Kristallnacht : A warning from history

a reply to: neformore

originally posted by: Zaphod58


Yes IF people were grouping the radicals together. They're talking about ALL Muslims.

originally posted by: xavi1000

Radical Jews and Christians are tiny minority, but radical muslims are very very big number.

I think some are missing the point of the vast majority posting here and are being accused here of Islamaphobia. They seem to miss the parts posted such as Extremists and Radical but only see the follow on part of Muslim and Islam.

a reply to: semperfortis

And the vast majority of Muslims don't want anything to do with the radicals, but are being lumped in with them regardless. And judging by this thread, a lot of people don't have a problem with that.

a reply to: SLAYER69

And there are a lot more people than the ones in the thread, now aren't there. Or are they the only ones that matter?

I have looked over this whole thread. I didnt see anyone say "all Muslims blah blah blah"

I havent ever really seen that in person either.

Who is this intended to correct exactly?

Who is running around in any meaningful fashion condemning Muslims? IS this even necessary?

IMO this all creeps to close towards apologetic sentiments that we are all to familiar with.

You can assume that most people are dumb and in need of your correction all you want. I just dont see it. I think that those that are so worried about Moderate and Radical Muslims alike need to have a little bit of correction themselves.


You are making an issue where there is not. Worse, you are making trivial something that is not.

a reply to: tadaman

I'm guessing you haven't seen any of the threads even remotely associated with Islam over this past week.............................

a reply to: daaskapital

Nothing special no. I am guessing you havent seen a thread on the internet ever if you are shocked.

a reply to: Zaphod58

a reply to: semperfortis

Just checking, in case you thought I'd gone nuts

originally posted by: semperfortis
Maybe some of it is a lack of reading what is posted and reading what one wants to "hear"

As I have already shown???

And with that I'm out, Laundry to do and Pork Chops to grill later.


PEACE

a reply to: neformore

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: daaskapital

Nothing special no. I am guessing you havent seen a thread on the internet ever if you are shocked.

No, i'm not shocked. Just pointing out that this thread is needed, going off of the bigotry displayed on ATS alone. Many threads over the past week have descended into mostly Islamophobic #storms, with many members engaging in hate and generalisations.

And you know what. That is only ATS. As you would know by reading the OP, this thread was aimed at not only those posts, but posts and opinions elsewhere.

This thread was sorely needed in this current climate of hate.

a reply to: daaskapital

Hate?

Where? Who is hating Muslims?

Known hate groups? You think this or anything will change their minds? Like those of radical Muslims....set in stone.

If the average person is running around hating Muslims then Yes, go ahead. If not then this is not needed and actually does a disservice.

If anything I would say that most negative comments by the average person are about TOO MUCH acceptance and consideration towards Muslims.

a reply to: tadaman

I think you need to do yourself a favour and dig up all the threads regarding Islam over the past week to see what i and many others here mean.

a reply to: Zaphod58

YES and people will continue to do so until Muslims yes Muslims! get their house in order, Reformation is long overdue it is now time for Muslims to stand up and be counted to change the perceptions aimed so viciously their way, yes there are many organisations calling for Reformation but this must be a concerted effort from the Islam as a whole. Unfortunately many Muslims still believe Islam does not need to be reformed. My point being many will still demonize Muslims/Islam until they address this issue, until they are prepared to jump into the 21st century with us we will see never ending friction i.e. them/us.

Richay

a reply to: daaskapital

I could do the same about immigration, or reverse racism, or wealth hatred. What exactly would I be looking for?

EDIT TO ADD:

I will answer that. Human nature.

People can get upset if you give them reason. I dont take issue with people denouncing the evils of my race or nation. I KNOW they arent talking about me. Moderate Muslims should do the same.

and I am out. I dont want to keep this going. I think I said my peace. Have a good day all.

a reply to: tadaman

Any thread that you would assume to be associated with Islam, really. They all start with different topics, but descend into the same war. Probably a good idea to go back and look through some members' posts here to see what threads were defaced, as there were a decent amount.

originally posted by: tadaman
I dont take issue with people denouncing the evils of my race or nation. I KNOW they arent talking about me. Moderate Muslims should do the same.

The second point. It's not individuals that we are talking about here. Individuals opinions carry little weight. What the OP is talking about, if one took the time to read it , is concerted efforts in an organized fashion by news sources, blogs, etc. Those carry weight.

a reply to: daaskapital
You could say the same about anything - Islam, Judaism, Christianity, satanism, freemasonry, whatever. There are endless threads painting every member with the same brush.

And people claiming they are justified in doing so - and they partially are, because there are criminals at the top of all of these groups. People are predictable, and it's easier to hate than to understand.

There is a fine line to walk supporting any side of any argument, without falling into an extreme branch. Sometimes hatred of ISIS makes you want to hate all muslims, sometimes Israeli politics make you want to hate all jews, sometimes catholic priests make you want to hate all christians, sometimes mason judges make you want to hate all freemasons. It's just the way people are wired.

Phew! I don't think I've seen a thread here yet where the mods were so heated!!!

Obviously this is a hot and sensitive subject right now. I think the OP is saying that we need to keep cool heads and not allow ourselves to knee-jerk by looking at the whole Muslim population with disgust. It may tempting, but we need to be careful.

I am totally cognizant of the fact that the majority of Muslims are not extremist. My biggest concern is that the extremists are doing everything they can to "convert" the more moderate majority over to their side. What helps them is the absolute hell-hole some of these countries are - the extreme poverty, the war-torn areas -- people there are tired and sick and dejected. When a group comes along and says they know how to fix things - that they can make everything better -- it's not too hard to see how some could get turned.

If I have my history right, I think that was part of what happened in Nazi Germany. The economy was failing miserably (Great Depression), people were losing jobs, homes, etc. Hitler comes along and says he can fix things. He did indeed fix some things (or at least he took credit for it), which got the people's confidence. They started trusting him and looking to him as their hero. It just went south from there. I know I am simplifying things here, but the point is - people who are in dire straits are looking for a hero/heroes to save them. The extremist Muslim groups are eager to present themselves as those heroes.

What can be done about this? There are no easy answers. One thing I know for sure - we want to make sure the Muslim people know that we don't condemn all of them for the actions of the extremists. We could certainly try to kill all the extremists, but they've proven to be very difficult to totally extinguish. I would love for us to work with the moderate Muslims to help their countries overcome poverty so that the downtrodden are not such easy victims of the extremist propaganda. Am I just being too naive here?