Did Marco Polo "Discover" America?

a reply to: Hanslune

Nope -

Natives found America first.

Prior to that I would wager an antediluvian civilization found it.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Hanslune

Nope -

Natives found America first.

Prior to that I would wager an antediluvian civilization found it.

Didn't read the article or the first post eh? lol

a reply to: Hanslune

lol just reaffirming the op.

nah, but he did report seeing dinosaurs, which seems more relevant…

a reply to: Verum1quaere

This what Marco's second volume says on the matter

In this province are found snakes and great serpents of such vast size as to strike fear into those who see them, and so hideous that the very account of them must excite the wonder of those to hear it. I will tell you how long and big they are.

You may be assured that some of them are ten paces in length; some are more and some less. And in bulk they are equal to a great cask, for the bigger ones are about ten palms in girth. They have two forelegs near the head, but for foot nothing but a claw like the claw of a hawk or that of a lion. The head is very big, and the eyes are bigger than a great loaf of bread. The mouth is large enough to swallow a man whole, and is garnished with great [pointed] teeth. And in short they are so fierce-looking and so hideously ugly, that every man and beast must stand in fear and trembling of them. There are also smaller ones, such as of eight paces long, and of five, and of one pace only.

The way in which they are caught is this. You must know that by day they live underground because of the great heat, and in the night they go out to feed, and devour every animal they can catch. They go also to drink at the rivers and lakes and springs. And their weight is so great that when they travel in search of food or drink, as they do by night, the tail makes a great furrow in the soil as if a full ton of liquor had been dragged along. Now the huntsmen who go after them take them by certain gyn which they set in the track over which the serpent has past, knowing that the beast will come back the same way. They plant a stake deep in the ground and fix on the head of this a sharp blade of steel made like a razor or a lance-point, and then they cover the whole with sand so that the serpent cannot see it. Indeed the huntsman plants several such stakes and blades on the track. On coming to the spot the beast strikes against the iron blade with such force that it enters his breast and rives him up to the navel, so that he dies on the spot [and the crows on seeing the brute dead begin to caw, and then the huntsmen know that the serpent is dead and come in search of him].

This then is the way these beasts are taken. Those who take them proceed to extract the gall from the inside, and this sells at a great price; for you must know it furnishes the material for a most precious medicine. Thus if a person is bitten by a mad dog, and they give him but a small pennyweight of this medicine to drink, he is cured in a moment. Again if a woman is hard in labour they give her just such another dose and she is delivered at once. Yet again if one has any disease like the itch, or it may be worse, and applies a small quantity of this gall he shall speedily be cured. So you see why it sells at such a high price.

They also sell the flesh of this serpent, for it is excellent eating, and the people are very fond of it. And when these serpents are very hungry, sometimes they will seek out the lairs of lions or bears or other large wild beasts, and devour their cubs, without the sire and dam being able to prevent it. Indeed if they catch the big ones themselves they devour them too; they can make no resistance

MP VOL II

or

As the notes to Marco Polo's Volume II note: NOTE 3.—It cannot be doubted that Marco's serpents here are crocodiles, in spite of his strange mistakes about their having only two feet and one claw on each, and his imperfect knowledge of their aquatic habits. He may have seen only a mutilated specimen. But there is no mistaking the hideous ferocity of the countenance, and the "eyes bigger than a fourpenny loaf," as Ramusio has it. Though the actual eye of the crocodile does not bear this comparison, the prominent orbits do, especially in the case of the Ghariyál of the Ganges, and form one of the most repulsive features of the reptile's physiognomy. In fact, its presence on the surface of an Indian river is often recognisable only by three dark knobs rising above the surface, viz. the snout and the two orbits. And there is some foundation for what our author says of the animal's habits, for the crocodile does sometimes frequent holes at a distance from water, of which a striking instance is within my own recollection (in which the deep furrowed track also was a notable circumstance).

The Cochin Chinese are very fond of crocodile's flesh, and there is or was a regular export of this dainty for their use from Kamboja. I have known it eaten by certain classes in India. (J.R.G.S. XXX. 193.)

edited to add The province of Carajan is now known as Yunnan.

I'm not sure what the interest is. Going by Archaeology on the ground, supported by the sagas, Leif Ericsson made it to Newfoundland (and hence the new world) before any of these people. Whoever came second or third or fourth... *shrug*

originally posted by: Culcullen
I'm not sure what the interest is. Going by Archaeology on the ground, supported by the sagas, Leif Ericsson made it to Newfoundland (and hence the new world) before any of these people. Whoever came second or third or fourth... *shrug*

Well the Norse were definitely second as tens of thousands of others discovered the Americas first. However, if you mean found by non-Native American then they were 2nd again as Inuit in Asia discovered the Americas every few weeks for thousands of years.

So it goes to some unknown ancestor of the Native Americans but for having been the first to record it the Norse get 1st.

One thing that I find interesting, if the map has any amount of authenticity to it at all, is that it appears to show that whole Bering Strait area as it would be if it were mostly frozen over, during the last Ice Age.

a reply to: Hanslune

Yes my point exactly, the first Europeans who were aware they were standing on a new continental landmass. The "Skraelings", as the Norse called them, of course get first prize, though the case of the Kennewick man is interesting as testing appears to show a Polynesian genome. He is, however, mired in controversy.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Culcullen

He (K-man) shares a common ancestor with the people who later gave birth to the Polynesians. When he was alive the people we know as the Polynesians didn't exist (AFAWKN).

a reply to: Hanslune
Hi there Hans,
The Smithsonian mag has a really goof article on KM , and some of the findings are very interesting.
One finding is that KM lived most of his life in high lattitude glacial environments.
He drank glacial melt water for most of his life, and only ventured south later on in life.

