Black Triangle UFOs and an Alleged Breakaway Civilization- Discuss

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: Jenisiz

Yeah... but the main (many more I know) problem is all that was before his switch to the "truth." He basically said all the previous posts were a mix ... that last one and the two 'supporting' threads should be the only ones used to come to definitive decisions.

And I must say, the guy wove a very good, detailed scenario and kept in character throughout those last few weeks... IF false.

IF true... then we'll all know in a few years I guess. But that doesn't keep us from digging around.

That's the problem though. His credibility is questionable at THE VERY MOST. You CANNOT expect to be taken seriously after only a few weeks of changing your attitude and beliefs when you've accumulated years of contradictory posts. I know I can't be the only one that joined this forum on honest grounds. I am who I am and am very proud of it. I came to this forum in pursuit of truth and have found quite the opposite. There are members here I believe are honest but the amount of misleading individuals I've encountered is staggering. I love how credibility is assessed lately simply by join date and number of posts. Never mind this is an Internet forum where anyone can become a professional in a matter of seconds between replying by means of a quick Google search. In fact, to me, a vast number of individuals seem to portray Personality Disorders made apparent and strengthened by Classic Utilitarianism. The ends don't necessarily justify the means. You can't lie about facts in order to pass off your theory to others as truth...period.

In the end he claimed to be in the know for several years...but his statements in the final months switched. It's a massive indication he came to an epiphany of his own creation and fabricated an elaborate story to solidify it with no proof save for his credibility he acquired through Google searching. As an ex BX Therapist I watched this unfold all the time on my couches. People would fabricate elaborate stories while only a fraction of it was true in an attempt to solidify a personal belief being pushed onto others. Perfect example is racism. I knew from the second he spilled the 75% bs what was going on and a few quick reads of his previous posts confirmed it. It's printed in black and white in the DSM. PM'S were used as a discreet means of fire control and recruitment. We see this when relationships end and the exs reach out to individual friends of their ex partner as a means to gain favor and attempt to sway the belief their side of events was the only honest and accurate while the other was wrong. I'm still lost as to why we can't speak about the original op but still can talk about his thread and story. Isn't the purpose of ATS to find truth? The entire premise of the story is rooted in his credibility after all since no other shred of evidence was provided.

Carl Sagan said it best - "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." I stand by this. Valle backs up his beliefs with years of research. Valle came to this forum to provide his opinions. Doesn't anyone else find it hysterical that Valle himself doesn't once claim to have a solid answer even though he's been involved for years and provided proof as this original thread relies on credibility alone. Credibility that pales considerably from Valle. A story being pitched as 100% true with zero evidence that contradicts a scientist's opinions that are supported by decades of research?

There is no breakaway civilization. These black triangles do exist. They are not alien and we do not require sleeping people to compile star maps. We do not make clones for instant communication and somehow keep the original alive by seeing into the future and rescuing them before tragedy strikes. I worked as a contract for the government through Applied Materials for years during and after college. We had the technology to accurately plot star maps for years. Hell my astrophysics final was plotting the correct escape velocity and trajectory of an object leaving Earth for several destinations in our solar system. 3 planets and 2 moons. We weren't allowed to use calcs and did it old school nasa style with a pencil and paper. His star map theory for jumps couldn't be further from the truth as we pretty much can do it by hand now.

a reply to: Bybyots

You believe in Daemons but give me a hard time about plasma
lifeforms ?

Daemons being a fully neutral term from that time period.. heck
even a "MUSE" (creative hunch) was defined as a 'daemon'.

For all intents and purposes the terms are functionally equivalent.

Of course you'd have to have studied what 'plasma' actually means
when it interacts with a human nervous system.. and it has NOTHING
to do with a big glowing ball of light/energy.

Kev

originally posted by: Baddogma
And here's something (Besides check out Lostgirl's link!!!) and that is IF plasma can be sentient... what's the biggest ball of plasma in our locale we see every day (if not raining)?

Maybe the Druids and sun worshipers were sorta right?

You know that "sun worship" is one of the most ancient religious practices.
It's also a big part of various tainted spiritual systems, many of which are
practiced to this day; and also part of contactee cults.

But from my perspective anyway, plasmas that co-evolve inside a matrix
(biological lifeform) might tend towards real 'sentience' rather than just
'dumb plasmas'.

