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Jon Stewart - "Nobody says, hey, men should not drink..."

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posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 03:59 PM
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"Nobody says, hey, men should not drink. It's all about women must dress differently. Women must walk differently. Women must drink differently. Why are we not able to hold men to account for this behavior?"
viralwomen.com...


I do not blame victims, but I have a problem with this quote from Jon Stewarts interview with Kirsten Gillibrand. Why is it that if men are drunk they are held responsible for their actions, but women are not? I know that the vast majority of drunken rapes happen between a sober man and a drunk woman... But could it be that if a woman was responsibly drinking than her abuse could be avoided? Why is it that the womans actions are never questioned? I'm not saying she should be blamed, or shamed. But it's not entirely wrong to say "It's a possibility that had she of been drinking responsibly, it may not have happened." I need to also make clear, this is different than a situation where a woman is drinking responsibly but she's slipped something in her drink. Of course, it's avoidable by staying at home... But women shouldn't have to stay home out of fear that she'll be drugged and raped.

If I was out drinking and I got so wasted that I had no idea what was going on, I would want someone to call me on it. "You weren't being responsible. It's not your fault that you were raped. But you weren't being responsible. Your actions made you a possible victim."

Obviously rapists will never be able to be rehabilitated. They will never change, and we'll never be able to teach someone to act differently. If they are that sick, they will continue to be that way. But we can teach women how to protect themselves. "Don't get stupid drunk in public," "Don't take a drink you didn't see being prepared.." And the like. And some people would say "Why do we have to teach women these things?" Because when drunk in public, being raped is only one thing that could happen. There are numerous other things that could happen. You make yourself a possible victim to everything when your in public. Drunk or not, really.

This quote made me think of something I read recently, Link Here: www.buzzfeed.com...

The guy is sick for being a rapist and preying on children (and barely legal teenagers), but I think it's safe to say a box of rocks may have been smarter than the girl. The girl wasn't drinking. She just met up with the guy. And he forced himself on her. Once, then she met up with her companions, met up with the guy again, and was forced on again. ... For concert tickets. What? Why did she go back? You can't tell me she didn't know it would probably happen again.

End of the post here, because I feel like I'm rambling. I don't mean to offend anyone, and I don't mean to make it sound like I'm victim shaming, because I'm not trying to. I just don't think that it's wrong to call a person out (MAN OR WOMAN) on their irresponsibility that leads to their abuse. They are a victim either way, I'm not denying that. I'm just trying to get people to see all sides. We won't be able to teach people not to rape, because there are bad people in the world, and if they are going to rape someone it's not something that we can change, but we can teach women to protect themselves better in a way that could make rape avoidable.
edit on 27-9-2014 by Lyxdeslic because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-9-2014 by Lyxdeslic because: (no reason given)



+29 more 
posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: Lyxdeslic

Because it is not a woman's responsibility to prevent rape. She shouldn't have to.

If a woman got black-out drunk, dressed scantily, and danced provocatively every single night for her entire life and she even once got raped, it would not be her fault. Rape is the fault of the rapist, no matter what.


+2 more 
posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 04:14 PM
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originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: Lyxdeslic

Because it is not a woman's responsibility to prevent rape. She shouldn't have to.

If a woman got black-out drunk, dressed scantily, and danced provocatively every single night for her entire life and she even once got raped, it would not be her fault. Rape is the fault of the rapist, no matter what.


I agree.

I've been ridiculously drunk many times in the presence of ridiculously drunk or even passed-out women. I've never once taken advantage of the situation because even super drunk me knows that it's rape.

Where I disagree with the premise is when a woman gets drunk, has sex willingly, and then claims rape when they decide that it was a drunken mistake. THAT muddies the issue and causes people to not believe women with legitimate cases of rape.

