The DIfference between the Spirit of God and the Spirit of the Lord Reveals Truth

I have a previous thread about the Lord of the Old Testament, I asked the question, "Who is the Lord?" This is the sequel to the first thread found there: Who is the LORD?

There are only a handful of references to the Spirit of God in the Bible. The Spirit of God is Ruach Elohim. Ruach is feminine and refers to the Holy Spirit of God. On the other side of the Old Testament, we have the Spirit of the Lord (Yahweh). Is there a difference? Yes, and I'll prove that they are different entities:

Exodus 35:31

Yahweh has filled Bezalel with the Ruach Elohim, making him highly skilled, resourceful, and knowledgeable in all trades.

Yahweh is the Lord in most Old Testament references, while Elohim is God. Rauch Elohim, by every reference, transforms men with goodness and is never seen as evil or willing to harm anyone. When we look at the Spirit of the Lord, we get a different story connected to evil, war, retribution, and many other undesirable traits.

Examine every reference to the Ruach Elohim (Spirit of God) in the Bible: Bible Gateway...Use the context button to see the larger verse set in context.

From the references, you will find one instance where the Spirit of God made Saul angry, then everyone was afraid of Yahweh.

1 Samuel 11:5-7 Names of God Bible (NOG)

5 Just then Saul was coming from the field behind some oxen. “Why are these people crying?” Saul asked. So they told him the news about the men of Jabesh. 6 When he heard this news, the Ruach Elohim came over him, and he became very angry. 7 Saul took a pair of oxen, cut them in pieces, and sent them by messengers throughout the territory of Israel with the following message: “This is what will be done to the oxen of anyone who doesn’t follow Saul and Samuel into battle.” So the people became terrified by Yahweh, and they came out united behind Saul.

Later in the same chapter:

13 But Saul said, “No one will be killed today, because today Yahweh saved Israel.”

In other references between Saul and David, the Ruach Elohim is seen working the truth between situations through prophecy and visions. Eventually, David gains victory over Saul.

In another reference, we find the Spirit of God referencing Yahweh by separate relationship"

2 Chronicles 15:1-3Names of God Bible (NOG)

15 The Ruach Elohim came to Azariah, son of Oded. 2 Azariah went to Asa and said to him, “Listen to me, Asa and all you men from Judah and Benjamin. Yahweh is with you when you are with him. If you will dedicate your lives to serving him, he will accept you. But if you abandon him, he will abandon you. 3 For a long time Israel was without the true Elohim, without a priest who taught correctly, and without Moses’ Teachings.

Here, the Spirit of God tells the tribe that they are abandoned by the true Elohim. Is this implying that being a friend of Yahweh causes the true Elohim to abandon them, or is it the other way around. Not being a friend to Yahweh is losing the true Elohim? From the overall context, it seems to be clear.

If you go back a chapter, there seems to be a connected relationship to Yahweh.

2 Asa did what Yahweh his Elohim considered good and right.

14:3 He got rid of the altars of foreign gods, broke down the sacred stones, and cut down the poles dedicated to the goddess Asherah. 4 He told the people of Judah to dedicate their lives to serving Yahweh Elohim of their ancestors and follow his teachings and commands. 5 He got rid of the illegal places of worship and the altars for incense in all the cities of Judah. The kingdom was at peace during his reign.

Now, go back and read chapter 15 in full context:

15 The Ruach Elohim came to Azariah, son of Oded. 2 Azariah went to Asa and said to him, “Listen to me, Asa and all you men from Judah and Benjamin. Yahweh is with you when you are with him. If you will dedicate your lives to serving him, he will accept you. But if you abandon him, he will abandon you. 3 For a long time Israel was without the true Elohim, without a priest who taught correctly, and without Moses’ Teachings. 4 But when they were in trouble, they turned to Yahweh Elohim of Israel. When they searched for him, he let them find him. 5 At those times no one could come and go in peace, because everyone living in the land had a lot of turmoil. 6 One nation crushed another nation; one city crushed another. Elohim had tormented them with every kind of trouble. 7 But you must remain strong and not become discouraged. Your actions will be rewarded.”

Keep in mind, this is the Ruach Elohim speaking about Yahweh. They were without the TURE Elohim, and in the absence, Yahweh could be found. Around him, nothing but trouble.

Here is my point. If you search Spirit of God from Bible Gateway, you always get good intentions. If you search Spirit of the Lord, you get war and evil. Here is a good example:

Judges 3:10
The Spirit of the Lord came on him, so that he became Israel’s judge and went to war.

