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By Grace Alone

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posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 08:23 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: tetra50

Yes we have our free will. But then there's hell, ehich is essentially god saying, "do what you want, but if you do these things and dont do these other things, you're screwed. Have fun!" That's called passive aggressive.


Ummm. so God is passive aggressive?

well, I think, truly, millions of DSM diagnosed passively agressive people will thank you today, and well they should.
tetra




posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 08:30 PM
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a reply to: Nechash
And you, Necash, have given me so much hope today….




I agree, we are the source of creativity, although I wouldn't call myself a god. I am not as proactive with my talents as I'd like to be, but I'm striving to change that with each and every passing day.

I'm just happy to be here. Things could be so much worse in any given moment and every moment of peace we have is truly a blessing.



Bolded emphasis, mine. But your thoughts, all yours. This is why I am here, hopefully, and it will not be a trap to ensnare us, but a true and real starting point.

As to the rest, we don't need to aspire, I don't think, to be God, but to be what you assayed in your other thread between you and I, only: to be virtuous, to be the best you can be. As I will try to be,also. Perhaps we can make a pact out of that, and that will be the "new creation….."
Much love to you,
tetra



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 08:42 PM
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a reply to: tetra50

This idea is what is missing in the world today.
Let me boil it down to a basic idea: BE GOOD. IF YOU CAN'T BE GOOD BE AWARE THAT WHAT YOU DO WILL BE JUDGED ...not by god, not by anyone related to god, but by your peers. Your peers are, after all, those best to judge you.

The world sees what you do. Do well.



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 09:01 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: tetra50

Yes we have our free will. But then there's hell, ehich is essentially god saying, "do what you want, but if you do these things and dont do these other things, you're screwed. Have fun!" That's called passive aggressive.


Not only is it passive aggression, the religious concept of free will doesn't explain how an all-knowing and all-powerful deity who created everything could create beings whose future behavior he wouldn't know in advance and didn't design to do exactly as he wished. Either an all-knowing, all-powerful deity who created everything is a ludicrous concept or free will is a ludicrous concept.



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 09:07 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: tetra50

Yes we have our free will. But then there's hell, ehich is essentially god saying, "do what you want, but if you do these things and dont do these other things, you're screwed. Have fun!" That's called passive aggressive.


Not only is it passive aggression, the religious concept of free will doesn't explain how an all-knowing and all-powerful deity who created everything could create beings whose future behavior he wouldn't know in advance and didn't design to do exactly as he wished. Either an all-knowing, all-powerful deity who created everything is a ludicrous concept or free will is a ludicrous concept.

Oh, I think there are some other logical options available.
Such as, the whole thing was hijacked long ago, just so you could say that now.
Time may be a circular thing, here…..if it is, and I'll be happy to show you another thread of mine on that very concept, then, it's all up for grabs, and nothing you say holds any more water than the Bible, for instance.

But hey, what if the Bible isn't what we think it is, either. What if there were something wholly different, kept from everyone, because we were being tested? Just a thought. I'd hardly know. I'm a primary sinner, I must say, as the definitions now exist. LOL
Thanks for your reply and consideration



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 09:12 PM
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originally posted by: Jonjonj
a reply to: tetra50

This idea is what is missing in the world today.
Let me boil it down to a basic idea: BE GOOD. IF YOU CAN'T BE GOOD BE AWARE THAT WHAT YOU DO WILL BE JUDGED ...not by god, not by anyone related to god, but by your peers. Your peers are, after all, those best to judge you.

The world sees what you do. Do well.



See Jonjon, I'm not so sure….as to this, anyway….my whole point here, is, who is to judge, really, hereabouts?
I mean to do good, on the whole. Surely many of us do. But I'm not willing to look at your life and judge, or anyone else I know. All of our supposed knowledge here, I think, is somewhat limited, to see what we will do with that. For my part, I see that, and so, refuse to judge. That's the best I can do.
But I agree we should do well, regardless of who or if anyone is watching. Because see, you are.
You are watching.
You sleep with yourself or not at night.
And when you draw your last breath, YOU will KNOW what you've done, not done and lied about.
That's enough, right there, for me.
regards,
tetra



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 09:21 PM
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originally posted by: tetra50

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: tetra50

Yes we have our free will. But then there's hell, ehich is essentially god saying, "do what you want, but if you do these things and dont do these other things, you're screwed. Have fun!" That's called passive aggressive.


Not only is it passive aggression, the religious concept of free will doesn't explain how an all-knowing and all-powerful deity who created everything could create beings whose future behavior he wouldn't know in advance and didn't design to do exactly as he wished. Either an all-knowing, all-powerful deity who created everything is a ludicrous concept or free will is a ludicrous concept.

Oh, I think there are some other logical options available.
Such as, the whole thing was hijacked long ago, just so you could say that now.
Time may be a circular thing, here…..if it is, and I'll be happy to show you another thread of mine on that very concept, then, it's all up for grabs, and nothing you say holds any more water than the Bible, for instance.

