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Drowning witness: Police stopped men from trying to save woman trapped in car

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posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 09:36 AM
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El Paso police said they were called out to the intersection of Diana Drive and Vulcan Avenue just after 6:30 Monday morning due to reports of a vehicle that had gone into a drainage ditch overflowing with floodwaters.

A witness told KFOX14 that police stopped several men from trying to save the victim.

The story about police telling men to leave was backed up by several people who live on Vulcan Avenue right next to where the drowning took place. However, KFOX14 cannot confirm if the woman was dead or alive at that time.

"There were ambulances, there was the Fire Department, helicopters, airplanes, I said 'Oh, my God, they're not doing anything about it,' so she passed away," said the witness.


Drowning witness: Police stopped men from trying to save woman trapped in car

I did a search and came up with nothing. Please delete if it has been covered.

What does everybody think??? On the one hand I can see the police not wanting others to get involved for fear of them being hurt or killed. But on the other hand somebody’s life is already at stake.

I understand that police can be liable for accidental deaths on their watch. But if someone wants to put there life at risk shouldn’t that be the individuals call. Not the cops.

If it was my friend or family member in that situation you bet I would be trying to rescue them. I would say to hell with police. If anything I would of thought the cops would jump in and try to help. Not stand around for an hour and threaten others.

Once again we seem to have more and more police officers more concerned with their safety and wellbeing than others.

What ever happened to "To protect and serve"

I guess police are to busy training military tactics than rescue tactics.

edit on 26-9-2014 by PraetorianAZ because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-9-2014 by PraetorianAZ because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 09:59 AM
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a reply to: PraetorianAZ

The only proper response to officers barring ones way, when one is about the righteous business of saving a life, is to calmly and carefully explain that there are only two ways for this situation to develop. Either, the police step aside and let the public do what the police should, which is risk their lives to save those in need of help, or get their faces kicked in for getting in the way.



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: PraetorianAZ

Okay, "shots fired" in a crappy restaurant.. A guy comes up and says "My girlfriend is a waitress in that restaurant.." Are the cops supposed to let the hero go rescue His gf? No.

You read the part about "RAGING FLOODWATERS"? read this as "unsafe" The 'rubber neckers' shouldn't be anywhere near the scene of an accident and/or possible extraction.. What if any victim(s) need to be airlifted out and the medvac help can't land, why do You think? Bunch of folks that think they know 'the job' better..

instead of typing away at an anonymous message board why not try and change things from w/in?



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:16 AM
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More outrage porn involving police... on ATS? No way!

Can we just add some logic and reason here for a brief moment?

Look at the picture in the link... the car is pressed up against the back wall of the canal, which indicates that the water was flowing into and under the bridge.

The canal was "overflowing with flood waters". These canals are designed to channel water out of an area to prevent it from accumulating, thus they can be expected to have a relatively very high flow rate, especially during a flood when they are pushed to their capacity. Those calmish looking waters in the photo can actually be moving extremely fast, faster than any Olympic swimmer could ever hope swim, probably several times faster.

And who knows where that tunnel actually leads... it could go out the other side of the bridge, or it might have turns in it, or debris stuck underneath it, etc.

Some random person jumping in would put them at extreme risk, even if they were highly trained in water rescue. The conditions in those canals are deadly, even to those experienced with them, especially if the canal is shaped where the bottom is narrower than the top, meaning that a potentially intense and undetectable undertow can develop.

Cops always have had the responsibility of stopping people from entering obviously dangerous situations, and this situation, a flood canal that was flooding with a high flow rate and unknown debris status, was extremely dangerous.

But it doesnt matter, if the cops let the tough guys who probably could barely doggy paddle all jump in like lemmings and get sucked under the bridge and snagged on a dead tree trunk or something, or sucked into the undertow, We would still see the whining about how the cops did NOT stop them from entering an obviously very dangerous situation.


edit on 9/26/2014 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:31 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Tough internet talk. Id love to see you try that though; kick in multiple cops faces and then, if successful (unlikely), jump into a flooding drainage channel and get immediately sucked to the bottom and never seen again


I only ask that you be sure to have a friend record your escapade and then upload it to youtube, both for lulz, and as an example of how thinking with your balls instead of your brain can easily get one beaten up, or killed.


edit on 9/26/2014 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:34 AM
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God forbid you guys ever have a friend or family member or even yourselves trapped in a car and everybody just stands around and watches you die.

I’m a Militia member and a member of SAR here in Arizona. There is no way I would ever let another human being drown, burn, starve, dehydrate, bleed, suffocate, or go without help on my watch.

Guess that’s the difference between us.

So don’t sweat it JimNasium when I am not working or spending time with my family I am out there trying to make a difference and help strangers in need. Can you say the same?

edit on 26-9-2014 by PraetorianAZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: PraetorianAZ



I guess police are to busy training military tactics than rescue tactics.



Yes...This is actually a true statement. The good news...I thought I had a problem with paranoia...these people are super paranoid which makes me feel better.

I own no guns and have no bug out plans. However I can spot Agents on every level in the surrounding environment from Military down to the bubba turd Vigilante Gangstalkers that are working to make an extra buck. Plus+ I can tell if its a News Helo, Rescue Helo, LEO Helo, or Military helo at 2 miles out. I'm badass bourne(born) like that I'm afraid.

edit on 26-9-2014 by superluminal11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: CaticusMaximus

I would rather get my face caved in, and then drown, than watch someone else drown having done nothing to save them. Put another way, if I died trying, then that would be the right thing to do, and my concern about the situation, would cease right about the time that my heart stopped. But if I did nothing, then I would not want to live the rest of my life wishing I had acted.

