America is OBSESSED with race! Why?

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: finitedualities

Why do people claim the Civil War was fought over slavery? So funny how deep the propaganda and re-writing of history goes...

I know many Americans like to believe the Civil War was fought over 'states' rights'.

It was. It was fought over the right of states to determine whether slavery was legal in their territories, or not.

Wrong. The South wanted to form their own country per say, after Lincoln was elected, and the North didn't want that. So we fought over it. A family member of mine, my great, great grandfather, fought for the North.

a reply to: eisegesis

When you walk down the street and you see WWII veterans chuckling with a group of young Japanese kids you know it's not really that bad.

When you go to certain parts of town, yeah, terrible.

It's like everywhere else in the world and that poll reflects on the tolerant attitude most Americans have.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

Never wasted a thing? They were people. They didn't build cities, deforest entire areas and pollute the rivers, but some of them were certainly wasteful at times. They had war just like the rest of us. They had superstitions just like the rest of us, and they struggled with their humanity just like the rest of us.

The long march of history has been one of nomadic humans versus sedentary humans. Even some very prominent nomadic groups converted over and thrived thereafter. Cities have been very good for humankind, and they've softened us and reduced our aggressiveness to a large extent. Sure, we might not survive out in the wild anymore, but we are a domestic product of our civilization as much as any other type of livestock.

a reply to: marbles87

Because people keep bringing it up.

a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

Of course the Civil War was fought over 'other issues' besides slavery.

Do you think a bunch of slavedrivers was going to say, 'Hell, we're going to war because we want to keep driving slaves'?

a reply to: Astyanax

The same people who funded the Civil War funded the slave traders so their opinions don't matter as they're just slaves like the rest of the little people.

It's like wondering why the President did nothing before or after WWII when he knew there were plenty of Germans on LI (certain) that were sympathizing with the Nazis. Because higher politics rules the world not racism.

originally posted by: Astyanax
I should have thought it was obvious.

The USA is a society originally founded on the enslavement of one race by another, which then fought a civil war over slavery that almost tore the country in two. It is a society that has been through massive trauma because of racial issues. And 150 years after slavery was abolished, differences in economic and social attainment between the descendants of masters and the descendants of slaves remain huge.

How could America not be obsessed by race?

I think that this is absolutely true. I also think that we are at a point where we are becoming more integrated in the myriad of various internal cultural ways and that those current perceived differences are (as always) represented by the way that we wear those cultural affiliations on our faces. The visual highlights the "us' or "them" dynamic.

There is an uneasiness among many who fear losing their values or, if they are truly catastrophizing, their entire way of life. In the end I think that this continuous melding of cultures will do what it has always done; make for an rich, adaptable society that has more to bring to the table. Although, because we are what we are it may take generations for that integration to be more positive then negative. Call me a cynic, but I don't think that we can be truly unified in culture and purpose until we all start to look the same.

The next few generations are going to be a most fascinating shift to watch and I hope in the end, as we gain more and more in common in value systems, a sense of shared culture and in appearance many of these obsessions about race will simply drift away like smoke.

a reply to: James1982

And I guess modern day people who are upset with an overreaching federal government are all just racist wannabe-slave owners too.

There is no need to take what I say personally, though if the cap fits, by all means put it on.

If it was about slavery why didn't slavery get abolished in the North until after the fact?

Hang on a tick. Can I answer that along with this?

Yeahkeepwatchingme: America's first slave owner was a black man if I'm not mistaken. So why aren't most black people upset about that?

Do you both realize that, simply by knowing and stating these obscure and actually quite irrelevant facts, you are simply providing more evidence that the OP's contention is correct?

a reply to: OptimusCrime

The South wanted to form their own country per say

Why? There's the rub.

a reply to: Astyanax

There's not set fact on why. The North and South are still 2 totally different places even after slavery has been gone for generations. Southerners can smell Northerners a mile away. I drive from PA to FL once a year.

E2A: I'm not saying slavery wasn't a part of that but it wasn't the entire reason it started.

a reply to: Astyanax

By stating historical fact?