But hey, what if the Bible isn't what we think it is, either. What if there were something wholly different, kept from everyone, because we were being tested? Just a thought. I'd hardly know. I'm a primary sinner, I must say, as the definitions now exist. LOL
Thanks for your reply and consideration


I assumed that the thread title referred to Christian beliefs, hence my comments. I suppose one could bring in the possibility of alien controlled matrix, government mind-control, all is illusion or some such, but I didn't get the impression that that was what this thread is about. Perhaps you could clarify your comments.



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 09:24 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine

Oh yes, certainly, by grace alone is definitively and definitely a Christian held principle. But I do mean it to apply more widely: As in, those who are alive. That should be broad enough.

You see, I've been reading a lot of hate and judgement and dogma, and this is my catma to that. lol.
No, really.

I'm interested, Tangerine, why you think the ideas I've spoken about here aren't "Christian?"
And I'll end there, and let you answer that, alone.
tet



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 09:25 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine

and you mean this, how?



Not only is it passive aggression, the religious concept of free will doesn't explain how an all-knowing and all-powerful deity who created everything could create beings whose future behavior he wouldn't know in advance and didn't design to do exactly as he wished. Either an all-knowing, all-powerful deity who created everything is a ludicrous concept or free will is a ludicrous concept.



I guess my point is, for starters, how dare anyone censor or encapsulate my own thread?

Beyond that, how does alien whatever, government mind control, time controversy disallow a thread with a God centered, life affirming point?

edit on 28-9-2014 by tetra50 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 09:37 PM
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I'm not sure what you all are talking about. Is it - that one can only be 'saved' by grace? Or something about grace and charisma being from the same greek root?

You asked to limit the discussion to your highlighted text but I've yet to read anything that relates to it.

Perhaps, I'm just too base to understand but the question remains askied....



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 09:47 PM
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a reply to: FyreByrd
Yeah, see, people used to tell me this all the time, too. And I pondered just as you are right now.
There's a great deal of hate in the world, lot of judgement being spouted on this site in particular, cause, well, that's what I'm reading, probably.

But grace, and grace alone….what does that mean?
have you read the thread? I think there may be some examples of that herein, I hope. From what I've read, there are, from the miracles of life to the deflation of life. Grace, I think, if I can wrap my head around it, is …..I am created, and so are you. That's why we're here, talking. I don't think to judge your life. It isn't my place. I mean no harm to anyone. I suffer, like everyone. But I will cherish my life and those of others, as long as I can. This may be what I can suss out grace means to me, right now.

Thanks for reading and replying.
tetra



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 10:14 PM
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originally posted by: tetra50
a reply to: FyreByrd
Yeah, see, people used to tell me this all the time, too. And I pondered just as you are right now.
There's a great deal of hate in the world, lot of judgement being spouted on this site in particular, cause, well, that's what I'm reading, probably.

But grace, and grace alone….what does that mean?
have you read the thread? I think there may be some examples of that herein, I hope. From what I've read, there are, from the miracles of life to the deflation of life. Grace, I think, if I can wrap my head around it, is …..I am created, and so are you. That's why we're here, talking. I don't think to judge your life. It isn't my place. I mean no harm to anyone. I suffer, like everyone. But I will cherish my life and those of others, as long as I can. This may be what I can suss out grace means to me, right now.

Thanks for reading and replying.
tetra


Yes, I have read the thread - as I stated in my post.

And what does any of it have to do with grace?

You speak of judgement, suffering but you don't answer my direct and simple question?

What are you talking about? Grace or Charisma? Or something entirely different?



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 10:16 PM
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State your question simply, and I will strive to answer it.
that's all I can do
tetra



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 10:22 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd
I'm not sure what you all are talking about. Is it - that one can only be 'saved' by grace? Or something about grace and charisma being from the same greek root?

You asked to limit the discussion to your highlighted text but I've yet to read anything that relates to it.

Perhaps, I'm just too base to understand but the question remains askied....

Okay, I reread. So here I am.
yes, we can only be saved by grace. Not by acts. Not by faith. Only by grace.
I defined in the beginning what I found "popularly" defines grace, so what we will be saved by.

Understand, I am struggling, just like you, with these definitions, with the understanding of it. The purpose of the thread is to explore all of that. As Jonjon pointed out, do good, be judged by your peers whom should know what "good" is. And I countered that, we live in an age of disinformation. While the NSA or whomever may have cameraed everything, that doesn't necessarily mean all our acts are known. Have the Watchers, of old, been destroyed, or corrupted? I kinda think they might have been, if you know whom I am referring to. So don't rely upon that, either.

And besides that, the idea of grace transcends our acts…..that's the point.
We can attain to the best we can be, and still fail. We can have faith, and still fail at that, when times are so very hard.

