Breaking the Strong Delusion: Our Morality vs. God's Morality

a reply to: graphuto

Do you, or do you not, support genocide ordered by YHWH? Yes\No?

Reminder:

gen·o·cide
ˈjenəˌsīd/
noun
the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.
synonyms: mass murder, mass homicide, massacre;

Thank you for pointing out what murder is according to the text. As you can we see, mass murder is a synonym for genocide. With this new gem you posted, does this mean YHWH violated his own law with the multiple genocides ordered?

Again, thank you for proving the OP's point.

a reply to: Not Authorized

What kind of Bible believing Christian would I be if I didn't? Not one. Again, there is a difference between killing someone and murdering them. You knew the answer before you asked. I just think you assumed that I, as many other watered down Christians who don't believe the Bible, would back down at the last minute. Not a chance.

To be clear, I don't accept your definition of God ordered genocide to be called murder. Righteous judgement and justice is not murder. If someone is tried in court and given the death penalty for killing someone, is the guy that pulls the switch a murderer?

Thankfully, God has completed the work with Israel that he needed to in order to bring forth Jesus Christ. No need for any more priests, or judges, or kings. No need for any more genocide. Except, of course, when He destroys the world and billions of people in it in the end.

Also, it's quite disingenuous of you to insist that it's genocide, have me agree, all the while telling you that I believe the killing was justified, making it not murder, and then running to the dictionary to tell me "genocide and murder are the same thing!"

Quite disingenuous indeed.

Go ahead and have the last word. I don't feel the need to respond to this thread any longer. I will admit that it's hard not to, but I'm going to try my best.

a reply to: graphuto

The commandment is "Thou shalt not commit murder" not "thou shalt not kill"

The commandment is "Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor" not "thou shalt not lie"

it sounds to me like the commandments were designed to allow violations in favor of god but not in opposition of him. aka loopholes. "this is illegal to do unless it furthers my agenda in some way". thats what we are calling the model of morality?

a reply to: TzarChasm

You said this better than i could have. I never connected it that way before.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: TzarChasm

You said this better than i could have. I never connected it that way before.

ive been told i would make an excellent lawyer. i prefer to use my power of smartassery for the good of mankind.

a reply to: graphuto

I do not want the last word. You can have it. I have no need for it anymore. I said what needed to be said.

I hope one day you realize all the words spoken here, were for you. What was said, was for the betterment of the humankind and our condition. One to give us all hope and a future.

May the True God, bless you. Abundantly.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
Could you elaborate further as to YHWH'S moral failures?

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
Certainly. I've been working on that actually. Should have it in here by the end of the day (PST). I'll show more of what are, in my opinion, significant moral failings. We'll ask the question, "Does the punishment fit the crime?"

That obviously didn't happen. I intended to post more on the topic but things became busy and I haven't worked out everything I want to say in a new post just yet. My apologies for the delay. The rest of the week is going to be busy for me as well so it may get pushed back a bit longer.
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a reply to: graphuto

Also, it's quite disingenuous of you to insist that it's genocide, have me agree, all the while telling you that I believe the killing was justified, making it not murder

the killing was justified because it was god, not because of any TRIAL BY JURY. god is judge, jury, executioner, ergo DICTATOR.

and what do we think about dictators people?

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Quite simple, if God created you, then your actions are traceable to God. So, if you killed a kitten, then, because God created you, the reason that kitten was killed was because you had existed in the first place, and that is attributable to God. Furthermore, he also created the kitten and because it is his creation, he has (supposedly) the right to determine what shall happen to it.

Lets make up a verse and reiterate:

"If a pesky feline shall mark you with its talons, ye shall pull its tail and poke out its eyes, lest ye contract a fever."

Reaction: God justifies cruelty to animals! You can't blame a defenceless kitten for scratching you!

Ah, but God created both you and the kitten, and thus he is commanding you to pull its tail because he had made it that way! By pulling its tail you are cured from the fever!

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

by the way that is a badass video.

a reply to: graphuto

Thankfully, God has completed the work with Israel that he needed to in order to bring forth Jesus Christ. No need for any more priests, or judges, or kings. No need for any more genocide.

Let me get this straight.

God, in all its omnipotence, needed to commit untold amounts of genocide in order to make sure that Jesus' genetics were just right, so that he could, what, rise from the dead? But, even though Jesus had the perfect human genome, he NEVER procreated, as God commanded all Hebrews to do.

AND, horray! God doesn't have to commit genocide any more, because he demonstrated, once, and for all, that the perfect human genome could exist, if not survive, even though he had kill off millions of people to accomplish it. That is, until the end of world, when this genetically perfect human being, who rose from the dead, returns to kill us all!

a reply to: windword

Don't forget the part about the rapist's right to free will being more important than the victim's right to remain unmolested.

Bump.

So it isn't an entirely pointless bump I will add some verses.

God's Willingness to Lie

"And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet." Ezekiel 14:9

"Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee." 1st Kings 22:23

And again in 2nd Chronicles 18:22:

"Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets."

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Great thread. You put a lot of time and effort into it and I stared the hell out of you for it. Your research and delivery of the info on it's own merit is quite impressive and complete but what I find makes it even more complete and honest is when you read it all including the reactions by many of the apologists who oppose it.

The lengths that some will go to in trying to defend what is clearly a position neither worthy nor capable of defense is very telling.

Well Done!!!

a reply to: mOjOm

I agree how did I miss this one?.
Gonna go through it tnr iam all tucked up in bed head full of scotch attempting to see and type...lol

a reply to: mOjOm

Thanks very much!

I suppose it helped being a former Christian familiar with scripture.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

The Christian God, is The God that Christ taught.

In Luke 6:35, Christ tells us that The Most High (God) is kind to the unthankful and evil. We are told that we should be merciful like Our Father (The Most High) is merciful (Luke 6:36).

Christ tells us what we should be doing in order to be considered "The Children of The Highest".

Matthew 5:44

- Love your enemies
- Bless those who curse you
- Do good to those who hate you
- Pray for those who despitefully use and persecute you

Luke 5:35

- Love your enemies
- Do good
- Lend hoping for nothing again (lend without expecting a return)

Matthew 5:9

- Be a peacemaker

I agree with all of this! I think OT god is not the same as be god of the CHRIST, I think he quoted OT to tbe pharasees to make certain poits, but was not the same god?