1 Samuel 16:14
Now the Spirit of the Lord had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented him.

Take a look at every reference here to the Spirit of the Lord: Spirit of the Lord

Take a look at every reference to the Spirit of God (Ruach Elohim). Spirit of God

What is the difference? In my opinion, Elohim (Spirit of God) is raising a Son. The Son is Yahweh. Why do we not see Yahweh in the New Testament? God finally said to the Son that he was well pleased with him. When he did, the Spirit of God descended on Jesus as a dove (Peace). Why? Yahweh was humbled and acknowledged the true Father God. Why did he have to pay for the sins of mankind? Read the Old Testament. Yahweh proclaimed Himself to be the only God. The true God humbled him.

By this, we forgive our enemies. Who was our enemy and now Redeemer, paying the penalty for the fall of mankind? Yahweh, the Son of God.

Two reasons not to blame the Redeemer:

1) 1 Corinthians 10 - For we, who are many, are ONE loaf. We are all the Son of God, or the body below. He is our Head above, at the Right Hand of God.

2) Job 19

25 I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[e] in[f] my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.”

Matthew 7:2

For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

You judge yourself. To all those who have bashed the Lord of the OT, you are really judging yourself. He redeemed creation and now sits at the right hand of God the Father and Holy Spirit of God. Salvation from here comes through Him.

1 Jn. 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God...

I wanted to post the entire first part of 1 John 4, but ran out of space. This is the last reference to the Spirit of God in the entire Bible.

4 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

What is the test? Acknowledging Jesus came in the flesh to pay for the error. It's belief that the payment and penalty was made for us by Him. The one who is IN you is greater than the one in the world. That's the Spirit of God, the Ruach Elohim.

The Holy Spirit of God the Father. In Genesis 1, these are the ones that said, let US make man in OUR own image.

Soak this in:

Is it not from the mouth of the Most High That both good and bad come forth?" Lamentations 3:38

a reply to: gorsestar

No, it isn't. God is perfectly Light and there is no darkness within him (1 John 1:5). Evil comes from the false god who is 'half' light and 'half' dark; 'half' good and 'half' evil; that is how the deception happens.

a reply to: AlephBet

Stopped reading this after the second paragraph. No need to reply because I will not be returning to read it. You should be happy that you don't live in the Middle East.

You would be stoned to death for blasphemy. Half truths, and lies mixed with truth is what satan does.

a reply to: [post=18457575]arpgme

A better translation of the quoted passage reads: Does not the Most High send both calamity and good?

In an abstract sense, good and evil can take many forms and blur lines in some instances yet, in the context of the Bible it is clear which quality our characters assume. Let's deviate and examine good and evil from a morality perspective then return to biblical interpretation (I believe you and Aleph-Bet will benefit from this). In order for morality to exist our existence has to be both total and plural to set the conditions of our experience. That is, if I rear end you with my car your state is dependent upon mine. Now while car accidents aren't immoral you see how the example shows that I, the driver still actively caused an unwanted circumstance. Your reaction I assume would be shock or anger because that reaction exists in a priori in your sub consciousness mind that is interconnected through us all. You know I didn't intentionally mean to rear end you. A priori is like a catalog of experience where morality comes from. That's my philosophical view.

Biblically speaking, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone back in those times who didn't fear god. If you sin and get angry at being punished who are you to question the divine? You fail to see the mystery the messiah spoke about. He created light and darkness for they must both exist. the mystery is Resurrection. Who would've known they were holding the looking glass backwards. Indeed it is backwards you see the scriptures had to be written for he who was already in Heaven to fulfill them. John the Baptist saw the vision on the island of Patmos 96
ad from end to beginning the opposite way Moses saw it at mt. Sinai. It's the reflexive property of everything it is the I Am.

a reply to: AlephBet

Ruach Elohim may be denoting the feminine characteristic of God. Since i believe God is both male and female like you.

However i don't think the Holy Spirit mentioned In the New Testament is necessarily the same as Ruach Elohim.

In the NT the Holy Spirit seems to be the same Spirit of Christ who comes to teach his followers.

Here is a link that provides more clarity to what i am saying.

www.hebrew-streams.org...

Add - Jesus Christ claimed to be the light, I believe in Genesis, if you notice Ruach Elohim appears before the light. So Rauch Elohim must be a feminine expression for God.

Does that make the Holy Spirit the feminine expression of Christ?

Is the "The light", Christ Jesus in the masculine
and the Holy Spirit in the feminine? Both characteristics of "The Light" which is a metaphor for spirit and love.

If this is the case Elohim is masculine and Rauch Elohim feminine for God the father/mother. This is simply how the scriptures denote the masculine and feminine characteristics of the angels in heaven, with both male and female "names".

I would appreciate your opinion.

2nd Add - If this line of reasoning is valid then the Spirit of the Lord is the spirit of Yahweh in the OT and not Rauch Elohim, which is what you already concluded.

