Anti-terror laws rob Australians of freedoms ISIS hate, security expert says

Australian law makers are not as bought and paid for as some other countries. Perhaps not as gullible either. My understanding of these new anti terror laws is that much of the legislation has sunset clauses embedded within it.

So, extended powers given to the spy agencies will expire after a time period. Obviously, they could be reenacted, but that would be based on the circumstances prevailing at that time.

Fresh anti-terror raids in Melbourne today..
www.news.com.au...


Good.
About time the authorities started to crack down on these people.
Hopefully they start deporting them and taking every measure possible to prevent them from ever returning to Australia.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

But first, figure out who it is that really wants to do you harm. Here in the States, it wasn't a Middle East terror group that passed the Patriot Act.

Indeed. Last I checked it's not them who threaten our freedom, it is the ones passing those laws and their handlers. I'm certain the war on terror could easily be won by dropping a nuke on Washington DC when all the politicians are gathered there. Do the same with London and apparently Canberra and then go after the banksters and Bilderbergers that are left.

originally posted by: triune
Australian law makers are not as bought and paid for as some other countries. Perhaps not as gullible either. My understanding of these new anti terror laws is that much of the legislation has sunset clauses embedded within it.

So, extended powers given to the spy agencies will expire after a time period. Obviously, they could be reenacted, but that would be based on the circumstances prevailing at that time.

IIRC the patriot act had that too in order to look less bad. That doesn't mean squat if it keeps renewed again and again forever, which it probabaly will be.

originally posted by: Sirrurg
IIRC the patriot act had that too in order to look less bad. That doesn't mean squat if it keeps renewed again and again forever, which it probabaly will be.

Ah yes, it probably could, might, perhaps, maybe, who knows...therefore it's bad.


Hey I know, cops have guns. Maybe, perhaps, probably one could use his gun to do the wrong thing. Maybe we should ban cops from having guns?

Why have cops at all for that matter? They might be corrupt, they might do the wrong thing. Therefore we should abolish the police force, and just lock up the entire population in self contained units where we don't need to interact physically with others and cant get out. Therefore there will never be crime, ever, so police wouldn't be needed.


Right..?

Probably...

originally posted by: mortex
[...]

Why have cops at all for that matter? They might be corrupt, they might do the wrong thing. Therefore we should abolish the police force, and just lock up the entire population in self contained units where we don't need to interact physically with others and cant get out. Therefore there will never be crime, ever, so police wouldn't be needed.


Right..?

Probably...

That would certainly give you the security that you crave so much. Sure no freedom, but who cares.

Right..?

Obviously...

originally posted by: Sirrurg

originally posted by: mortex
[...]

Why have cops at all for that matter? They might be corrupt, they might do the wrong thing. Therefore we should abolish the police force, and just lock up the entire population in self contained units where we don't need to interact physically with others and cant get out. Therefore there will never be crime, ever, so police wouldn't be needed.


Right..?

Probably...

That would certainly give you the security that you crave so much. Sure no freedom, but who cares.

Right..?

Obviously...

Even with the new laws and powers for police, I'm still free.
I'm free to live my life as I see fit, as long as I don't break the law. That was also the case before these new laws and powers granted to police.

Why should I feel threatened by these new powers?

I'm a law abiding citizen. I have no intention of being otherwise. Certainly not so in any way shape or form which would attract police attention with their new powers granted to them by Canberra.


So again, why should I be worried?

Because someone might abuse their new powers one day?
And if they do, they will be held to account in a court of law. That's how Australia works.
Not even the police or politicians are above the law. There's been several corrupt police who've abused their power dragged through the courts and had their name/picture in the media, they are no longer police. There's also been and are several court cases and inquiries involving corruption in politics. Nothing is secret there either.


I'm not scared the police have more powers.
I'm blood glad. If it means they can do more to prevent what's happened overseas happening here. And that's exactly what it means.
These laws aren't targeted at ordinary citizens going about their daily lives. These laws, these powers, only come into play when you do something to get on the radar of police forces. That's what people like you don't understand so you take to Internet forums like ATS to fear monger and spread ignorance.


Your argument is ridiculous anyway. It's like saying hey I'm not going to murder or rape anyone, so why are there laws against that stuff? Since I'm not planning on doing those things, therefore the government must be trying to take away my freedoms.

Nonsense, utter and complete nonsense.

a reply to: mortex

Good on ya mate. Well said,

Beers and Cheers,

Kind Regards,

Bally

Having nothing to hide is a #ty excuse for giving up freedom.

