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The decline of religion and the last big push?

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posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

There is currently a 'changing of the guards' of control mechanisms. Religion was very successful for quite some time, but now too many question it. You can control the inverse response (I.e. rejection rather than acceptance), but that only works as an intermediary measure and not for more than a couple of decades at most.

So, I would expect a shift from old methods to new control methods. Most likely, it wont be recognized as 'religion,' at least not in the first several decades, but the behavior and results will be indistinguishable. Only those trapped in the paradigm will think something has changed. To answer your question, that would be both yes and no.

Religion, as we know it to be, is on its way out as a control mechanism, but it is just being replaced by zealotry in a different skin.

SSDD, and all that.




posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: nonspecific

There is currently a 'changing of the guards' of control mechanisms. Religion was very successful for quite some time, but now too many question it. You can control the inverse response (I.e. rejection rather than acceptance), but that only works as an intermediary measure and not for more than a couple of decades at most.

So, I would expect a shift from old methods to new control methods. Most likely, it wont be recognized as 'religion,' at least not in the first several decades, but the behavior and results will be indistinguishable. Only those trapped in the paradigm will think something has changed. To answer your question, that would be both yes and no.

Religion, as we know it to be, is on its way out as a control mechanism, but it is just being replaced by zealotry in a different skin.

SSDD, and all that.


So do you think that the Organised religions realise this and are attempting regain control or do you belive they will be involved in the new method of controll you propose?



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: Chronogoblin
Secondly, religions is NOT on the decline, since your own statistic points it to being 84% of the World's population.


I'd think you have to know the percentage previously to make that statement. If it was anywhere between 85%-100% at one point then it is on the decline.

Nevertheless, the poorer countries are more religious and they are growing in population faster than the richer countries....for whatever that's worth


...if education, science and better living conditions lead to the decline of religion then do the organised religions of the world realise this...

IMO, of course they do! Take for example the ISIS rules on education.


...and are the current East vs West hostilites a last big push in the war within religion before Irreligion becomes the dominant force globally?

I don't think so, today's wars are mostly about wealth as always...lack of it, attempting to get it, and trying to hold on to it.



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

I was shocked, did you pay close attention to the lyrics,



In Days of Elijah, other Old Testament figures are mentioned.

Moses, who restored righteousness to the people of Israel by reintroducing them to relationship with God and who established, by God’s finger, the law that would serve as a covenant between Him and them.
Ezekiel, who prophesized over a valley of dry bones, and watched as God brought them together — bone to bone — and then filled in with tendons and flesh and, finally, breath. God declares to Ezekiel that, like the bones, his people Israel will be restored as a nation and as His people.
David, the developer (though not the builder) of the first temple in Jerusalem, never-the-less returned the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem. But David’s “temple of praise,” as stated in Days of Elijah, is the temple inside you and me, where the Holy Spirit dwells.


www.biblestudytools.com...:16-41

And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah."…



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 01:47 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

I believe the current religious organizations are a means to an end, or a tool.

The same people who used religion will undoubtedly use whatever becomes most effective. They dont actually practice what they preach, nor do they care about the religion itself. At least not any further than a carpenter would care about his hammer. They can always get a new tool that is better designed for the task at hand.

They have never lost control, much less look to regain it. They have only diversified their investments.



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 01:47 PM
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edit on 24-9-2014 by Serdgiam because: good 'ol double post



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 01:51 PM
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originally posted by: RedParrotHead

originally posted by: Chronogoblin
Secondly, religions is NOT on the decline, since your own statistic points it to being 84% of the World's population.


I'd think you have to know the percentage previously to make that statement. If it was anywhere between 85%-100% at one point then it is on the decline.

Nevertheless, the poorer countries are more religious and they are growing in population faster than the richer countries....for whatever that's worth


...if education, science and better living conditions lead to the decline of religion then do the organised religions of the world realise this...

IMO, of course they do! Take for example the ISIS rules on education.


...and are the current East vs West hostilites a last big push in the war within religion before Irreligion becomes the dominant force globally?

I don't think so, today's wars are mostly about wealth as always...lack of it, attempting to get it, and trying to hold on to it.


Thanks for the input, according to the info I had religion is not in decline due as stated to the population growth in third world countries but irreligion is increasing fast.

Secondly I would like to thank you very much for actually answering the question I asked in the OP.

I made this thread for two reasons, firstly and primarily because I wanted to ask the question and discuss it with anyone that had an opinion.

The second reason was to find out how long it would take for someone to actually answer the question, Ie Yes: heres my reason or NO: heres my reason.

On page four with many interesting comments along the way I must add you are the first person to actually give me a response to the question I asked.

It has been interesting on both levels and if anyone can be bothered to re read/skim this thread it's quite interesting to see how many posts put forward a particular belief rather than addressing the question in the op.

Again thanks for your reply.

Now weather I aggree or not is a different matter entirley...



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: Stormdancer777

Beautifully put. I may be reading more into your post than I should, but I take it to mean that far too many simply fail to understand much of anything about "religion" or religious beliefs and practices. All they know is that presently it's "hip" and "in" to be anti-religion; it makes the proponent appear "smart".



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 02:06 PM
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originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Stormdancer777

Beautifully put. I may be reading more into your post than I should, but I take it to mean that far too many simply fail to understand much of anything about "religion" or religious beliefs and practices. All they know is that presently it's "hip" and "in" to be anti-religion; it makes the proponent appear "smart".


I respect your comments but I would disagree that it is Hip or In to be anti religion.

I think that is because religion has too many unanswerable questions and flaws in modern life to stand up to any logical scrutiny. I take it then that you disagree in relation to my origional question?



