account.

How the hell is anyone making up their own research?... I have posted links to published research, I didn't make anything up... You are the one making claims that only you can dictate who can be counted as an expert.

AGAIN, I am waiting, show proof that YOU are an expert in the field and that YOU alone can tell whether specialists can be counted as experts or not...

You are the one discounting all the research that disproves your point, alongside some other people... So show PROOF... put up or shut up.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Pardon?

Only in your mind is chemotherapy the same as vaccinations.

Show me the research she's had published on vaccines or immunology.

And I'll ask you again, what qualifies her to be an expert on vaccines?
How has this expertise been quantified and verified?

I see, and you are right, I made a mistake in my description. Guess what, I can admit when I make a mistake, can you do the same?... I am guessing not, you are going to keep proclaiming that she can't be counted as an expert...

AGAIN, how about YOU show us prove of YOUR research being posted in medical journals?...

I am waiting...

Took you long enough.

Where have I mentioned that I'd researched on vaccines?
I don't proclaim myself to be an expert on vaccinations as if I did I would have the research to back my claims up.

I am on a few medical research papers, mainly in paediatric cardiology and a couple in cardiac rhythm management but if you think I'm going to publish my name on a forum like this I'm afraid I'll have to disappoint you.

originally posted by: Pardon?


I am on a few medical research papers, mainly in paediatric cardiology and a couple in cardiac rhythm management but if you think I'm going to publish my name on a forum like this I'm afraid I'll have to disappoint you.

Of course not. BTW, how does "cardiac rhythm management" make you an expert on vaccines?...

Put up or shut up...

originally posted by: luciddream
a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

lol, i dont know who is ignorant. Sanitation and nitrition alone would not get rid of diseases, the vaccine was the termination of the soruce, sanitationa and nutrition are just to maintain it that way.

Eating healthy and keep cleanis not gonna help if the disease is already existing in the community.

The drop in those disease are coincidently link to discovery or universal immunization of vaccines... must be coincidence then? people diecided to be clean and eat healthy right at that moment?

Lol termination of the source? Oh brother and what is this mystical source and where was it? You're hilarious! Did you see it in one of your lucid dreams. The whole point if vaccination is not to eradicate a disease. Can you eliminate every single pertussis bacteria from the face of the earth? Do you even think that's a good idea? Lol. On that note because of your utter ignorance on the subject I'm bowing out of this stupid argument .... Good luck !

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Pardon?

Only in your mind is chemotherapy the same as vaccinations.

Show me the research she's had published on vaccines or immunology.

And I'll ask you again, what qualifies her to be an expert on vaccines?
How has this expertise been quantified and verified?

I see, and you are right, I made a mistake in my description. Guess what, I can admit when I make a mistake, can you do the same?... I am guessing not, you are going to keep proclaiming that she can't be counted as an expert...

AGAIN, how about YOU show us prove of YOUR research being posted in medical journals?...

I am waiting...

Took you long enough.

Where have I mentioned that I'd researched on vaccines?
I don't proclaim myself to be an expert on vaccinations as if I did I would have the research to back my claims up.

I am on a few medical research papers, mainly in paediatric cardiology and a couple in cardiac rhythm management but if you think I'm going to publish my name on a forum like this I'm afraid I'll have to disappoint you.

Oh brother like that matters? I have a friend who has an MBA and works for Medtronic as a sales rep! Guess what he published an article in a medical journal as well. Lol and has no clue about anything vaccine, immunological, or physiologically related!

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Pardon?
...

It's perfectly reasonable to question safety and efficacy of any drug or therapy but when people ignore the available data and effectively make up their own then I have to argue.

I'm also not a big fan of self-proclaimed experts on the field like Kelly Brogan et al whose only motivation is her bank account.

How the hell is anyone making up their own research?... I have posted links to published research, I didn't make anything up... You are the one making claims that only you can dictate who can be counted as an expert.

AGAIN, I am waiting, show proof that YOU are an expert in the field and that YOU alone can tell whether specialists can be counted as experts or not...

You are the one discounting all the research that disproves your point, alongside some other people... So show PROOF... put up or shut up.

Andrew Wakefield made up his research.
So did the Geiers.
And Buttram.
And Tomlejovic
And quite a few others.

If the research you linked to proved your point (you're the one making the point so it's up to you to prove it and so far you haven't) I wouldn't be challenging it.

There's an easy way to tell if someone's an expert and it's not my opinion.
They need to have worked in that specific field at the very least but really they will have produced relevant research that is reproducible and robust.

Surely that's the very least expected of an expert in any discipline isn't it?

a reply to: Pardon?

So YOU claim... AGAIN..

How does "cardiac rhythm management" make YOU an expert on vaccines?...

originally posted by: Pardon?


< sigh >
And what does it have to do with vaccines?

Creatine is a chemical substance, ethylmercury is also a chemical substance. They are not the same, but she has done her research on how substances can cause toxicity. Have you "published" any research on ANY substance that can or cannot cause toxicity?...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Pardon?


I am on a few medical research papers, mainly in paediatric cardiology and a couple in cardiac rhythm management but if you think I'm going to publish my name on a forum like this I'm afraid I'll have to disappoint you.