The line is simple: If she is drunk but throws herself on a man and says yes, it's not rape. If she's passed out, never showed interest in having sex with the particular man, or has lost control of her physical capacities and can't even say yes or no, it's rape.
edit on 9/27/2014 by Answer because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 04:14 PM
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I said numerous times that it isn't their fault either way. It just doesn't make sense to me that men (No matter what the situation is for that matter) must take responsibility for their actions, but women don't. And I'm saying this as a situation outside of rape, as well. Women are always made to be victims. (I'm a woman, myself, and I've had it happen to me.)

It's the same thing with physical abuse, like hitting and what not. A woman gets abused, and they blame the man. A man gets abused and they still blame the man. How is that equal at all? A man gets drunk and gets into trouble, and he's blamed. A woman gets into trouble while drunk and they blame the people around her "Why didn't you watch her? Why'd you allow her to leave?" Why is it societies responsibility to watch over women? Why can't women take responsibility for herself? Why can't women be 'smart enough' for lack of better wording to be like, "Getting drunk in public isn't a very good idea for anyone," and etc?



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: Lyxdeslic

Because it is not a woman's responsibility to prevent rape. She shouldn't have to.

If a woman got black-out drunk, dressed scantily, and danced provocatively every single night for her entire life and she even once got raped, it would not be her fault. Rape is the fault of the rapist, no matter what.


I agree.

I've been ridiculously drunk many times in the presence of ridiculously drunk or even passed-out women. I've never once taken advantage of the situation because even super drunk me knows that it's rape.

Where I disagree with the premise is when a woman gets drunk, has sex willingly, and then claims rape when they decide that it was a drunken mistake. THAT muddies the issue and causes people to not believe women with legitimate cases of rape.

The line is simple: If she is drunk but throws herself on a man and says yes, it's not rape. If she's passed out, never showed interest in having sex with the particular man, or has lost control of her physical capacities and can't even say yes or no, it's rape.


That's another problem I have, too. Is that a woman can say, "I was drunk and raped." But she clearly said yes. That isn't rape and a man (or very seldom, woman) gets put away FOR YEARS because someone was too ashamed to admit they were irresponsibly drunk and had casual sex.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 04:18 PM
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originally posted by: Lyxdeslic
I said numerous times that it isn't their fault either way. It just doesn't make sense to me that men (No matter what the situation is for that matter) must take responsibility for their actions, but women don't. And I'm saying this as a situation outside of rape, as well. Women are always made to be victims. (I'm a woman, myself, and I've had it happen to me.)

It's the same thing with physical abuse, like hitting and what not. A woman gets abused, and they blame the man. A man gets abused and they still blame the man. How is that equal at all? A man gets drunk and gets into trouble, and he's blamed. A woman gets into trouble while drunk and they blame the people around her "Why didn't you watch her? Why'd you allow her to leave?" Why is it societies responsibility to watch over women? Why can't women take responsibility for herself? Why can't women be 'smart enough' for lack of better wording to be like, "Getting drunk in public isn't a very good idea for anyone," and etc?


Women should be responsible but being drunk in public should not make them targets of rape. Period.

It's like saying "well of course your kid got kidnapped, you took them to a playground and turned your head for 5 seconds." Kidnappers are vile despicable human beings just like rapists. Losing your wits for a little while shouldn't turn you into a victim.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 04:30 PM
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originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic
I said numerous times that it isn't their fault either way. It just doesn't make sense to me that men (No matter what the situation is for that matter) must take responsibility for their actions, but women don't. And I'm saying this as a situation outside of rape, as well. Women are always made to be victims. (I'm a woman, myself, and I've had it happen to me.)

It's the same thing with physical abuse, like hitting and what not. A woman gets abused, and they blame the man. A man gets abused and they still blame the man. How is that equal at all? A man gets drunk and gets into trouble, and he's blamed. A woman gets into trouble while drunk and they blame the people around her "Why didn't you watch her? Why'd you allow her to leave?" Why is it societies responsibility to watch over women? Why can't women take responsibility for herself? Why can't women be 'smart enough' for lack of better wording to be like, "Getting drunk in public isn't a very good idea for anyone," and etc?