If you've studied the proposed beginnings of life on earth, a lot of them
discuss self-replicating RNA's getting their start inside of minerals around
sub-oceanic vents. Using this analogy, it SEEMS that 'life' needs some sort
of solid matrix to get a start..... which would make sense to me..

and would explain why 'little baby plasmas' might need to co-evolve
inside a 'host body', and that perhaps the sun, despite all the enormous
amount of plasma might never evolve 'intelligence'.

Hell, I don't think the sun is sentient.. now that's a scary thought..

Anyway.. just thinking out loud.

Kev

a reply to: Jenisiz

Uhhmm...while I agree with most of what you've written here (especially about Jacque Vallee - I think I may be his #1 fangirl, if he has any fangirls - and if I were a 'girl' rather than a 50 year old housewife), I could be wrong....but I'm pretty sure --

-- that "Vallee" never "came to this forum"...

...I don't think he has personally visited ATS - much as we would like him to.

a reply to: Jenisiz

That take is FAR easier to swallow, I'll agree wholeheartedly.

Black ops craft constructed as #Snippy# and others proposed in the aviation thread... black ops use of the high tech through the last several decades to explain the oodles of good reports re: UFOs that exist... all fits and supported to a certain extent, with aliens used as a cover story...

but the dreaming stuff and consciousness altering through EM fields is also possible and being developed as we type in the real world, though more of a hurdle... and then there's the really whacky...

other humans and other homeworld stuff, 160,000 yr-old AI from previous high tech human civ here, invisible scientists and craft hovering over metro areas and meddling in our lives, twins as instant phones, seeing the edge of the universe, forever men helping to reassemble photons scattered across the cosmos to reconstruct pictures from the past, etc, etc....

all really hard to swallow and goes against much of consensus scientific reality.

But darnit, it isn't impossible... just very highly improbable... but I can easily agree and do so in most minutes of the day.

(faintly muttering as he scurries away) But it isn't impossible...

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: ATODASO

I'd have to agree and have said it before ...oh a gazillion or so times... that plasma balls and certain airborne machines could be two entirely different things.

To confuse the issue, though, (or offer a synopsis for others who haven't read GUTs threads or others of it's ilk) maybe they are related in that the tech the black triangles use is based upon these (possibly sentient or not) plasma piles, or some of the UFO's that present as balls of light.

Another bit of confusion is #Snippy's# fondness for calling the ships "alive" and people conflating the neural networked, self repairing skin and morphing, flap-less wings he was likely referring to with the (possibly sentient in some cases) plasma tech black ops and white scientists might be working on ...in Darpa, sub-level 8.

#Snippy# also mentioned AI in regards to the triangles so he may have meant 'alive' in that way, too.

I must admit that when I appeared (maybe I was being affected by high weirdness/em fields to my brain)
to be communicating with the 'triangle UFO' (which I've done exactly once in my life),

it appeared to be a non-human machine-like intelligence.. but fairly friendly actually.. I did not expect that
at all...

It casually remarked that it was being forced to fly in a retrograde flight path, and also let me know
that the height it was flying corresponded to a specific boundary layer where the atmosphere was
thin, but still present, and also something about how it had to be precisely aligned with something
that looked like a magnetic field line arcing around the Earth.

It felt like i was talking to a 5 years old on the street who was explaining to me that he had a lolly his
mommy had given him, and that he had to walk to the store to meet his mommy, taking care not to
talk to strangers.

So.. no cosmic insights.. no revelations about this whole mystery.

The reason I mention this, is I don't want to hold anything back, even though it makes me look
silly.. and I don't know how much longer I'll be posting in this thread.

AND.. this is why I'm quite comfortable with the notion of hybrid technology including some sort
of Plasma Intelligence.

Of course I'm totally fine with the notion of all manner of black project aircraft that have NOTHING
to do with any of this 'stuff'. But those subjects don't interest me; that's why I don't tend to talk
about them..

Also to dispel a related mythology.. I don't claim to be particularly 'psychic'. I don't have any little
plasma entity buddies in my body right now.. and it's those little guys who are(apparently) the
conduits to whatever 'real' 'psychic abilities' may or may not actually exist... as far as I know
anyway.. I'm not god's gift to all the mysterious of the universe - far from it.

Kev

originally posted by: lostgirl
a reply to: Jenisiz

Uhhmm...while I agree with most of what you've written here (especially about Jacque Vallee - I think I may be his #1 fangirl, if he has any fangirls - and if I were a 'girl' rather than a 50 year old housewife), I could be wrong....but I'm pretty sure --

-- that "Vallee" never "came to this forum"...

...I don't think he has personally visited ATS - much as we would like him to.