Of course not. BTW, how does "cardiac rhythm management" make you an expert on vaccines?...

Put up or shut up...

Can you link to where I've said I'm an expert in vaccination?

I notice you didn't quote that part where I said I wasn't.
Disingenuous to the core aren't you?

The CRM part was when I was working in clinical research.
Surprisingly that's where I learned how to read and understand clinical research.

So, what's your expertise level since you are the one with the point to prove?

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Pardon?


< sigh >
And what does it have to do with vaccines?

Creatine is a chemical substance, ethylmercury is also a chemical substance. They are not the same, but she has done her research on how substances can cause toxicity. Have you made any research on ANY substance that can or cannot cause toxicity?...

It's got nothing to do whether or not I've produced any research at all as I'm not proclaiming to be an expert.

She is and has done absolutely nothing in the field she's criticising.

So, can you tell me why she's an expert or not.
Simple question.

originally posted by: Pardon?


Can you link to where I've said I'm an expert in vaccination?

I notice you didn't quote that part where I said I wasn't.
Disingenuous to the core aren't you?

The CRM part was when I was working in clinical research.
Surprisingly that's where I learned how to read and understand clinical research.

So, what's your expertise level since you are the one with the point to prove?

I am not the one proclaiming that doctors whose expertise can be verified "cannot be counted as experts" or that their published work doesn't count... It is you making that claim, hence the burden of proof lies on YOU to prove your point.

So far you have claimed to have expertise on "cardiac rhythm management", which according to your own logic in no way makes your CLAIMS valid...

a reply to: Pardon?

Lol AND SO DID MERCK!

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys

originally posted by: luciddream
a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

lol, i dont know who is ignorant. Sanitation and nitrition alone would not get rid of diseases, the vaccine was the termination of the soruce, sanitationa and nutrition are just to maintain it that way.

Eating healthy and keep cleanis not gonna help if the disease is already existing in the community.

The drop in those disease are coincidently link to discovery or universal immunization of vaccines... must be coincidence then? people diecided to be clean and eat healthy right at that moment?

Lol termination of the source? Oh brother and what is this mystical source and where was it? You're hilarious! Did you see it in one of your lucid dreams. The whole point if vaccination is not to eradicate a disease. Can you eliminate every single pertussis bacteria from the face of the earth? Do you even think that's a good idea? Lol. On that note because of your utter ignorance on the subject I'm bowing out of this stupid argument .... Good luck !

The point of vaccination is to prevent disease, the disease spreading and complications of those diseases.
If it can eradicate the disease then all well and good but limitation of the spread is generally the best that can be hoped for.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Pardon?


Can you link to where I've said I'm an expert in vaccination?

I notice you didn't quote that part where I said I wasn't.
Disingenuous to the core aren't you?

The CRM part was when I was working in clinical research.
Surprisingly that's where I learned how to read and understand clinical research.

So, what's your expertise level since you are the one with the point to prove?

I am not the one proclaiming that doctors whose expertise can be verified "cannot be counted as experts" or that their published work doesn't count... It is you making that claim, hence the burden of proof lies on YOU to prove your point.

So far you have claimed to have expertise on "cardiac rhythm management", which according to your own logic in no way makes your CLAIMS valid...

How can you verify their expertise when they have none specific to vaccines?
That's all I've asked you.
If they have it then show me. It should be really easy for you to do.

Other than on their own websites how have they been quantified as experts?

a reply to: Pardon?

The fact that you think vaccines can wipe out a disease causing bacteria or virus from the face of the earth proves my point. You really don't understand the science behind vaccination. Nor do you really see the bigger picture as you've claimed. Vaccines are supposed to create herd immunity NOT wipe out an entire strain of bacteria or virus. I mean really????? You'd have to rase every natural ecosystem, forest, etc to rid the world of disease. I suspect you are intelligent enough to understand how utterly stupid that is????

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
a reply to: Pardon?

The fact that you think vaccines can wipe out a disease causing bacteria or virus from the face of the earth proves my point. You really don't understand the science behind vaccination. Nor do you really see the bigger picture as you've claimed. Vaccines are supposed to create herd immunity NOT wipe out an entire strain of bacteria or virus. I mean really????? You'd have to rase every natural ecosystem, forest, etc to rid the world of disease. I suspect you are intelligent enough to understand how utterly stupid that is????

"The point of vaccination is to prevent disease, the disease spreading and complications of those diseases.
If it can eradicate the disease then all well and good but limitation of the spread is generally the best that can be hoped for."

I think you're confusing me with another poster.

originally posted by: Pardon?
...


She is and has done absolutely nothing in the field she's criticising.

So, can you tell me why she's an expert or not.
Simple question.

I don't know maybe because of the fact that she has done research and published work on medical journals on substances that can cause toxicity?

But since this discussion of Dr. K Brogan is getting nowhere perhaps you should tell us why your "claimed expertise in cardiac rhythm management" give your claims more validity than those of other researchers who have even more extensive expertise than Dr. Brogan such as Laszlo Magos M.D. who has at least 163 published papers in pubmed.gov.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...