Father - Elohim, Rauch Elohim and a few other names are given for God the father.
&
Son - Jesus Christ, Yahweh Elohim, Spirit of the Lord, Holy Spirit, or the Light, and a few other names are given for the son.

a reply to: AlephBet

I began to notice this a while back but have never been able to see it complete. I just kept seeing how the duality of the people in the book would change from page to page and i attributed it to being seperate people. It makes sense slowly in my mind. Everytime another piece fits it opens the door to spot other pieces that have to be examined too.

a reply to: sacgamer25

Can we attribute these textual differences to the morhposyntax of the Bible? For instance sons of god appears a handful of times most starkly in Deut. 32:8 when Yahweh divides the nations up after the flood. Some translations read:

"When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when He separated the sons of Adam, He set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel."

Here this would not work as Israel did not exist at the time. The Qumran provides 'bene ha elohim' the sons of god which makes more sense imo. The same exact phrase is used in Genesis 6:2 when the 'watchers' took human wives and created the Nephilim giants. Job 1:6 is also curious as Satan is called one of the sons of Elohim. Here's a list of mentions: Deut. 32:8, Job 1:6, Job 38:7, Psalm 29:1, Genesis 6:2. The Deuteronimists appear to have deliberately redacted this passage to reinforce a monotheistic theme. This proves that the bible was not entirely ghost written by god.

Maybe Alephbet's problems with the spirit of god are just contextual issues?

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u
a reply to: AlephBet

Stopped reading this after the second paragraph. No need to reply because I will not be returning to read it. You should be happy that you don't live in the Middle East.

You would be stoned to death for blasphemy. Half truths, and lies mixed with truth is what satan does.

Do you disagree with the names of God Bible or the fact that here are different names? Clearly, the Trinity is Father (Elohim), Holy Spirt (Ruach Elohim) and Son. Who do you suspect Yahweh to be if not the Son of God?

Luke 3 records Son of God as forming Adam. Colossians 1:15 says that everything was formed by the Son of God. Who formed Adam in Genesis 2? Yahweh.

If we have been reading the Bible incorrectly for all these years, then it's high time we read it correctly. I'm must trying to figure this out like anyone. You will have trouble painting me as false or disingenuous. I preach the Son of God (Christ) risen and coming in the flesh. If you have trouble with the content of this thread, then argue the subject. Don't judge me.

a reply to: gorsestar

I agree with what you are saying and I see this as God's intent from the beginning, but the facts remain. We were innocent before having a knowledge of good and evil. Yahweh proclaimed himself to be the only God when this is clearly not the case. Elohim from Genesis 1 is at least the Father and Holy Spirit. It may very well be the Son also, but we have no way of knowing this. Luke 3 clearly calls the Son of God Adam's maker. Colossians 1 clearly says the Son of God was born. Adam was formed. We can eliminate Adam as the Son of God in favor of the one that was the pattern and archetype for the entire universe. Adam fell due to the error of Yahweh. The Son of God becoming humbled in the NT is then exemplified when the Father says he is well pleased. The Ruach Elohim the descends on him with a dove of peace, signifying the same dove of the flood. Baptism is what was happening, symbolizing 1 Peter 3, when Peter states that baptism is symbolism for the flood, which now saves you.

It's a cleansing from the Mother's work as Ruach Elohim and the Father's work as Elohim. The Son can only be one entity from Aleph to Tav.

a reply to: sacgamer25

If this is the case Elohim is masculine and Rauch Elohim feminine for God the father/mother. This is simply how the scriptures denote the masculine and feminine characteristics of the angels in heaven, with both male and female "names".

I would appreciate your opinion.

Yes. I think you are right on the money. Aleph Bet (Father) and Aleph Mem (Mother) are the same as the Elohim and Ruach Elohim. It is clear that the Spirit of God is only mentioned a few times. You can search them all from the NIV or NOG. Elohim is shown countless times, while Yahweh Elohim is seen on and off through the story. In all cases I have see, they are distinct characters. Isaiah 53 is a good example.

Note that Yahweh is not mentioned even once in the New Testament. It is his new name (and old) of Adonai and Yeshua. A theologian would say they are all names for the same God, but clearly, the Bible makes a differentiation between God the Father, the Spirit and the Son. The mistake was lumping them all into one and creating paradox and contradiction.

a reply to: gorsestar

I have a names of God Bible coming in the mail in the next few days. Once I get it, I am going to read it from cover to cover using this new paradigm of thought as I go. As I read, I play to make threads noting my progress. To me, this is the clue I have been waiting for. It connects each and every story to me clearly. For instance, Ephesians 3 now makes so much more sense. The mystery they all talk about it the reason for the Gospel. It's a much larger work than we are really able to see yet, but this delineation of Father, Mother and Son now allows us to see a broader picture of what is really going on. It also gives us a way to see loving enemies and doing good to those who persecute. Who was the adversary and accuser of mankind in the entire Old Testament? What is being asked of us by loving enemies? Who was the main enemy of mankind?