Women should be responsible but being drunk in public should not make them targets of rape. Period.

It's like saying "well of course your kid got kidnapped, you took them to a playground and turned your head for 5 seconds." Kidnappers are vile despicable human beings just like rapists. Losing your wits for a little while shouldn't turn you into a victim.


But unfortunately it does turn them into targets. It isn't fair but it's true. I was raised to be a responsible adult, and even without the fear of being raped, why would someone be that drunk in public? If you can't control your drinking you shouldn't be drinking to begin with. The world isn't safe and never will be. Women need to stop acting like it is. As a child I was abused, and maybe it's led to me being an overly cautious adult? I don't know. What everyone is saying makes a lot of sense, and I thank you for going the more logical route, rather than automatically accuse me of victim shaming.

When it comes to kids, I think it's different. They don't know any better, and yeah, if a parent doesn't turn their head for that five seconds maybe their kid wouldn't be kidnapped. But it happens. There's muddier water there, because people would blame the parents, but they could be fantastic parents, and just screw up one time.

I guess it's the same for adults, it only takes that one time getting drunk in public.
I dunno. I guess this thread was more about everything as a whole with equality. Men are always held responsible. Even in the far out cases of woman on man rape, the man 'wanted it,' and the woman is still a victim. We can never be equal until we get rid of these double standards.
edit on 27-9-2014 by Lyxdeslic because: (no reason given)


+1 more 
posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 04:30 PM
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originally posted by: Lyxdeslic
"Nobody says, hey, men should not drink. It's all about women must dress differently. Women must walk differently. Women must drink differently. Why are we not able to hold men to account for this behavior?"
viralwomen.com...


I do not blame victims, but I have a problem with this quote from Jon Stewarts interview with Kirsten Gillibrand. Why is it that if men are drunk they are held responsible for their actions, but women are not? I know that the vast majority of drunken rapes happen between a sober man and a drunk woman... But could it be that if a woman was responsibly drinking than her abuse could be avoided? .


A woman could be drunk every minute of her life and no rape would occur until a rapist decided to rape her. You've got your head seriously wedged.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: Lyxdeslic


That's another problem I have, too. Is that a woman can say, "I was drunk and raped." But she clearly said yes. That isn't rape and a man (or very seldom, woman) gets put away FOR YEARS because someone was too ashamed to admit they were irresponsibly drunk and had casual sex.


There's a theme to your posts and we all know what it is. The question is why you're advertising it.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 04:35 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic
"Nobody says, hey, men should not drink. It's all about women must dress differently. Women must walk differently. Women must drink differently. Why are we not able to hold men to account for this behavior?"
viralwomen.com...


I do not blame victims, but I have a problem with this quote from Jon Stewarts interview with Kirsten Gillibrand. Why is it that if men are drunk they are held responsible for their actions, but women are not? I know that the vast majority of drunken rapes happen between a sober man and a drunk woman... But could it be that if a woman was responsibly drinking than her abuse could be avoided? .


A woman could be drunk every minute of her life and no rape would occur until a rapist decided to rape her. You've got your head seriously wedged.


I didn't ever deny that? I just stated that we're obviously never going to be able to change rapists, or even get rid of them so women need to be responsible. We can't teach people not to rape, because if they want to rape someone they will. Some people are just born or turned into sick, evil individuals. So because of this, women need to be responsible and learn how they might be able to avoid these encounters.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 04:36 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic


That's another problem I have, too. Is that a woman can say, "I was drunk and raped." But she clearly said yes. That isn't rape and a man (or very seldom, woman) gets put away FOR YEARS because someone was too ashamed to admit they were irresponsibly drunk and had casual sex.


There's a theme to your posts and we all know what it is. The question is why you're advertising it.


I'm not sure I understand?