We tell our soldiers that they are fighting to preserve our freedoms, and to show how much we appreciate their sacrifice, we slap them in the face, and strip away those freedoms they where told they fought for. I think it's shameful.

Here in America if you ask the question "What does it mean to be American" everyone will mention freedom. I'd imagine the same is true for Australia. If we continue to lose our freedoms, can we continue to call ourselves American?

We seem to forget that power always corrupts, and these spy programs are a massive power. The corruption of these programs is inevitable. It's only a matter of time.

Also, can anyone tell me the last time an over bearing government and loss of freedoms didn't lead to domestic disputes? Historically these qualities have always boiled over and lead to in fighting. Men who have known freedom their entire life will eventually feel the need to take it back, and when their government doesn't willingly give it, there will most likely be violence. At that point the safety you wished for, will be compromised. If you want stability and safety, then removing freedom from a free society is the wrong way to get it.

Stuff like this will only lead to abuse. In going overboard like this they will be able to target pretty much anyone they want to.

' If you haven't done anything wrong , you have nothing to worry about '




There's one in every crowd who will NEVER GET IT !

In America we 'had' the Bill of Rights which is being eviscerated under the guise
of fighting terrorism. But, most certainly the Australian government would never
abuse their power. How many guns were confiscated. Do I detect a pattern ?
" I haven't done anything wrong, I have nothing to worry about " : )
DHS states returning combat Vets are considered people of interest who may be prone
toward acts of Domestic Terrorism. " I haven't done anything wrong,... BLAH BLAH BLAH !
TSA -We haven't done anything wrong, why are you groping my six year old daughter !?
Nothing to be concerned about just chasing terrorists. Yeah right !

We aren't giving up our freedom though.

This new powers, these laws, they aren't aimed at people who aren't breaking the law.


What the heck don't you people understand?
It's the most simplistic concept.

Laws exist, police have powers to enforce those laws, against individuals or groups who break those laws.


The law doesn't say I can't go for a run or take my dog for a walk.
The law doesn't say I can't work.
The law doesn't say women can't drive or work or get an education.
The law doesn't say homosexuals should be stoned to death or hung.
The law doesn't say women can't leave their homes without a male relative and unless they are covered entirely from head to toe.
The law doesn't say I can't get in my car with a bunch of mates and drive around Australia seeing all the sites.


There is no law which prevents me, or any other Australian, from living our lives.
The new powers granted to police, will not affect how we live our lives either.
Everything I did previously to these new police powers, I can still do today and into the future.
These new powers do not restrict my way of life in any way. Why would they? They aren't aimed at ordinary Aussies like me. Do you understand this? because it's very simple and it's an important fact that you scaremongers like to ignore.


Do you want to know why we wont be affected? BECAUSE WE ARE LAW ABIDING CITIZENS.

It's not about having nothing to hide. It's about the fact we aren't doing anything wrong, and that these laws aren't aimed at people who aren't doing anything wrong.

They are targeted at specific things. None of those things are things that ordinary Australians do or take part in or hold beliefs in.

Hence our freedom is intact.

Stop exaggerating and scare mongering.
Your own country America might up sh** creek, but Australia is not America.

a reply to: mortex
ASIO now has the go ahead to kill all whistle blowers as well as terrorists, so animal activists or environmentalists are now considered the enemy too?
It is all the more disturbing because the terrorist threat facing Australia is so negligible.

Official statistics immediately show that terrorism is not a threat to ordinary Australians walking the streets unharmed or sleeping safe in their beds at night. There have been 113 Australians killed by terrorism since 1978. All of them have been killed abroad, not on the streets or in their beds.

Aside from the murder of Australian Ross Langdon in the Westgate shopping centre attack in Nairobi in 2013, the most dangerous place for Australians in terms of terrorism has been Indonesia. Two Australians were killed in the Jakarta bombing in 2009, four in the Bali attack of 2005, and 88 in the notorious Kuta bombings of 12 October 2002. There has been no domestic terrorism incident on our home soil since the Hilton bombing in 1978 (although the murder of a security guard outside a Melbourne abortion clinic in 2001 is sometimes defined in this way).

Compared to the avoidable deaths caused by tobacco smoking, by alcohol abuse, by homicide and domestic violence, or by natural disasters, terrorism barely rates a mention. It’s worth reading the full details of the National Security Legislation Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2014, just to taste the flavour of this new authoritarianism.
www.aph.gov.au...

originally posted by: CatSavage
a reply to: mortex
ASIO now has the go ahead to kill all whistle blowers as well as terrorists, so animal activists or environmentalists are now considered the enemy too?
It is all the more disturbing because the terrorist threat facing Australia is so negligible.

