BREAKING: Video Finally Released of Cops Shooting Man with a Toy Gun in Wal-Mart

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: SLAYER69

originally posted by: Answer
whose first response to his shout was to turn his way and raise the rifle.

Obviously
Didn't watch the video

Obviously YOU didn't watch the video. Do you not see the muzzle coming up right after the police yell at him? If you don't you're blind.

You're right, the cops did yell at him, but they waited less than a second for him to respond, he had just barely started to turn to see who was yelling at him when they opened fire. They did not provide anywhere near enough time to see how he was going to react, they gave him a fraction of a second. Furthermore, they didn't even say something like "this is the police, drop your weapon", they just yelled "hey" or something similar.

I can agree with you that the cops aren't entirely at fault here, this guy was stupid to walk around with a gun like that while speaking on his phone and he should have realized it wasn't a smart thing to do. But the cops are mostly at fault here with the reactionary tactics they used. There was no way this guy could have gotten out alive after those police were called because he had no time to prove his innocence.

a reply to: Answer

It's a murder. Plain and simple. Committed by murderers. No one cares about their confusion or lack of facts. We as citizens care about their utter lack of safety and human rights.

originally posted by: FraggleRock
a reply to: Answer

I guess I'm blind then because I see Mr. Crawford standing at the end of an aisle gently swinging an air rifle back and forth. I then see officers approach from the far end of the aisle, holler, and immediately open fire. At no point do I see any weapon being pointed at police nor do I see any attempt to point a weapon at police. Mr. Crawford was oblivious to the fact that police were even there until they shot him.

No, you're looking at the video with bias.

What you see is Mr. Crawford standing in the aisle with A RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle. The police had no way to know it's an air rifle and the only reason YOU know is because you now have all the facts.

If you stop the video at 1:30, you can see the muzzle coming up and his head swinging left immediately after they yell at him. Once the muzzle started to come up and the rifle didn't drop to the ground, the officer shot him. It happens VERY quickly because of the (justifiable) quick reaction of the officer. I did not say "he points the rifle at the officers." I said "the muzzle starts to come up." That's all it takes because if you wait for the rifle to be fully pointed, it's too late.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: Answer

It's a murder. Plain and simple. Committed by murderers. No one cares about their confusion or lack of facts. We as citizens care about their utter lack of safety and human rights.

Stop talking out of your butt.

You have already admitted you don't have all the facts so you have NO justification for your claims. Stop crucifying people when you don't even know what happened.

a reply to: Answer

In an earlier post I said I watched the video. And no, it did not change my opinion. It's still a cold blooded murder. No one cares anymore. Because we know it was a murder.

originally posted by: Answer
What you see is Mr. Crawford standing in the aisle with A RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle. The police had no way to know it's an air rifle

Try something like

THIS IS THE POLICE, DROP YOUR WEAPON!

?

Then when he complied they would have found out that the RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle was sold at the very store they were at.

No?

originally posted by: SLAYER69

originally posted by: Answer

Attachment to a victim doesn't affect rational thought.

Attachment to LEOs doesn't automatically make them innocent either.

I don't have an attachment to LEOs. I have an attachment to rational thought instead of "burn em at the stake!" herd mentality that's so common here.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: FraggleRock
a reply to: Answer

I guess I'm blind then because I see Mr. Crawford standing at the end of an aisle gently swinging an air rifle back and forth. I then see officers approach from the far end of the aisle, holler, and immediately open fire. At no point do I see any weapon being pointed at police nor do I see any attempt to point a weapon at police. Mr. Crawford was oblivious to the fact that police were even there until they shot him.

No, you're looking at the video with bias.

What you see is Mr. Crawford standing in the aisle with A RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle. The police had no way to know it's an air rifle and the only reason YOU know is because you now have all the facts.

If you stop the video at 1:30, you can see the muzzle coming up and his head swinging left immediately after they yell at him. Once the muzzle started to come up and the rifle didn't drop to the ground, the officer shot him. It happens VERY quickly because of the (justifiable) quick reaction of the officer. I did not say "he points the rifle at the officers." I said "the muzzle starts to come up." That's all it takes because if you wait for the rifle to be fully pointed, it's too late.

Thanks for clarifying to us that you support the policy of "Shoot first, Ask questions later!"

a reply to: Answer

I'm not implying that this part has ANYTHING to do with the shooting but it appears as though he was trying to shoplift the air rifle.

Agree 100% about him most likely being ready to shoplift the thing and also that it has no bearing on what ended up happening. Even if he was a wanted felon and was actively walking out the door stealing that response was BS. The cops couldn't have been aware of that.

