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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
originally posted by: Answer
originally posted by: SLAYER69
originally posted by: Answer
Attachment to a victim doesn't affect rational thought.
Attachment to LEOs doesn't automatically make them innocent either.
I don't have an attachment to LEOs. I have an attachment to rational thought instead of "burn em at the stake!" herd mentality that's so common here.
there is a difference between thinking you have rational thought and actually having rational thought....this was clear cut murder...no if buts or maybe's
originally posted by: Answer
Life doesn't work like the movies.
When the muzzle of your weapon moves EVEN A TINY BIT like you're going to point it at someone, you will be shot. Police don't wait around to see what's going to happen, they stop the threat.
They yelled at him, the muzzle started to come up, he got shot. The cops didn't know if he was carelessly swinging it around like a baton
originally posted by: muse7
originally posted by: Answer
originally posted by: muse7
originally posted by: Answer
originally posted by: SLAYER69
originally posted by: Answer
What you see is Mr. Crawford standing in the aisle with A RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle. The police had no way to know it's an air rifle
Try something like
THIS IS THE POLICE, DROP YOUR WEAPON!
?
Then when he complied they would have found out that the RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle was sold at the very store they were at.
No?
Life doesn't work like the movies.
When the muzzle of your weapon moves EVEN A TINY BIT like you're going to point it at someone, you will be shot. Police don't wait around to see what's going to happen, they stop the threat.
They yelled at him, the muzzle started to come up, he got shot. The cops didn't know if he was carelessly swinging it around like a baton or if he was about to bring it up and start firing. That's what the video shows and that's why the cops were cleared of any wrongdoing.
So its a crime punishable by death to attempt to turn in the direction of someone that is yelling at you?
Wow.
When you have a RIFLE IN YOUR HAND, yes!
Even if it's a BB rifle?
I mean the guy wasn't even given a chance to tell them that it was a BB gun.
originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
The police were clearly in the wrong. My fellow ATS members have proved it.
As for the jury, judge, review boards, fellow officers, family members, buddies, possible lodge members, boyfriends....nope. He's free and clear!
So if you aspire to become a Ted Bundy you don't have to stalk sorority girls you just become a police officer! Protection, fraternal brothership, endless targets. Plus you get a gun. How could you lose?
originally posted by: SLAYER69
originally posted by: Answer
Life doesn't work like the movies.
Oh I think we know who may have seen too many movies that day....
When the muzzle of your weapon moves EVEN A TINY BIT like you're going to point it at someone, you will be shot. Police don't wait around to see what's going to happen, they stop the threat.
They had taken up hidden positions behind the edge of the store shelves and had a perfect line of fire.
They yelled at him, the muzzle started to come up, he got shot. The cops didn't know if he was carelessly swinging it around like a baton
From their hidden position behind the shelving they could have observed him first then decided what to do next or yell.
When you have a RIFLE IN YOUR HAND, yes!
originally posted by: Answer
originally posted by: muse7
originally posted by: Answer
originally posted by: muse7
originally posted by: Answer
originally posted by: SLAYER69
originally posted by: Answer
What you see is Mr. Crawford standing in the aisle with A RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle. The police had no way to know it's an air rifle
Try something like
THIS IS THE POLICE, DROP YOUR WEAPON!
?
Then when he complied they would have found out that the RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle was sold at the very store they were at.
No?
Life doesn't work like the movies.
When the muzzle of your weapon moves EVEN A TINY BIT like you're going to point it at someone, you will be shot. Police don't wait around to see what's going to happen, they stop the threat.
They yelled at him, the muzzle started to come up, he got shot. The cops didn't know if he was carelessly swinging it around like a baton or if he was about to bring it up and start firing. That's what the video shows and that's why the cops were cleared of any wrongdoing.
So its a crime punishable by death to attempt to turn in the direction of someone that is yelling at you?
Wow.
When you have a RIFLE IN YOUR HAND, yes!
Even if it's a BB rifle?
I mean the guy wasn't even given a chance to tell them that it was a BB gun.
Again, you live in the real world.
If you're holding a rifle by its grip and the muzzle raises, any rational person will assume you plan to fire. There are MANY ways to hold a weapon that are non-threatening. Hand on the grip is a firing position.
If a person sees another person holding a black rifle by its grip, they don't think "oh, I'm sure that's just a BB gun and he's not planning to do anything bad." The first thought through any rational person's head would be "that guy has a rifle and he's ready to fire it."
Here are ALL the reasons the police had to assume he was going to fire:
1) Full-size rifle
2) Hand on grip
3) Rifle not in package (as it would be if he was just shopping)
4) Strangely loitering in a secluded corner of the store
Here are the reasons they had to assume he wouldn't fire:
1)...