Official statistics immediately show that terrorism is not a threat to ordinary Australians walking the streets unharmed or sleeping safe in their beds at night. There have been 113 Australians killed by terrorism since 1978. All of them have been killed abroad, not on the streets or in their beds.

Aside from the murder of Australian Ross Langdon in the Westgate shopping centre attack in Nairobi in 2013, the most dangerous place for Australians in terms of terrorism has been Indonesia. Two Australians were killed in the Jakarta bombing in 2009, four in the Bali attack of 2005, and 88 in the notorious Kuta bombings of 12 October 2002. There has been no domestic terrorism incident on our home soil since the Hilton bombing in 1978 (although the murder of a security guard outside a Melbourne abortion clinic in 2001 is sometimes defined in this way).

Compared to the avoidable deaths caused by tobacco smoking, by alcohol abuse, by homicide and domestic violence, or by natural disasters, terrorism barely rates a mention. It’s worth reading the full details of the National Security Legislation Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2014, just to taste the flavour of this new authoritarianism.
www.aph.gov.au...

None have been killed by islamic extremists here in Australia, because the other week authorities took action to prevent that from happening.
In previous years, since 2001, several other plots have also been foiled, from attacks on the AFL Grand Final in Melbourne to an attack against the Lucas Heights nuclear reactor in Sydney. Or how about the plot to attack the Holsworthy Barracks in Sydney?


Here is the summary of the ammended legislation from your link...

Responds to the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security
Report of the Inquiry into Potential Reforms of Australia’s National Security Legislation
by amending: the
Australian Security Intelligence Organisation Act 1979
to: align the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation’s (ASIO) employment conditions with the Australian Public Service employment framework; modernise ASIO’s warrant-based intelligence collection powers; establish a framework for the conduct of authorised covert intelligence operations; clarify ASIO’s ability to cooperate with the private sector; and provide for certain breaches to be referred to law enforcement agencies for investigation; the
Intelligence Services Act 2001
to: enable the Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS) to collect intelligence on Australian persons involved in activities in relation to its operational security; enable ASIS to cooperate with ASIO without ministerial authorisation when undertaking certain intelligence collection activities; enable ASIS to train certain individuals in the use of weapons and self-defence techniques and provide for a limited exception of these in a controlled environment; extend immunity for actions taken in relation to overseas activities; clarify the authority of the Defence Imagery and Geospatial Organisation (DIGO) to provide assistance; and rename DIGO as the Australian Geospatial Intelligence Organisation and the Defence Signals Directorate as the Australian Signals Directorate; the
Australian Security Intelligence Organisation Act 1979
and
Intelligence Services Act 2001
to create two new offences and update existing offences, and increase penalties, in relation to the protection of intelligence-related information; and 19 Acts to make consequential and technical amendments.

First of all, what do whistle blowers have anything to do with terrorism?
Why not include the Port Arthur massacre, aliens, the extinction of the Tassie devil, and nuclear testing at Maralinga while you're at it mate.


Someone, anyone, please point out where it says ASIO now has the "go ahead" to kill whistle blowers.
And don't point out the fact that they are now able to train individuals in the use of weapons and self defence for limited use and scope in a controlled environment. Because that is not saying that they have the green light to go around killing people.

The amendments to the legislation are basically about making it easier for ASIO and ASIS, and working in co-operation with other law enforcement, to be able to gather intelligence and do their jobs more efficiently with less red tape and bureaucracy.


Here's the first clue that you are talking crap...if it were true, that ASIO would be given the green light to kill people willy-nilly, then the first people to start bitching and moaning about it wouldn't be people like you on ATS, it would be the Australian Greens party who bitch and moan about everything.

But yes, keep believing whatever you've thought up is true because you've convinced your self it is..because you know, we have such a huge problem with whistle blowers in this country, that all of a sudden the government is using terrorism as a cover to bring in laws that allow our security agencies to knock them off.

It amazes me how the minds of wannabe conspiracy theorists work, or don't work.
On the one hand governments are all evil and always working in the shadows to control everything, breaking laws, constitutions, etc etc.
Then on the other hand they are sneaky and bringing in laws with secret clauses that allow them to kill anyone they want whenever they want, legally.

Think about it..why would a government need to bring in such laws and powers, if it were already doing what it wanted behind the scenes in the shadows?