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 04:55 PM
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If a young woman plans to out and get "wasted", then she should make sure to have a designated driver and personal bodyguard/babysitter to help her get home safely when she becomes incapacitated....instead on naively believing everyone out there of the male persuasion is a knight in shining armor.

Time and time again it has been proven this is not always the case.

I'm not victim blaming here - I'm a woman myself and been through more than I care to share - but when you know the potential to be raped exists, why on earth would any female prefer to stick her head in the sand and continue protesting that they have no responsibility whatsoever to protect themselves from potential predators?

Until rapists no longer feel the need to rape, we have to accept that it is our duty - as parents, females, concerned citizens and as a society - to not turn a blind eye to the very real threat of sexual predators and adjust our behavior accordingly.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 04:57 PM
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originally posted by: GENERAL EYES

If a young woman plans to out and get "wasted", then she should make sure to have a designated driver and personal bodyguard/babysitter to help her get home safely when she becomes incapacitated....instead on naively believing everyone out there of the male persuasion is a knight in shining armor.

Time and time again it has been proven this is not always the case.

I'm not victim blaming here - I'm a woman myself and been through more than I care to share - but when you know the potential to be raped exists, why on earth would any female prefer to stick her head in the sand and continue protesting that they have no responsibility whatsoever to protect themselves from potential predators?

Until rapists no longer feel the need to rape, we have to accept that it is our duty - as parents, females, concerned citizens and as a society - to not turn a blind eye to the very real threat of sexual predators and adjust our behavior accordingly.


I'm glad that I am not the only female that thinks this. Thank you.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 05:17 PM
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OK yes. Women should be careful. But the problem is that too many rapes are just swept under the carpet. In sports, college and the military, rape is less a state lottery probability and more a rigged roulette wheel and rarely is anything pursued at all.

As a man of average looks I've never had any fear of rape. My sister of average looks is terrified to an almost paranoid degree. Her whole life she's been cautious to the point where she's missed out on a lot. Some of this stems from the abducting of a female jogger in my town in broad daylight (not a slum, one of the nicest safest places in the USA) and also her and my other sister getting stalked by a van for a long time which the police couldn't solve.

Either way the message on caution for woman is out. We're way past the education and awareness stage. Let's start trying to cure the disease.

The best way to do that is to stop protecting rapists and blaming victims. You can say you're not victim blaming all day but when you're still taking about things the victims can/should do, that's all it is.

You've accepted the inevitability of rapists. I bet if ever rapist in the military was court martialed and every college student rapist expelled we'd see a lot of improvement. You're part of the problem when you advocate for more responsibility on the victims even if you don't DIRECTLY blame them.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 05:23 PM
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originally posted by: Lyxdeslic
I just stated that we're obviously never going to be able to change rapists, or even get rid of them so women need to be responsible. We can't teach people not to rape, because if they want to rape someone they will. Some people are just born or turned into sick, evil individuals. So because of this, women need to be responsible and learn how they might be able to avoid these encounters.


I can hardly believe what I'm reading... especially from someone who says they're a woman. WHY can't we teach men not to rape??? WHY can't we change rapists??? You seem to think that we can't do anything about the rapist, so we'll make the victim responsible???? That's crazy talk! Absolutely insane!

Look, I actually AM a woman. And I have been raped. And I AM responsible for myself, but I"m not, in ANY way responsible for the rape.

I'm very uncomfortable with the way you talk about rape and want to hold the woman responsible, and then in another breath, you're talking about women who are not raped, but claim it... as if the two are related. That's two VERY different things and are not to be confused with each other.