I'm pretty sure he has in the past...could've been another forum but I have discussed with him his books and findings before. None the less he never outright claims to know all... his thread here started by gut I believe was nice too.

Baddogma - We are what we eat buddy and sadly you have to choose what "truths" you're willing to swallow. I personally find those rooted and supported in fact most palatable. Doesn't mean I know 100% what is truth, only what I believe is. And from an astrophysics standpoint (not even taking into account my psychology background), the methodology he claims they use is waaay over the top and overkill. Exaggeration is a great indication of falsification

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

A sentient sun would be a sobering thought... and all those unexplained mass extinctions might be because some amoeba forgot to offer up a virgin (heh, forgetting how asexual reproduction could produce virgins for a moment) sacrifice on the correct day and ol' Sol lashed out with a CME... heh.

Although our sense of scale depends on both chemical reactions and gravity... and if some being could think and exist independent of physical structure as we know it (and I'm fairly certain I've encountered such beasts before) then our sense of scale could be quite provincial and beings as large as suns ...or larger... could exist.

Just thinking, badly, out loud as well....

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

A sentient sun would be a sobering thought... and all those unexplained mass extinctions might be because some amoeba forgot to offer up a virgin (heh, forgetting how asexual reproduction could produce virgins for a moment) sacrifice on the correct day and ol' Sol lashed out with a CME... heh.

Although our sense of scale depends on both chemical reactions and gravity... and if some being could think and exist independent of physical structure as we know it (and I'm fairly certain I've encountered such beasts before) then our sense of scale could be quite provincial and beings as large as suns ...or larger... could exist.

Just thinking, badly, out loud as well....

Oh --- I just loved the last scenes in the movie "Men in Black"

So I'm totally on-board with the fact we might just be little 'sentient plasmas'
ourselves, or our sun is, or our galaxy or universe --- inside a gem on the collar of a cat.

Truly we can't know *anything* for certain; so I try to keep a VERY open mind.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

For all intents and purposes the terms are functionally equivalent.

Nah, they're not. Daemons have to do with an experience that is exclusively human. Plasma life forms, are, I guess whatever Dr. Jay Alfred says they are.

My main thing is keeping it human. as you know that I believe that this is a closed system.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

That is rather fascinating... regarding the conversation with the "ship." It's also something I've heard before from other folks I've questioned regarding this stuff... it also appears in a few accounts in MUFON reports, books, etc. if my memory is working.. though specifics allude me.

A structured craft with an em field that affects consciousness and psi communication and an attached AI would fit as well as a childlike plasma intelligence... no?

a reply to: Jenisiz

Exactly the story it is what it is and pretty much does nothing for me especially with pm's to put icing on the cake.

Like I said before, the triangles that seem to defy typical winged aeronautics is the only thing there. Those seem to be very real, goes back to the basics.

What is the mission? Location? Some sort of active camo? Are we talking constant operation here/constant on going mission in the states? or just little flaps of night sightings like any black project of the past? There have been other craft that no one has seen that don't appear to be as sexy as this thing but they are letting folks see it when they apparently don't have to do that at all.

Do they have to fly so low or can they operate at 50k at which point you wouldn't notice them which seems to be the point.


I recently fielded the following question to several folks face to face.

If you seen a strange light doing odd movement like a typical ufo what do you think it was? They all said oh thats just the military. k

If you seen a huge low flying super slow black triangle what do you think it was? They all said oh hell that we were being invaded.


The triangles mission is what I am most interested in who cares how they move. What are they for and why are they doing it here if they are the end all to be all lets go win the war and be done with it if thats case.

originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

For all intents and purposes the terms are functionally equivalent.

Nah, they're not. Daemons have to do with an experience that is exclusively human. Plasma life forms, are, I guess whatever Dr. Jay Alfred says they are.

My main thing is keeping it human. as you know that I believe that this is a closed system.

I 100% disagree with your opinion, but that's ok.. the world is big
enough for lots of opinions.

My analysis says that in excess of 90% of what he says is wrong,
so i don't peruse his material since i first read all of it.

What I speak about is purely from personal experience since
I was 4 years old, with a lot of reading on all imaginable subjects.

From what I know of standard physics.. there is no such thing as a truly
closed system, not even necessarily the universe.

I really have no interest in quibbling however.. I'm not trying to convince
anyone of anything. Just sharing information and experience and hopefully
learning from others and also 'rolling my eyes' at certain quirky
characters

Kev

a reply to: usafage

Agreed, while it's nice to know the physics...I'd rather know the the reasons. Ultimately though, the physics and science behind it are often the rope used to hang the "whistle blower".

nm

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

That is rather fascinating... regarding the conversation with the "ship." It's also something I've heard before from other folks I've questioned regarding this stuff... it also appears in a few accounts in MUFON reports, books, etc. if my memory is working.. though specifics allude me.