The only thing that Marco Polo discovered was that someone else got here before he did.

History is a massive lie.

So is the Smithsonian...

They have about as much credibility as the National Enquirer in fact.

The suppression of knowledge and covering up the truth about history is the only thing they care about.

“There are two histories: official history, lying, and then secret history, where you find the real causes of events.” ~ Honoré de Balzac

originally posted by: Murgatroid
The only thing that Marco Polo discovered was that someone else got here before he did.

History is a massive lie.

So is the Smithsonian...

They have about as much credibility as the National Enquirer in fact.

The suppression of knowledge and covering up the truth about history is the only thing they care about.

“There are two histories: official history, lying, and then secret history, where you find the real causes of events.” ~ Honoré de Balzac

Yes you say that all the time but when challenged to start a thread to offer up your evidence in support of your contention - you don't.....

Why is that?

Hey Hans

maybe Murgatroid doesn't care for your opinion.....
ATS is a place for many non-orthodox points of view....
and that's what makes ATS interesting....

why do you expect every one to believe the same things that you've been taught.....and that changes with every new publication that comes out from the peer reviewed world that you are a slave to.....
if you don't agree with your masters.....then you don't get a hole to sit in with your paint brush and trowel.....

you don't come across as an independent ologist breaking new ground...discovering new finds....blazing new paths...

all I ever see.... is you whinging and complaining about a point of view that a poster has.....you know.... how you belittle people and put them down, rubbish what they have to say because it doesn't gel with your orthodox controlled point of view.......and then high 5 Harte because you feel that you have put a fringy in their place.....such style and decorum.

I think history is a multi-faceted subject for everybody ......its not one persons opinion....

originally posted by: tri-lobe-1
Hey Hans

maybe Murgatroid doesn't care for your opinion.....
ATS is a place for many non-orthodox points of view....
and that's what makes ATS interesting....

Yes it is an interesting place but all he does is complain and make statements without backing them up - or do you believe we shouldn't challenge other un-evidenced contentions? you seem to be - ineffectually - attacking me for my point of view - why are you doing that if you don't feel I should do so to Murgatroid? You seem to be confused.

why do you expect every one to believe the same things that you've been taught.....and that changes with every new publication that comes out from the peer reviewed world that you are a slave to.....
if you don't agree with your masters.....then you don't get a hole to sit in with your paint brush and trowel.....

I don't so why do you expect me to act in the way that you imagine? Oh my you really seemed to have a distorted view of most everything?

you don't come across as an independent ologist breaking new ground...discovering new finds....blazing new paths...

Considering I left Archaeology nearly thirty years ago I cannot imagine what the problem could be, lol

all I ever see.... is you whinging and complaining about a point of view that a poster has.....you know.... how you belittle people and put them down, rubbish what they have to say because it doesn't gel with your orthodox controlled point of view.......and then high 5 Harte because you feel that you have put a fringy in their place.....such style and decorum.

The point of a discussion board is discussion not blind acceptance, which is why fringe and orthodox opinion are both challenge here - what exactly do you think this board should be used for? Thank you that is the effect I've been going for.

I think history is a multi-faceted subject for everybody ......its not one persons opinion....

Wait, you are contradicting yourself; first you say I'm a slave of orthodoxy then you say I'm voicing only one opinion - would you mind staying with just one thing you've up about me to complain about? I'm sorry but I can't do both those things you are accusing me at the same time....lol

originally posted by: Hanslune
Yes you say that all the time but when challenged to start a thread to offer up your evidence in support of your contention - you don't.....

Why is that?

I've had several others say the same thing...

The reasons are simple really, genuine interest in the truth appears to be almost completely non-existent here.

Thread starters on ATS are inundated with a non-stop barrage of rude comments, spiteful insults, childish remarks, name calling, off topic replies, etc.

Those who DO speak the truth here are usually mocked, ridiculed, and attacked personally.

This kind of drama and hate is counterproductive and all it does is turn everyone off and drive the intelligent people away.

Ever try to carry on a normal conversation in a room full of screaming, whining children?

Good luck with that...

As far as arguing with diehard skeptics goes, it seems pointless to me.

As for offering up supporting evidence, SERIOUSLY?

Show me ONE person here that does that more than I have...

a reply to: Hanslune

So Marco Polo discovered america before the russian indians did?
Who would later become native american indians even tho they
also migrated here? According to popularized postulations they
certainly do disagree with of course. This leaves me with one
question.

WTF is going on?

a reply to: Murgatroid

Slayer does he is an alternative thinker, posts threads constantly that challenges the mainstream and he provides evidence, you don't do that.

You post and bolt

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Hanslune

So Marco Polo discovered america before the russian indians did?
Who would later become native american indians even tho they
also migrated here? According to popularized postulations they
certainly do disagree with of course. This leaves me with one
question.

WTF is going on?

Nope there is a claim that he did so before Columbus, no one is challenging that the NA were first....obviously!

a reply to: Hanslune

Oh! Okay, cause I was gonna say I've never heard one story
from any of NA nations. Describing a journey by land that
has them walking here. Anyway Marco got around quite a bit
by most accounts.