Jon Stewart is absolutely right.
edit on 9/27/2014 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 05:25 PM
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a reply to: Lyxdeslic
Before I read further posts, I wanted to respond. A few years back, I was 'online' dating. I met up with a guy at a bar, and yes, we had threw back some drinks. He wanted to take me out that night to a 'concert'! Admittedly, I had a few drinks so I decided to throw caution to the wind. We had 60 miles to get there and 'fortunately' his condo was on the way since his 'tickets' were there. At his place, he showed me around and since there was a couple of hours before the concert would start, he made us some drinks out of my sight. When he arrived with the drinks I set mine on the coffee table and did not drink it, immediately. When he set his glass down, I switched them. We had a nice conversation and drink, until he became very ill. Sweating profusely and nauseous. Uh huh. Needless, to say, he was quite upset. No concert that night. I locked myself in his guest room and pretended I was disheartened that he took ill. He even had the nerve to accuse me between vomiting that I had drugged him! That really confirmed to me that is exactly what he tried to do to me. Lol. The next morning he was sober and apologetic, gave me a ride home. Naturally, we never dated again. Why didn't I report him? Seriously, I had no proof. Survival instincts kicked in and I just wanted to make my way home safe.

My whole point being that even if I drunk alcohol and threw caution to the wind, I took responsibility. I basically f*cked up and knew it! Sure in a perfect world, one should not have to worry about rape, but seriously, that is fantasy! I accept the responsibilty that I made my own choices, starting with drinking too much and putting myself in harms way.

Don't get me wrong, I know what rape is all about. I had been raped as a child. In some cases, it is unavoidable and the victim is truly a victim. But when a woman chooses to loosen up with alcohol or drugs of her own choosing...she has made her own choices. In my case above, I made the choice to drink. Was he a scumbag, yes. Yet, if I had not thrown caution to the wind...I would never had found myself in such a bad situation. Women should not be victimized, instead they should be educated. Equality is knowing the difference between fantasy and reality.

edit on 9 27 2014 by CynConcepts because: Spelling and grammar errors



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 05:30 PM
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I might catch some hell for this post, but im going for it anyways.

I think the biggest problem with this entire debate is the definition of the word rape. Over the years rape has gone from forcing sexual intercoarse or oral on a person with either no consent, or full on refusal. This type of behavior is abhorrent and i have zero respect for anybody who would force themselves on another. I believe the punishment should be swift and severe. This kind of rape should be treated the same as murder because even though the victim is still alive, part of them is dead and will never come back. Any violent sexual action taken without consent is rape, and this includes drugging someone. Drugging someone against their will, or without their knowledge should be considered a violent action if it is not already.

The situation described above is just one of the many definitions of rape. There is also statutory rape, date rape, and many other types that is just referred to as rape, but is very different than the violent actions described above. I do not believe that these non-violent cases should even be called rape. They should have their own classification and be treated differently as they are vastly different.

If a 19 year old is sleeping with his high school girlfriend who is still in school and 17, he should never be branded a rapist. If two adults get drunk at a party and end up sleeping with each other, one of them should not be able to claim rape the next day when they regret the decision. Militant feminists should not be claiming rape because a man opened a door for them.

I am in no way advocating rape, taking advantage of people, or any kind of trickery to get in bed with someone. I am simply stating that there are many aspects of this debate that must be addressed and clarified if there is ever going to be an end to it.

If we, as a society, are not careful there will soon be requirements for signed documentation of consent that must be signed by both/all parties involved in the act, lawyers, witnesses and then notarized prior to any sexual act taking place. The days of spontaneous sexual acts between consenting partners will be gone forever.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 05:54 PM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic
I just stated that we're obviously never going to be able to change rapists, or even get rid of them so women need to be responsible. We can't teach people not to rape, because if they want to rape someone they will. Some people are just born or turned into sick, evil individuals. So because of this, women need to be responsible and learn how they might be able to avoid these encounters.


I can hardly believe what I'm reading... especially from someone who says they're a woman. WHY can't we teach men not to rape??? WHY can't we change rapists??? You seem to think that we can't do anything about the rapist, so we'll make the victim responsible???? That's crazy talk! Absolutely insane!