It's clear, to me at least, that education would have do so much more for mankind than wars and genocide. Love is 360 degrees opposite judgment and punishment. Ask any teacher which works better to motivate students.

a reply to: AlephBet

I suggest you say three fold Instead of trinity from now on. Yahweh is threefold yet a unity. For example, isn't the tabernacle one? Wouldn't you say the disciples were one? A congregation is a body of one. You see our elohim has 3 principle parts like the tabernacle but it is still one as a whole. I assume you've been over this concept before but where's your problem in It, the syntax? Read my latter post about th bible being ghost written their are issue I admit.

You also reminded me about a book I got about 10 page in cAlled Queen Aleph-Bet. I wish I could find that!

Clearly the spirit of God is the Holy Spirit and the spirit of God and the father created mankind in the image of them.

Genesis 1:26-27New International Version (NIV)

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

The Lord Creates Adam but mankind is already created and Adam will become the lords people and fulfill the gospels and in John 1 -18 explains what I mean, this explains away the incest debate people keep bringing up on here.

Genesis 2:7

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.


The Word Became Flesh

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

a reply to: WarriorOfLight96

The Holy Spirit is the light.

Genesis 1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.a 2The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the SPIRIT OF GOD (RAUCH ELOHIM) was hovering over the surface of the waters.

3Then God said, “Let there be light (HOLY SPIRIT),” and there was light. 4And God saw that the light (HOLY SPIRIT) was good.

Understand that the Holy Spirit is the light, Jesus is the light, Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

Clearly God is light, their is no darkness in him and his spirit is present before he creates his son, the light, the Holy Spirit, the Christ.

Colossians 1
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

The Holy Spirit is the light by wich and through wich all things were made. The firstborn of all creation.

Genesis 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.a 2The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the SPIRIT OF GOD (RAUCH ELOHIM) was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3Then God said, “Let there be light (HOLY SPIRIT),” and there was light. 4And God saw that the light (HOLY SPIRIT) was good.

The Holy Spirit is the breath of the father and an awesome friend, like my wife I met for the first time, she grows with me and knows who I am, brings life to me each passes day and like that the holy spirit is and you are describing the birth of Yeshau "the light and all things made for him".

originally posted by: WarriorOfLight96

Genesis 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.a 2The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the SPIRIT OF GOD (RAUCH ELOHIM) was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3Then God said, “Let there be light (HOLY SPIRIT),” and there was light. 4And God saw that the light (HOLY SPIRIT) was good.

The Holy Spirit is the breath of the father and an awesome friend, like my wife I met for the first time, she grows with me and knows who I am, brings life to me each passes day and like that the holy spirit is and you are describing the birth of Yeshau "the light and all things made for him".

Yeshau, Christ is the Holy Spirit, their is only one Shepard.

The Rauch Elohim is in all, the son/Holy Spirit is the baptism given to those who obey the love/light within.

God is Love, Love keeps no record of wrongdoing but rather rewards those who earnestly seek him.

When anyone obeys the commands of the prophets in thier search for God, wisdom is given. That wisdom is light, the Holy Spirit, the Christ, who is sent by the father to those who obey love, the sum of all the words of the prophets.

The light comes to those who seek the light within. That light is both Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit. They are one. If you look at the link, the NT references are provided that link the Holy Spirit to the Spirit of Christ as one not two.

www.hebrew-streams.org...

a reply to: AlephBet

It is my understanding that god was always reffered to as yahweh by the israelites. It was not until later that the name became innapropriate to use. I believe god in the old testament has 52 names. This is not something that should be taken literally.
Also people who acknoweldedge the god of the old testament know that nothing can run rampant of god. If god is the most high and everything is his creation than anything that happens in the physical world is what was supposed to happen. In the old testament not even the satan can run rampant of god. The only reason the fallen angels were able to sin while they were here is because they were in the physical realm. When any higher being is in the atzilut (what the israelites refered to as the realm beyond human comprehension) they tremble and shake when facing god. If god is all knowing than everything that took place on earth even the sins of the fallen angels was supposed to happen exactly as it did.

a reply to: ethanmag
I am not convinced the fallen or watchers were ever here in the physical but they spiritually bonded with some pretty women and they watch from the spirit realm wich is close enough to ours that if one has the knowledge he can use then to move things like huge rocks in our realm. IMO There is a group of people in our world that are the flesh for these fallen beings.