How did I come to that conclusion? I used common sense and a logical thought process.

originally posted by: CatSavage

Aside from the murder of Australian Ross Langdon in the Westgate shopping centre attack in Nairobi in 2013, the most dangerous place for Australians in terms of terrorism has been Indonesia. Two Australians were killed in the Jakarta bombing in 2009, four in the Bali attack of 2005, and 88 in the notorious Kuta bombings of 12 October 2002. There has been no domestic terrorism incident on our home soil since the Hilton bombing in 1978 (although the murder of a security guard outside a Melbourne abortion clinic in 2001 is sometimes defined in this way).

No terrorist incidents since the 78 bombing of the Sydney Hilton? You've got to be trying to troll or something...

in 1980 the Turkish Consul General in Sydney was assassinated, in 82 the Israeli consulate and Hakoah Club in Sydney were bombed, in 86 the Russel Street Police Station in Melbourne was bombed, and again in 86 the Turkish consulate in Melbourne was bombed, in 1994 a federal officer was killed in a bombing at National Crime Authority in Adelaide, and in 1995 the French consulate in Perth was firebombed. And although not technically a terrorist attack, the Greek consulate in Sydney was stormed and occupied by Kurdish supporters of the PKK to protest against the capture of their leader. The PKK, a terrorist organization.


Nice selective memory though.

a reply to: mortex
It was jail whistle blowers not kill my mistake there www.canberratimes.com.au... blowers-20140923-10kzjz.html

originally posted by: CatSavage

a reply to: mortex
It was jail whistle blowers not kill my mistake there www.canberratimes.com.au... blowers-20140923-10kzjz.html

Cool, but still, there's nothing that says anything about whistle blowers in that summary.
It seems to be all about removing unnecessary layers of bureaucracy that at times impede or hamper or slow investigations and operations.

a reply to: mortex
more people die from drowning, than from terrorism in Australia its all just to take away more of our freedoms. When an animal activist can be jailed for speaking out about the RSPCA say, well that affects us all

a reply to: mortex
Also only one link posted in the first comment, this was where the info came from newmatilda.com...

originally posted by: CatSavage

a reply to: mortex
more people die from drowning, than from terrorism in Australia its all just to take away more of our freedoms. When an animal activist can be jailed for speaking out about the RSPCA say, well that affects us all

Ben Eltham is just your typical yuppy leftist in Australia these days.


Where's the evidence, the proof, that animal rights activists, or whistle blowes, will be jailed for speaking out?

Regrettably, for some time to come, Australians will have to endure more security than we are used to and more inconvenience than we would like. Regrettably, for some time to come, the delicate balance between freedom and security may have to shift.

Tony Abbott said that in parliament.
What that means is that when we go to airports, we could see increased security and because of the increased security and screening measures in place, we will face delays.
Same goes for major events the public attend.

What's so sinister about that?
It sounds like what a government should be doing when there is a threat to the publics safety from people who are within that public space.

There may be more restrictions on some so that there can be more protection for others. After all, the most basic freedom of all is the freedom to walk the streets unharmed and to sleep safe in our beds at night.

The other bit that he quotes on that link.
What this sounds like, is exactly what I've been saying. These laws and new powers aren't aimed or directed at ordinary Australian citizens, but at the extremists who are unfortunately within our society.

As recently as 2009, 119 Victorians died in the Kilmore East bushfire that raged on Black Saturday. That fire was started by a fault in a power line, which has now been legally attributed to electricity company SP Ausnet and its maintenance contractor Utility Asset Management.

And yet we don’t hear speeches in Parliament about the “death cult” of electricity distributors. Indeed, the Victorian government is still refusing to implement the Black Saturday Royal Commission recommendations to reduce the risk of severe bushfires, such as placing electricity lines underground.

This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read and it's made me pretty angry.
I'm angry because this leftist trash is using a tragic event to compare to the threat of terrorism.
The power company responsible for maintaining the electricity infrastructure in Victoria did not set out to willfully and purposefully kill Australians.

That's a pretty big difference between the bushfire disaster, and purposeful acts of terrorism where the intent is to kill innocent people.

Typical left wing rubbish.

He writes off the threat as being insignificant. Yet I highlighted some known plots to commit acts of terror in Australia that were foiled by authorities. And more recently things are getting worse.

The main focus now seems to be lone wolfs and financiers.
If there are people out there financing terror activities abroad, if there are people who are financing and organizing travel of people willing to take part in terror groups abroad, what's to stop these people from financing and organizing the same things here at home?

The only thing standing in their way is our state and federal police forces and intelligence services.

What do you think you will be able to do to stop them? Offer the extremists a beer, a snag and suggest to watch the footy on tv?