I hate racism in all forms but if society chooses to ignore certain facts (and it's not obscure at all, they simply choose to not inform people) but continue to divide themselves how is that justified?

America has divisions but they're ingrained in people's minds through the media. I rarely hear racism these days, except on the internet.

Divide and conquer. Them v them v them v them instead of unity and peace and true freedom.

a reply to: marbles87
people forget that theres only one race and thats the human race. While some idiots fight over skin colour the smart ones loot away.

a reply to: marbles87
America's past is racist. It hasn't set aside it's racist past or even tried to. That's why America is racist.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

The North and South are still 2 totally different places even after slavery has been gone for generations.

Yes. They are different because of slavery. The slaveholding South never became a modern industrialized nation, precisely because of its dependence on monoculture and slave labour. This had consequences for everything and everybody; it ensured, for example, that the white population was less racially mixed in the South than in the North, because there were few menial jobs that could be taken by poor immigrants from Europe; such work was all done by slaves. Slavery created an automatic aristocracy because that is what plantation culture always creates (it happened in my country, too, with British plantation owners and indentured labourers imported by the thousands from India — not technically slaves, but indistinguishable from slaves for all practical purposes). I could multiply examples, but I'm sure you see my point.

a reply to Yeahkeepwatchingme

(How am I helping prove the OP's point) by stating historical fact?

Pardon me if I have misunderstood you; I edited the quote to make it clear what it is I think you're saying.

Answer: because the knowledge of such minor, obscure historical facts (why did they wait till the Civil War was over before abolishing slavery in the North? What colour was the first slave-owner?) is evidence that the issue to which the facts speak forms a substantial part of the mental universe of Americans. Of course, if you aren't American, it's another matter altogether. But I think you are. You sound very American.

a reply to: Astyanax

Actually that's not all accurate.....Anthony Johnson a natural born Angolan was the first slave owner in what would become the US, he was granted this through a English court order. The cause of the Civil War is debatable. The rest of your statement is basically true.

OP I would say it is because TPTB and MSM feed the racial divide, most Americans could care less what color you are. But you wouldn't know that with the way MSM paints the scene.

a reply to: Astyanax

I'm beginning to think you just hate America and Americans with the way you word some of your responses. What are you really here to talk about?

a reply to: th3dudeabides

I don't think America is racist per se. It's just that I think the media who is driven by viewers has to determine the race of the people they are talking about. Example

"Phillip is a black West Philadelphia man who was recently pulled over for broken tail light"

In my view what the hell does someone's race have to do with a tail light.
It just seems weird to me that when the media says oh the race issues are coming to a boil and then they can't go five seconds without mentioning race. You see it in other groups as well even on here.

Is it really ingrained in us that we wish to see things happen to other races even though we have the same core nationality. And I mention America because we are aupposed to be solving the issues not solidifying them.

Hell I even find myself sucked into the race v race articles because how they word them.

If this is the case will we ever get over these ignorant issues and move on.

a reply to: th3dudeabides

I think it's unfair to claim that it hasn't tried to. I believe Americans — some Americans, certainly, both black and white — have tried very hard to set their racist past (and present) aside. As somebody pointed out earlier, no other Western country would tolerate a 'black' (in fact racially mixed) head of state.

Unfortunately, repairing the damage done by slavery, civil war and institutionalized oppression is not easy. It will be a very long time, if ever, before the work is completed. Meanwhile, Americans will continue to be obsessed by 'race'. They have no option; in fact, I think they have a duty to be obsessed by race — a human obligation, if you like.

a reply to: Astyanax

I was born in America and I see through its lies like every other country.

You shouldn't stereotype everybody, even if they disagree with you.

I have no idea who you are, where you're from or what color you are. But that doesn't change my opinion about you. I just view you as a fellow human being and we disagree on this issue.

As I stated I'm an American. But I'm not racist. If I was a racist, I personally would not share my bed with a half Pakistani woman which is what I'm currently doing.

Racism is divide and conquer. I'm an American, there's English people here, Canadians, continental Europeans. I'm sure they've encountered racism in their countries.

a reply to: Astyanax

Lol.....ever been to South Africa? They have been in a worse position than America.