A structured craft with an em field that affects consciousness and psi communication and an attached AI would fit as well as a childlike plasma intelligence... no?

Indeed.

I have met many 'plasma entitties' in my life, and in fact it's my observation
that at least 10% of all humans have one in their body.. most are totally
benign unless the human involved gets all 'religious' or 'spiritual' then in
that case the little fellers get driven insane and becomes little monsters.

So I'm pretty familiar with the little fellers and that 'ship' felt like it might
be one of them.. but it felt 'mechanical' --- really hard to explain it..
it felt different than a 'wild one'... so truly.. I cannot say if it was just a
"telepathic AI", a hybrid tech/little feller design, or a pure & massive
'plasma entity'.

I don't know.

If I had to guess, I'd say that it was a 'cultured entity', a reverse engineered
one... that had technology wrapped around it.. but who knows?

Now if this is true.. why on Earth would such a design be in place?

Perhaps the little guys are truly a bit 'trans-dimensional' and it's this
link that the 'ship' needs to accomplish it's objectives.

I mean, the US Navy has some trained dolphins who help underwater seal
teams I think. Human cells (every one) has a captured bacteria inside
(the mitochondria). Humans used to use cat intestines to do stitches.
BT Corn has a herbicide engineered into it..

I'm just saying that there is no reason why some sort of cultured lifeform
couldn't provide some necessary element in either a 'ship' or even another
type of lifeform.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

it's interesting you suggest this about not believing in a closed system. I've had similar thoughts. Laws of Probability dictate that everything occurring around us can be compartmentalised and predicted however with the interference of human interaction we find reality is not so foreseeable and rational.

originally posted by: tetra50
whistleblowers are being discounted and hung right here right now. Is this site and thread pretending to be a friend to them? It's become really obvious that's not the case, so I'm calling it right now so anyone thinking of blowing whistles knows they'll be vetted, and possibly discounted hereabouts, not necessarily welcomed.

I have seen zero evidence of a whistle-blower in this thread or the ones this
thread was based upon. But maybe i'm just dense.

Now, if you are saying that people on ATS in many cases tend to be extremely rude
and to form cliques that then 'combat each other' like little out of control, self-
destructive primates -- and that this atmosphere might not be conducive to a
'real' 'whistle-blower'; why that point of view might have some merit to it. But people
are people.. here on ATS and all around the world.

Kev

originally posted by: tetra50
nm

We're not attacking whistle blowers. There's a massive difference between having an experience and knowing what's really going on. Take for example...there are dozens of these black triangle threads...All contradicting the other and all claiming to be the ones we should trust...like this one, completely conflicting with the one in the op yet another "whistle blower" contradicting all those before it.

It upsets several members who are here for answers. These threads continue to pop up and instead of being investigated, we're supposed to accept them as truth? Even when the conflict with other stories on the same subject?

I'm just not the only one that feels like my intelligence is being attacked for not accepting someone's "proof" with zero available evidence. You say we attack...we simply are just trying to understand why?

originally posted by: Jenisiz
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

it's interesting you suggest this about not believing in a closed system. I've had similar thoughts. Laws of Probability dictate that everything occurring around us can be compartmentalised and predicted however with the interference of human interaction we find reality is not so foreseeable and rational.

I'm occasionally still a practicing shaman.. my mind HAS to be very open.
But that aside.. I was a fully certified engine room supervisor of a nuclear
war ship.. and I have read a TON of theoretical physics... and we are on
the brink of learning whether this universe is a hologram.. the nature
of dark matter and energy or a different standard model.. and quantum
mechanics will be breaking wide open very soon --- heck 'retro-causality'
(the future interfering with the past) has been demonstrated in the lab.

All this 'order' we think we see is just another layer of less turbulent
chaos in a vast, endless, ocean of superconducting, many-universe
M-theory substrate or whatever the heck it is. The 'truth' about
reality, is, as far as I know, and like science is starting to uncover
some really bizarre stuff!

But we are homicidal, world-destroying, chimpanzees (aka Jarod Diamond)
with bloated delusions of grandeur and an infinite capacity to lie and
delude ourselves, who are all going to die.

That is also true.

It's crazy being a human on this planet.. posting on ATS..
*eye roll*

Kev