Again, you're all looking at this with the benefit of hindsight. The cops on scene didn't have that luxury. They DO NOT wait around to decide if a gun is an air rifle or not. If they see a full-size black rifle in someone's hand, they treat it as an immediate threat. If your hand is on the grip of that rifle, they treat it as an even more immediate threat. If you do anything but drop that rifle immediately after they yell at you, you're going to get shot because it takes literally FRACTIONS of a second for someone to fire a rifle if their hand is already on the grip. When they yelled, the muzzle climbed and they were not going to wait to find out what happened next.
Additionally, preliminary autopsy findings show that Crawford was shot in the back of his left arm and in his left side, which supports the claim that he was never even facing the officers that shot him, as shown in the video. These facts support a narrative that officers never made verbal contact with Crawford, but instead simply gunned him down on sight.
originally posted by: Answer
originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: Answer
It's a murder. Plain and simple. Committed by murderers. No one cares about their confusion or lack of facts. We as citizens care about their utter lack of safety and human rights.
Stop talking out of your butt.
You have already admitted you don't have all the facts so you have NO justification for your claims. Stop crucifying people when you don't even know what happened.
Here are ALL the reasons the police had to assume he was going to fire:
1) Full-size rifle
2) Hand on grip
3) Rifle not in package (as it would be if he was just shopping)
4) Strangely loitering in a secluded corner of the store
originally posted by: Helious
I don't have an attachment to LEOs. I have an attachment to rational thought instead of "burn em at the stake!" herd mentality that's so common here.
Rational thought would tell you that instead of pissing in your pants like an 8 year old girl at the sight of a BB gun and killing innocent people on the word of somebody you don't know who called 911 with unknown intentions, you instead may do some actual police work.
Or, in the place of rational thought, you can just kill people indiscriminately and then hide behind a badge like the coward that your are.
originally posted by: Answer
Well if only you had been there, the situation would have been handled properly right?
Their positions behind the shelves left them open to fire. Police know this, you apparently don't.
Watch closely and you see the muzzle coming up as he turns toward the police.
I did not say "he points the rifle at the officers." I said "the muzzle starts to come up." That's all it takes because if you wait for the rifle to be fully pointed, it's too late.
The cops didn't know if he was carelessly swinging it around like a baton or if he was about to bring it up and start firing. That's what the video shows and that's why the cops were cleared of any wrongdoing.
originally posted by: muse7
originally posted by: Answer
originally posted by: muse7
originally posted by: Answer
originally posted by: muse7
originally posted by: Answer
originally posted by: SLAYER69
originally posted by: Answer
What you see is Mr. Crawford standing in the aisle with A RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle. The police had no way to know it's an air rifle
Try something like
THIS IS THE POLICE, DROP YOUR WEAPON!
?
Then when he complied they would have found out that the RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle was sold at the very store they were at.
No?
Life doesn't work like the movies.
When the muzzle of your weapon moves EVEN A TINY BIT like you're going to point it at someone, you will be shot. Police don't wait around to see what's going to happen, they stop the threat.
They yelled at him, the muzzle started to come up, he got shot. The cops didn't know if he was carelessly swinging it around like a baton or if he was about to bring it up and start firing. That's what the video shows and that's why the cops were cleared of any wrongdoing.
So its a crime punishable by death to attempt to turn in the direction of someone that is yelling at you?
Wow.
When you have a RIFLE IN YOUR HAND, yes!
Even if it's a BB rifle?
I mean the guy wasn't even given a chance to tell them that it was a BB gun.
Again, you live in the real world.
If you're holding a rifle by its grip and the muzzle raises, any rational person will assume you plan to fire. There are MANY ways to hold a weapon that are non-threatening. Hand on the grip is a firing position.
If a person sees another person holding a black rifle by its grip, they don't think "oh, I'm sure that's just a BB gun and he's not planning to do anything bad." The first thought through any rational person's head would be "that guy has a rifle and he's ready to fire it."
Here are ALL the reasons the police had to assume he was going to fire:
1) Full-size rifle
2) Hand on grip
3) Rifle not in package (as it would be if he was just shopping)
4) Strangely loitering in a secluded corner of the store
Here are the reasons they had to assume he wouldn't fire:
1)...
Again, you're all looking at this with the benefit of hindsight. The cops on scene didn't have that luxury. They DO NOT wait around to decide if a gun is an air rifle or not. If they see a full-size black rifle in someone's hand, they treat it as an immediate threat. If your hand is on the grip of that rifle, they treat it as an even more immediate threat. If you do anything but drop that rifle immediately after they yell at you, you're going to get shot because it takes literally FRACTIONS of a second for someone to fire a rifle if their hand is already on the grip. When they yelled, the muzzle climbed and they were not going to wait to find out what happened next.
I just watched the video again.
Before the cops announced their presence the guy with the rifle appeared to be swinging it back and forth next to his right leg. No one was being threatened or being held hostage, and by the movement of the rifle he sure as hell wasn't pointing it at anyone.
The Cops appeared to be hiding behind another shelf, that appeared to be some 10-15 feet away.
If you can't see how the Police Department could have handled this in a different manner, then I don't know.
I'm just going to give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume that you're just playing devil's advocate, and not actually trying to justify the actions of the Police.