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"It's easy to demonise Putin," – and he's not a Hitler

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posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 09:04 PM
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a reply to: GargIndia




Most of your actions are failing. The war on terror since 2001 has yielded only temporary results, and now terrorists are exploding all over the world. The Muslim populations in YOUR OWN countries are feeding the terrorists. What have you done?

The West is seized with inaction. It is engaged in shadow boxing.


One things that boggles my mind is in the US, where the world's top business consultants, strategists, innovators, problem solvers, turnaround guys come from.............why on earth has West not been able to device a strategy and mode of action, which would kill off the terrorism problem?

It seems the interests of some other "column" in the western society are NOT allowing the US to correctly confront and solve its problems with the Islamic world.............in easier way and on the cheaper dollar amounts.




posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 10:12 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




The flaw in your argument is the fact the Prime Minister, Sergey Aksyonov, is a Russian citizen - NOT Ukrainian. He was not elected and had no authority.


It is true that in that wiki article Aksyonov wasn't mentioned as a holder of Ukranian citizenship, but I can't believe he wasn't.

In 2012 he was one of the candidates in Ukranian Rada, I can't believe that in Ukraine you are eligible to be on a ballot in the vote to the Parliament without even being a citizen.





Кандидат Графік % ЗА Голосів ЗА
Дзоз Віталіна Олексіївна , Партія регіонів 38.76 27 937
Грач Леонід Іванович , самовисування 17.98 12 960
Соломахін Олег Андрійович , Комуністична партія України 10.58 7 630
Аксенов Сергій Валерійович , Політична партія "Руська Єдність" 9.12 6 575


Source

And he was
Since 2010 he was a deputy of the Supreme Council of Crimea, elected as a member of Russian Unity, which had 4% of votes (warranting 3 seats of total 100 in Crimean parliament) during elections into Supreme Council of Crimea.


edit on 30-9-2014 by kitzik because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-9-2014 by kitzik because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 10:37 PM
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originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

It only makes right sense. There is huge huge jam at the ferry transit between Russia and Crimea. Several km long cars waiting for ferry would not be possible in winter. Delivering goods and supplies via ships also not that well possible during winter. Kerch port freezes up. Air is too expensive. The earliest a bridge on sea can be made is 2018. Making a land bridge is only long term viable solution. If Putin does not make a land bridge then people in Crimea would feel neglected.



Black sea ports are supposed to be navigable all year. Why Russia cannot supply Crimea by cargo ships?

The only problem is rail transit. That may stop in winter.



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 10:50 PM
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a reply to: GargIndia

Kerch strait is barely 2-3 kms wide but it does freeze up in winter.

Supplying by sea is ok for the regular items, but people ferries will have to take a longer route when bypassing the frozen Kerch strait. Ferry route to Crimea all year long is not an economically viable option.

Germans had veryhard time building a bridge in WWII. Russians never tried until Crimea issue this year. Any planned bridge is going to be undersea tunnel costing $6B. Sometime Russians just throw money away trying to copy the west. In this case, copying the Euro Tunnel from UK to France.



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 10:57 PM
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a reply to: kitzik

He is a Russian citizen and was not elected as the defacto leader of Crimea. He was self appointed to that position and only after armed pro russian / russian forces arrested and removed the government of Crimea.

As I stated to another poster trying to make a claim based on a source that is not supported by that source does not work. Your argument would be like trying to justify Gandhi seizing the position of Russia President because some time back he served in the Duma.

It does not work that way.



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 11:00 PM
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a reply to: victor7

Build a rope-way. 2-3 km distance can be covered by a rope-way. Just build two towers at both ends and build a closed loop rope-way.

Better way is underground tunnel for heavy rail connectivity.

Give the construction of tunnel to the Chinese.

edit on 30-9-2014 by GargIndia because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 11:01 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

You said


The flaw in your argument is the fact the Prime Minister, Sergey Aksyonov, is a Russian citizen - NOT Ukrainian.


I pointed out that it is very unlikely.
Clearly he wasn't loyal Ukraninan citizen, but 99% that he was such at time of February 2014.