Its not a matter of thinking with ones balls. Its a matter of knowing right from wrong, knowing that it is always right to help others, and always wrong not to bother to try.



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 11:08 AM
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originally posted by: CaticusMaximus
Tough internet talk. Id love to see you try that though; kick in multiple cops faces and then, if successful (unlikely), jump into a flooding drainage channel and get immediately sucked to the bottom and never seen again


I only ask that you be sure to have a friend record your escapade and then upload it to youtube, both for lulz, and as an example of how thinking with your balls instead of your brain can easily get one beaten up, or killed.




No offense Cactus, but the rear of the car was only a few feet from the edge of the culvert and the drivers side was pressed up against and wedged against the under-street drain. One could of simply stepped off of the street and on to the hood.

I grew up on rivers and know how dangerous they can be and agree with you 1000% that in general people need to give them a wide berth, but this case appears to be a relatively safe water rescue (safe at least when compared to other scenarios)



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 11:42 AM
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a reply to: Lipton

How did no one step onto the back of the car and bust out the rear window?

Yes I agree that there are many situations where common sense dictates stay out of the way. This one, however, doesn't seem to be one of those times. Even at the height of the waters, there is a fence right there to attach to while stepping onto the vehicle and busting out a window. Standing around for over an hour doing nothing but watching just seems heartless.



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 02:17 PM
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A hero doesn't ask for permission to save someones life.

The cops and all other first responders who stood by should be fired because they're not in the business of helping people, obviously. Send them on down the road!



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: PraetorianAZ

Being medically retired from a Ca. police dep't. "YES", I can. And before that I was a LEO at the Federal Level. So point Me in the direction of another thread where I'm qualified to provide an opinion. Isn't that the purpose of a public "message board"? To provide opinions?

Somebody who has trained for extraction work? "Maybe" some 'Yahoo' who is driving by and was 3rd at the State Meet in high school 28 years ago? NEVER.

Have a better day.

P.S. Instead of sticking up for other "keyboard commandos" (besides Your own Self) why don't You and the rest of the "militia' get over and keep an eye on that porous border We keep hearing about?

P.S.S. Oh, I also train dogs for Certified Search & Rescue organizations from 12 States, Canada and 31 other Countries..

I also detect You're One of those guys that 'needs' the last word, so PLEASE have at it...



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: JimNasium

Honestly in an argument of opinion what the point of having the last word? You have your words I have mine.

P.S. My militia and I have way better things to do in our community then to look for illegal’s. That’s border patrols job.

P.S.S. I never said you were not qualified to have an opinion. I just said our opinions differ.

P.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S. I am detecting you are the kind of guy that always has to be right in any argument. Even in an argument of opinion. So PLEASE good sir you have at it...




edit on 27-9-2014 by PraetorianAZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 02:42 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: PraetorianAZ

The only proper response to officers barring ones way, when one is about the righteous business of saving a life, is to calmly and carefully explain that there are only two ways for this situation to develop. Either, the police step aside and let the public do what the police should, which is risk their lives to save those in need of help, or get their faces kicked in for getting in the way.


I go for the second option. Cops are always in the way.
edit on 27-9-2014 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: PraetorianAZ
I was a beach lifeguard in my younger and fitter days but never had to make a 'real' rescue on duty as good observation and intervention always prevented it. But a few years ago (much older and less fit) at an unattended beach I saw a young lad dragged out in a riptide and going under, so instinctively I swam out to him and towed him back along the coast. I'll be honest I was scared half way through the swim back thinking I might not make it in the rough conditions but it all ended ok.

If I had been at the incident in the OP I would have assessed the situation and made my own decision regarding the risk of attempting a rescue or not. Cops are not experts in all danger situations, and if I thought my knowledge of a given situation was superior to the attending cop/s then I would make my own decision regarding protection of life or not.

I understand the formal 'cover your back legally' instructions that X or Y is not safe, but if I had a better take on any given situation than a cop then I would make my own decision and run past if need be.
Cops are not experts in everything, and it is lame if they portray themselves as such.


edit on 27-9-2014 by grainofsand because: Typo



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 02:55 PM
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To quote someone else, "Oh look. Another 'I hate the cops thread.'"



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 03:10 PM
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I had an experience in flood water where the FD in a boat passed on helping. They had to check on someone because they were dispatched and then said they would move on to the next call.

A few of us 'regular' people rescued the elderly from the water for the next few hours. Probably worked out better anyway.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 03:26 PM
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a reply to: Lipton
Thank you for sharing these images! Honestly, C-Maximus above did have me questioning the logistics, but your images do show that a rescue attempt could obviously been attempted, logically! Once again, pictures are worth more than a thousand words to deny ignorance.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 03:32 PM
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a reply to: Restricted
I don't hate cops, and I don't love them either, they are a necessary tool in society in my eyes. I think of them as I do security in a nightclub.

Cops are not experts on all danger situations though...they are experts in the latest official risk assessment advice.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 03:42 PM
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she could easily have been rescued. if not for the stupid cops and timid citizens.



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