I did Asset Protection as a plainclothes guy for a while and would be about 95% positive he was about to steal the thing. He was fake nonchalant. Also hanging out by the doors. I would have quit watching someone else that I actually saw conceal something (with a lesser dollar amount and I was alone) if I saw this guy and the way he was acting. There were a few things I would watch out for that weren't particularly PC, but being black wasn't one of them (I would have been horribly unsuccessful if that was my plan). We watched merchandise and behavior. Picking up an item that was unboxed was a BIG tell. People would come in, unbox something, stash it then have someone else come in or come in an hour later. Yes, I know that shopping cart one aisle from the door with $5k worth of product wasn't abandoned for no reason. I'm just a normal guy, shopping in the same aisle... You should push it out because Im not paying attention.

Still, that doesn't warrant the response. Even if he had stolen it and was out the door.

I don't care if this was an open carry state or not. I don't care if the tip was painted orange (and it wasn't as far as I can tell even when you look up the airgun). I don't care if it WAS a real gun.

The response by the police was way out of line, and now someone is dead. No one should be killed for being a potential or actual shoplifter, or for carrying a gun, or because some dumbass citizen with a look at me hard on calls in. This is all on the responding officer(s) who shot this guy on sight. Freaking sad. I don't think the cops set out that day to murder anyone, and I don't think they thought they could get away with it. I think a combination of adrenaline and poor training are the real culprits here.

originally posted by: SLAYER69

originally posted by: Answer
What you see is Mr. Crawford standing in the aisle with A RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle. The police had no way to know it's an air rifle

Try something like

THIS IS THE POLICE, DROP YOUR WEAPON!

?

Then when he complied they would have found out that the RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle was sold at the very store they were at.

No?

Life doesn't work like the movies.

When the muzzle of your weapon moves EVEN A TINY BIT like you're going to point it at someone, you will be shot. Police don't wait around to see what's going to happen, they stop the threat.

They yelled at him, the muzzle started to come up, he got shot. The cops didn't know if he was carelessly swinging it around like a baton or if he was about to bring it up and start firing. That's what the video shows and that's why the cops were cleared of any wrongdoing.

I don't have an attachment to LEOs. I have an attachment to rational thought instead of "burn em at the stake!" herd mentality that's so common here.

Rational thought would tell you that instead of pissing in your pants like an 8 year old girl at the sight of a BB gun and killing innocent people on the word of somebody you don't know who called 911 with unknown intentions, you instead may do some actual police work.

Or, in the place of rational thought, you can just kill people indiscriminately and then hide behind a badge like the coward that your are.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: SLAYER69

originally posted by: Answer

Attachment to a victim doesn't affect rational thought.

Attachment to LEOs doesn't automatically make them innocent either.

I don't have an attachment to LEOs. I have an attachment to rational thought instead of "burn em at the stake!" herd mentality that's so common here.

there is a difference between thinking you have rational thought and actually having rational thought....this was clear cut murder...no if buts or maybe's

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: SLAYER69

originally posted by: Answer
What you see is Mr. Crawford standing in the aisle with A RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle. The police had no way to know it's an air rifle

Try something like

THIS IS THE POLICE, DROP YOUR WEAPON!

?

Then when he complied they would have found out that the RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle was sold at the very store they were at.

No?

Life doesn't work like the movies.

When the muzzle of your weapon moves EVEN A TINY BIT like you're going to point it at someone, you will be shot. Police don't wait around to see what's going to happen, they stop the threat.

They yelled at him, the muzzle started to come up, he got shot. The cops didn't know if he was carelessly swinging it around like a baton or if he was about to bring it up and start firing. That's what the video shows and that's why the cops were cleared of any wrongdoing.

So its a crime punishable by death to attempt to turn in the direction of someone that is yelling at you?

Wow.

a reply to: Answer

Please refrain from telling me what I see, thanks.

Mr. Crawford was well within his rights to be where he was and doing what he was doing, regardless of how ignorant some might think his actions were. He was murdered for reacting to police yelling and then shooting. The fact that you are now supporting the police firing on and killing people who don't even have a weapon pointed at them I find rather disturbing. I agree, it all happens very quickly. So quickly that Mr. Crawford never had a chance to comply with any instructions given.

Oh, there's also THIS part of the story...

Death of woman at Walmart shooting called "devastating."

The Greene County Coroner’s office confirmed that Williams died Tuesday. According to a release from the office, “She was apparently running from a dangerous situation inside the Walmart store when she collapsed. She was taken to Soin Medical Center where she died at 9:14 p.m.”

So, who's responsible for this 39 year old mother, soon to be wife, and Nurse, who just stopped at the Walmart on her way home but ended up dying while fleeing the store when the POLICE started shooting? The man who was executed wasn't firing the gun. He was just holding it or had it on a shelf there in the aisle while he was looking at something else or on his phone. He NEVER pointed it at anyone, which is what the local media led the public to believe shortly after the incident and kept driving that point home all the way up to the grand jury.

They should not have held the grand jury in Xenia. It's too close to the area it happened in and, like I said the local media reported first that it was a shot gun, he was wielding it at shoppers in the store, pointing it at children, etc. Then it was a BB gun, but he was still pointing it at everyone in the store, including at women and children, like some sort of mad man. Idk when it finally came out that it was a pellet gun. That was fairly recent, and has not been reported all that much.