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 11:02 PM
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originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: Xcathdra

You said


The flaw in your argument is the fact the Prime Minister, Sergey Aksyonov, is a Russian citizen - NOT Ukrainian.


I pointed out that it is very unlikely.
Clearly he wasn't loyal Ukraninan citizen, but 99% that he was such at time of February 2014.

And whether you find it unlikely is not relevant since he is a Russian citizen.



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 11:02 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: kitzik

He is a Russian citizen and was not elected as the defacto leader of Crimea. He was self appointed to that position and only after armed pro russian / russian forces arrested and removed the government of Crimea.

As I stated to another poster trying to make a claim based on a source that is not supported by that source does not work. Your argument would be like trying to justify Gandhi seizing the position of Russia President because some time back he served in the Duma.

It does not work that way.


A lot of Ukrainians are Russian citizens. I see no problem with a Russian citizen running for office in Ukraine.

Have you ever heard of "dual" citizenship?



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 11:05 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




And whether you find it unlikely is not relevant since he is a Russian citizen.


He hold dual citizenship, and you twisted facts, saying he wasn't Ukranian.

Admit your little mistake once .




As I stated to another poster trying to make a claim based on a source that is not supported by that source does not work


I don't understand what you wanted to say, the source I provided about Aksyonov on ballot to Ukranian Rada is official Ukranian info page .
edit on 30-9-2014 by kitzik because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 11:18 PM
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a reply to: GargIndia

Russia does not allow dual citizenship with the exception of a few of the kerplakistan countries.

Secondly, we are talking about Ukraine in terms of holding office. The issue is the claim that the Crimean population asked for help. The issue is the fact those who asked for help were in fact Russian citizens who seized the Crimean government.

The request was baseless and further undermines the argument about Crimea and Russia.

He is not a Ukrainian citizen and even refused to swear allegiance to the Ukraine government when the USSR collapsed. He was born in Moldova. He seized the Crimean government, installed himself and then turned Crimea over to Russia.



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 11:22 PM
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a reply to: kitzik

Russia does not recognize dual citizenship.

Russian dual nationality Laws.


Dual citizenship treaties[edit]

The following international treaties contain rules related to dual citizenship:
Treaty between the Russian Federation and the Republic of Tajikistan (1995)
Treaty between the Russian Federation and the Republic of Turkmenistan (1993), the current status of which is in dispute

The Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation, and Mutual Security between the Russian Federation and the Republic of Armenia,[12] signed December 29, 1991, grants the right to acquire citizenship of both Russia and Armenia to the citizens of Russia and Armenia.

As the Russian Federation is the successor state to the Soviet Union, some Soviet treaties on dual citizenship are still in force. For this reason, the Convention on the Nationality of Married Women is in force.

European Convention on Nationality[edit]

The European Convention on Nationality has been signed but not ratified by the Russian Federation. It is binding to the extent of the provisions of the Vienna Convention on International Treaties. Domestic citizenship legislation is usually considered to conform to the convention.



Ukrainian nationality Laws -

Dual citizenship[edit]

Ukrainian law currently does not recognise dual citizenship.[5] However there are citizens of Ukraine who hold dual citizenship.[6][7] Various estimates put the number of Ukrainians with more than one passport from 300,000 to a few million.[8] Within Ukrainian boundaries Ukrainian citizens who also hold multiple citizenships are considered to be solely Ukrainian citizens.[9]

“ If a citizen of Ukraine acquires citizenship (nationality) of another state or states, in legal relations with Ukraine, the person is recognized as a citizen of Ukraine only. If a foreigner acquires the citizenship of Ukraine, then in legal relations with Ukraine, the person is recognized as a citizen of Ukraine only... ”

—Article 2. Law on citizenship of Ukraine.

again, he was born in Moldova and holds Russian citizenship.


On February 8, 2014, the Rada proposed a bill to criminalize the act of holding two citizenships. [10]





edit on 30-9-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 11:22 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




Russia does not allow dual citizenship with the exception of a few of the kerplakistan countries.


Lie.