Look, I actually AM a woman. And I have been raped. And I AM responsible for myself, but I"m not, in ANY way responsible for the rape.

I'm very uncomfortable with the way you talk about rape and want to hold the woman responsible, and then in another breath, you're talking about women who are not raped, but claim it... as if the two are related. That's two VERY different things and are not to be confused with each other.

Jon Stewart is absolutely right.


We can't teach people to not the rape the same way that we can't teach people to not kill each other, or judge others, or whatever else. Here's an example: My mother had four kids. Myself, my two younger brothers, and my younger sister. Myself, one of my younger brothers, and my younger sister turned out fine. My closest in age younger brother however, has not. Despite the fact that my mother tried her very hardest to teach us the right way to act, he steals, lies, cheats, etc. Sometimes no matter how hard you try to teach someone to be good, they don't always follow it. It's really naive to think that just because we consistently tell someone that they shouldn't rape that they would listen. Some might, but others won't. I'm not trying to hold the woman responsible for being raped. I'm just saying that they should not act like this world is a safe place. If they even think that something they are doing COULD get them raped, why on Earth would they do it? I'm being realistic. We need to be able to teach women how to potentially avoid rape. Even if that means that they avoid getting sloppy drunk in public. We need to teach women what to do if they are approached.
Also, I'm not comparing real rape to 'day after ashamed lets say it was rape kind of rape.' However they are related. Out of all of the rape kits put into medical offices to be examined, only half of those kits are actually tested. Why? Because of the women that accuse men of raping them when they just regret sex from the night before.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 05:55 PM
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originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: Lyxdeslic
Before I read further posts, I wanted to respond. A few years back, I was 'online' dating. I met up with a guy at a bar, and yes, we had threw back some drinks. He wanted to take me out that night to a 'concert'! Admittedly, I had a few drinks so I decided to throw caution to the wind. We had 60 miles to get there and 'fortunately' his condo was on the way since his 'tickets' were there. At his place, he showed me around and since there was a couple of hours before the concert would start, he made us some drinks out of my sight. When he arrived with the drinks I set mine on the coffee table and did not drink it, immediately. When he set his glass down, I switched them. We had a nice conversation and drink, until he became very ill. Sweating profusely and nauseous. Uh huh. Needless, to say, he was quite upset. No concert that night. I locked myself in his guest room and pretended I was disheartened that he took ill. He even had the nerve to accuse me between vomiting that I had drugged him! That really confirmed to me that is exactly what he tried to do to me. Lol. The next morning he was sober and apologetic, gave me a ride home. Naturally, we never dated again. Why didn't I report him? Seriously, I had no proof. Survival instincts kicked in and I just wanted to make my way home safe.

My whole point being that even if I drunk alcohol and threw caution to the wind, I took responsibility. I basically f*cked up and knew it! Sure in a perfect world, one should not have to worry about rape, but seriously, that is fantasy! I accept the responsibilty that I made my own choices, starting with drinking too much and putting myself in harms way.

Don't get me wrong, I know what rape is all about. I had been raped as a child. In some cases, it is unavoidable and the victim is truly a victim. But when a woman chooses to loosen up with alcohol or drugs of her own choosing...she has made her own choices. In my case above, I made the choice to drink. Was he a scumbag, yes. Yet, if I had not thrown caution to the wind...I would never had found myself in such a bad situation. Women should not be victimized, instead they should be educated. Equality is knowing the difference between fantasy and reality.


This is exactly what I mean. Thank you.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 05:56 PM
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originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: Lyxdeslic

Because it is not a woman's responsibility to prevent rape. She shouldn't have to.

If a woman got black-out drunk, dressed scantily, and danced provocatively every single night for her entire life and she even once got raped, it would not be her fault. Rape is the fault of the rapist, no matter what.


Of course it isn't her fault that she gets raped, but she is still a disgusting human being to be avoided. I am not ready to give out awards for that type of promiscuous behavior.



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