They painted this guy as some sort of whack job from the jump. After seeing the video, it seems he just picked it up and was checking it out, possibly interested in buying it, then stopped to look at something in the aisle he was executed in. I'd bet $5000000000000.00 that the guy with the kid called the cops, but I never seen him point it at that man or his kid. The call went to 911 shortly after and then the cops open fire, killing him there in that aisle.

I feel terrible for his family and friends. I am disgusted by the way the local media reported on this story from the jump. Their bias for the police and basically justifying their actions is insane.

I hope there are riots and protests. If there are, I'm going. It's only about an hour and half away, maybe two. This is sick and needs to stop. This shouldn't happen once a week in the USA, but lately it seems someone is shot by the police for barely doing anything, once or twice A DAY! Sick!!!

originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: FraggleRock
a reply to: Answer

I guess I'm blind then because I see Mr. Crawford standing at the end of an aisle gently swinging an air rifle back and forth. I then see officers approach from the far end of the aisle, holler, and immediately open fire. At no point do I see any weapon being pointed at police nor do I see any attempt to point a weapon at police. Mr. Crawford was oblivious to the fact that police were even there until they shot him.

No, you're looking at the video with bias.

What you see is Mr. Crawford standing in the aisle with A RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle. The police had no way to know it's an air rifle and the only reason YOU know is because you now have all the facts.

If you stop the video at 1:30, you can see the muzzle coming up and his head swinging left immediately after they yell at him. Once the muzzle started to come up and the rifle didn't drop to the ground, the officer shot him. It happens VERY quickly because of the (justifiable) quick reaction of the officer. I did not say "he points the rifle at the officers." I said "the muzzle starts to come up." That's all it takes because if you wait for the rifle to be fully pointed, it's too late.

Thanks for clarifying to us that you support the policy of "Shoot first, Ask questions later!"

Versus the policy of "wait for him to point the rifle at me and decide if he wants to kill me or not"?

Yes... yes I do. The muzzle was coming up. That's justification to shoot in the real world. Had this all gone the other way and the guy had a real rifle (like the police assumed at the time) and he did shoot someone (like they assumed he was capable of), you'd all be whining that the police didn't get there fast enough and DO SOMETHING about it. You can't have life both ways because we live in reality.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: SLAYER69

originally posted by: Answer

Attachment to a victim doesn't affect rational thought.

Attachment to LEOs doesn't automatically make them innocent either.

I don't have an attachment to LEOs. I have an attachment to rational thought instead of "burn em at the stake!" herd mentality that's so common here.

there is a difference between thinking you have rational thought and actually having rational thought....this was clear cut murder...no if buts or maybe's

If it's not murder

Then it sure as hell is manslaughter due to negligence, someone needs to be held accountable for the death of this man.

originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: SLAYER69

originally posted by: Answer
What you see is Mr. Crawford standing in the aisle with A RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle. The police had no way to know it's an air rifle

Try something like

THIS IS THE POLICE, DROP YOUR WEAPON!

?

Then when he complied they would have found out that the RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle was sold at the very store they were at.

No?

Life doesn't work like the movies.

When the muzzle of your weapon moves EVEN A TINY BIT like you're going to point it at someone, you will be shot. Police don't wait around to see what's going to happen, they stop the threat.

They yelled at him, the muzzle started to come up, he got shot. The cops didn't know if he was carelessly swinging it around like a baton or if he was about to bring it up and start firing. That's what the video shows and that's why the cops were cleared of any wrongdoing.

So its a crime punishable by death to attempt to turn in the direction of someone that is yelling at you?

Wow.

When you have a RIFLE IN YOUR HAND, yes!

This is sad.Very sad.They could've used the intercom and asked him to put the gun down just warn em ya know.Man....

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: SLAYER69

originally posted by: Answer
What you see is Mr. Crawford standing in the aisle with A RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle. The police had no way to know it's an air rifle

Try something like

THIS IS THE POLICE, DROP YOUR WEAPON!

?

Then when he complied they would have found out that the RIFLE OF SOME TYPE that looks exactly like a standard military-style rifle was sold at the very store they were at.

No?

Life doesn't work like the movies.

When the muzzle of your weapon moves EVEN A TINY BIT like you're going to point it at someone, you will be shot. Police don't wait around to see what's going to happen, they stop the threat.

They yelled at him, the muzzle started to come up, he got shot. The cops didn't know if he was carelessly swinging it around like a baton or if he was about to bring it up and start firing. That's what the video shows and that's why the cops were cleared of any wrongdoing.

So its a crime punishable by death to attempt to turn in the direction of someone that is yelling at you?

Wow.

When you have a RIFLE IN YOUR HAND, yes!

Even if it's a BB rifle?

I mean the guy wasn't even given a chance to tell them that it was a BB gun.