When you start checking your info before posting ?




Within Ukrainian boundaries Ukrainian citizens who also hold multiple citizenships are considered to be solely Ukrainian citizens.


And this what is important.
edit on 30-9-2014 by kitzik because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 11:31 PM
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originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: Xcathdra




Russia does not allow dual citizenship with the exception of a few of the kerplakistan countries.


Lie.

When you start checking your info before posting ?

You skipped over the part where the law applies. Go back and read it in its entirety instead of only picking out parts that don't support your position (even though you think it does).


RT News - MPs suggest new restrictions for Russians with foreign citizenship

Moscow Times - Russia Targets 'Traitorous' Dual Citizenship Holders

Use common sense.
edit on 30-9-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 11:36 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Do you understand what is suggestion ? It is not a law before it is passed.
And second , this suggestion is about this


Lawmakers have prepared two bills that forbid senior state officials having dual citizenship and make it a criminal offence to conceal one.






You skipped over the part where the law applies. Go back and read it in its entirety instead of only picking out parts that don't support your position (even though you think it does).



I can't argue when you don't make your point exactly. And I have info not only from incomplete wikipedia but can also read Russian constitutuon.
edit on 30-9-2014 by kitzik because: (no reason given)


Anyway you are drifting too far away from Aksyonov.
edit on 30-9-2014 by kitzik because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 11:42 PM
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a reply to: kitzik

Ukraine's parliament to toughen up dual citizenship laws - February 9th 2010


The Verkhovna Rada, Ukraine's parliament, is intending to enhance mechanisms to fight against double citizenship in the country. The draft lawprovides amendments to the law on citizenship of Ukraine. According to the draft adopted in the first reading those holding passports of other states will be obliged to inform Ukrainian authorities - local executive bodies, or special Ukrainian body for citizenship or its local branch, or a diplomatic mission of Ukraine abroad - about the fact of returning the passports of foreign states.

Failure to meet this requirement can be a reason for denying such persons Ukrainian citizenship.

These amendments will expand the powers of the Ukrainian state bodies and bodies of local-self-government in the questions of Ukrainian citizenship.

The Verkhovna Rada is intending to introduce restrictions on persons with double citizenship concerning their right to civil service, military service, and other services.

The new amendments will also restrict persons who have committed crimes from obtaining of Ukrainian citizenship under simplified procedure.

The Constitution of Ukraine bans double citizenship.


If you don't like the dual citizenship ban then take it up with Yanukovych.



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 11:43 PM
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a reply to: kitzik

The laws were passed in Russia.

The illegal PM of Crimea could not hold that position if he is not a Russian citizen.

You following now?

He could not hold that position if he were not Russian. he could not hold that position if he were a dual citizen.

Ukraine law does not allow dual citizenship.


edit on 30-9-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-9-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 11:49 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

The laws are changing, put attention to the timeline.

Aksyonov was resident of Crimea in february 2014, he was also member of Crimean parliament, he was also Ukranian citizen and he was also Russian citizen ( but for Ukranians only his Ukranian citizenship what matters as long as he on the soil of Ukraine)



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 11:52 PM
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a reply to: kitzik

He is not a Ukrainian citizen. No matter how you try and spin it, he is not a Ukrainian citizen. Other "leaders" in areas of South / East Ukraine are also Russian citizens and not Ukrainian.

Its one of MANY reasons that goes towards Russia invading ukraine.

they did the same in Georgia.

they are doing the same in moldova.

On this note I need to head out for tonight.. I will come back and debate with you when I come back.
edit on 30-9-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 11:55 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




He is not a Ukrainian citizen.


I think he is not now, he may be even charged with treason.
But he was in February 2014.

And I'm not discussing Moldova or Georgia, we are discussing solely Aksyonov.
Did i said anything about Moldova or Georgia ?




Other "leaders" in areas of South / East Ukraine are also Russian citizens and not Ukrainian.


I wish you were International lawer, you accidentally de facto annexed South East Ukraine to Russia, by claiming that they are Russian citizens lol
edit on 1-10-2014 by kitzik because: (no reason given)




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