But grace means, I am thankful for my life, for all life existing, simply……

I am not here to judge you, your acts, but to respect and love you and spread the grace I've been given by being alive, simply that, and give that back to you….
tetra



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 10:54 PM
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originally posted by: tetra50
a reply to: Tangerine

and you mean this, how?



Not only is it passive aggression, the religious concept of free will doesn't explain how an all-knowing and all-powerful deity who created everything could create beings whose future behavior he wouldn't know in advance and didn't design to do exactly as he wished. Either an all-knowing, all-powerful deity who created everything is a ludicrous concept or free will is a ludicrous concept.



I guess my point is, for starters, how dare anyone censor or encapsulate my own thread?

Beyond that, how does alien whatever, government mind control, time controversy disallow a thread with a God centered, life affirming point?


I wasn't aware that anyone was censoring or encapsulating (?) your thread.

The reference to alien, government, etc. was my way of saying I had no idea what you were talking about in that post and I suspected it was leading to something unusual.

I'm guessing (and it's just a guess) that I'm not alone in not understanding some of the points you're trying to make.



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 10:58 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: tetra50
a reply to: Tangerine

and you mean this, how?



Not only is it passive aggression, the religious concept of free will doesn't explain how an all-knowing and all-powerful deity who created everything could create beings whose future behavior he wouldn't know in advance and didn't design to do exactly as he wished. Either an all-knowing, all-powerful deity who created everything is a ludicrous concept or free will is a ludicrous concept.



I guess my point is, for starters, how dare anyone censor or encapsulate my own thread?

Beyond that, how does alien whatever, government mind control, time controversy disallow a thread with a God centered, life affirming point?


I wasn't aware that anyone was censoring or encapsulating (?) your thread.

The reference to alien, government, etc. was my way of saying I had no idea what you were talking about in that post and I suspected it was leading to something unusual.

I'm guessing (and it's just a guess) that I'm not alone in not understanding some of the points you're trying to make.


Okay. You're probably not.
have a good night, or expand
tetra



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: tetra50

Since you've answered my question, I can now give you my understanding of grace.

I truly believe the Christian idea of Grace, as you've stated, is a cop-out in that grace removes any responsiblity for living a virtuous life and doing good works.

So is grace doled out by lottery, does everyone get it regardless of behavior or believe, or do you have to pay for said grace in some sort of coin to an earthly agent.

If grace is - just is and is available to all and you believe that what is the value of living life ethically. Perhaps that's the problem too much Grace and not enough Karma.

It doesn't make sense.

And don't tell me that it doesn't need to make sense, that it's a matter of faith. I have abundant faith - faith in a unverise of justice and understanding - not one of blind faith.



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 11:15 PM
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a reply to: FyreByrd

Okay see, I didn't get this, either. I'm not sure I do now…I'm still struggling with the concept.
But this:



I truly believe the Christian idea of Grace, as you've stated, is a cop-out in that grace removes any responsiblity for living a virtuous life and doing good works.

So is grace doled out by lottery, does everyone get it regardless of behavior or believe, or do you have to pay for said grace in some sort of coin to an earthly agent.



It means, I think, we are alive, created in His image, or someone's. Regardless of that, WE ARE ALIVE.
If you are happy to be alive, respect the act of living, it follows that you won't hurt, nor disrespect any other life, for you so cherish life, ideally: that is, if you really do. If you really do feel that way about living, then this would follow, that you would respect and consider all who share this state of being with you, and regard them as you regard your own state of being.

This exists apart from your acts or otherwise.
Think about it: If we all held life in a cherished state as I describe, nothing else, your acts, your faith would matter…because they would all seek to raise up the act of living and all who live……Then, your acts and faith would follow, just for your state of appreciating life and state of grace…..

Is that not truly gracious and loving?
edit on 28-9-2014 by tetra50 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 11:21 PM
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To FyreByrd, Tangerine, and everyone who replied to this thread:

If I love my state of being alive and wish not to hurt nor hurt anyone else, this is a state of grace, for God gave me that state, and I would not change it nor rob you of it….
Respectively,
tetra



posted on Sep, 28 2014 @ 11:45 PM
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a reply to: tetra50

If this is about Christianity and the Christian understanding of "Grace" according to the Old and New Testament then shouldn't this be in the Religion section rather than the Philosophy and Metaphysical section?

You are saved by following The Word (Christ) which means actually taking ACTION:


Luke 6:46
"Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?



Luke 6:35-36
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.


You must actually DO the work in order to have the REWARD/CONSEQUENCE of being called "Children of The Highest".


Luke 6:44
For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.


You can't plant bramble bushes and expect to get grapes. You have to plant grape seeds in order to get grapes. You reap the fruits of the seeds you sow. You reap what you sow. If you are planting seeds (taking actions) that are not of God, then you do not receive the reward (fruit) of being called "Children of The Highest". Luke 6:35 says it all - you love your enemies and do good to them and THEN your reward is great and you will be called children of the highest.



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