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: TonyS


All they know is that presently it's "hip" and "in" to be anti-religion; it makes the proponent appear "smart".


On the flip side I dare say anyone who follows and truly believes in a particular religion appears "smart" to themselves and other like-minded people. To that person, anyone who believes in a religion other than theirs isn't as smart, but they are at least in the ball park...but anyone doesn't believe in any religion at all must be a moron! After all, it's all right there on the page! You'd have to be an idiot to not wanting to make it into paradise/heaven/whatever...right?

Also being an atheist doesn't make someone "anti-religion" necessarily. I'm an atheist and think that religion helps humanity in a lot of ways and is needed still for many reasons.



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

If by your original question you mean:
The question I would like to put forward is that if education, science and better living conditions lead to the decline of religion then do the organised religions of the world realise this and are the current East vs West hostilites a last big push in the war within religion before Irreligion becomes the dominant force globally?

Then I'd have to say that I don't believe the current East vs. West hostilities is a push in the war "within religion", which I take to mean "between religions"? If your referring to the conflict with ISIL, I'd point out it takes two to "WAR" and I don't see any "Christians" or "Hindus" for that matter standing up and declaring war on Islam Jihadis in response to beheadings and crucifixions of Christians. I like what the newly elected Prime Minister of India said, the struggle against the Islamic Fundamentalist radicals is a struggle of humanity versus inhumanity.



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 02:26 PM
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originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: nonspecific

If by your original question you mean:
The question I would like to put forward is that if education, science and better living conditions lead to the decline of religion then do the organised religions of the world realise this and are the current East vs West hostilites a last big push in the war within religion before Irreligion becomes the dominant force globally?

Then I'd have to say that I don't believe the current East vs. West hostilities is a push in the war "within religion", which I take to mean "between religions"? If your referring to the conflict with ISIL, I'd point out it takes two to "WAR" and I don't see any "Christians" or "Hindus" for that matter standing up and declaring war on Islam Jihadis in response to beheadings and crucifixions of Christians. I like what the newly elected Prime Minister of India said, the struggle against the Islamic Fundamentalist radicals is a struggle of humanity versus inhumanity.


Thank you for your response.

Yes I was referring to the current conflict with Isil.

Would you disagree that christianity has attempted in the past to convert the world to there religion and used violence if deemed appropriate?



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: RedParrotHead
a reply to: TonyS


All they know is that presently it's "hip" and "in" to be anti-religion; it makes the proponent appear "smart".


On the flip side I dare say anyone who follows and truly believes in a particular religion appears "smart" to themselves and other like-minded people.


Uh....no. I've spoken with many who hold religious beliefs and they feel anything but "smart". Its a burden.



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 02:33 PM
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originally posted by: TonyS

originally posted by: RedParrotHead
a reply to: TonyS


All they know is that presently it's "hip" and "in" to be anti-religion; it makes the proponent appear "smart".


On the flip side I dare say anyone who follows and truly believes in a particular religion appears "smart" to themselves and other like-minded people.


Uh....no. I've spoken with many who hold religious beliefs and they feel anything but "smart". Its a burden.



Could you expand on this please, I feel it may be important in my understanding of "Faith".

Do you mean you question your religion?

Are these people of multiple faiths or one in particular?

Is this due to recognised achievments and wealth?

I thank you for your honesty.



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 02:35 PM
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a reply to: Stormdancer777




I was shocked, did you pay close attention to the lyrics,



Why were you shocked??? Is that song not sung at church services?

Do you think that video is of a unit or some mandatory gathering for the military?

I asked you what you thought that video was of.

There really isn't anything shocking about soldiers attending church I am very confused as to why you think that would be shocking. Were you not aware that bases have chaplains and services for those who are religious?
edit on 24-9-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: TonyS

Uh....no. I've spoken with many who hold religious beliefs and they feel anything but "smart". Its a burden.


So, these people carry this religious burden because they think they're stupid? I don't buy that.

A guy carrying a heavy jug of water through the desert thinks it's going to pay off eventually...it wouldn't be "smart" to travel otherwise. I'm sure he looks at the empty-handed traveler with a sense of superiority or at least pity. Little does he know that the other guys knows the desert is never-ending so in the end the water isn't any help in reaching the other side.
edit on 9/24/2014 by RedParrotHead because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

I'd prefer not to expand on this, but I appreciate your interest.

It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with "achievements" or "wealth". It has more to do with understanding, discovery, more understanding and ultimate humbling. I don't know anything about your understanding of "Faith". Faith is less belief than it is experiential. It is "practiced" or "followed". The more its practiced, the more is understood. The greater the understanding, the greater the burden. In many respects its very painful. Which is precisely why I don't like to expand thereupon. And that feeling is almost universally shared by most I've known and talked to as persons "of faith".



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

There's no doubt that the history of Christianity is one of past violence used in the furtherance of the "faith". That doesn't make it right, for Christianity or any other "religious" group.



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 02:51 PM
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I think I get where you're coming from.

I've always thought that in recent years (maybe even 2001 as a kind of symbol) that we've been straddling two different worlds as we are experiencing a transition of ages (and the natural conflict that comes with shedding an old world when you step into a new one). The fear that the world is not turning backwards to a time where ignorance reigned is making everyone a little edgy but religious groups seem to be stir crazy about it and it's promoting aggression and negative behaviors and attitudes in all aspects of life. I wouldn't call what's happening a religious resurgence at all but a hardening up of what is already there - as if in a kind of rigor-mortis - hence the crusade like atmosphere and religious weirdness across the globe. Something wants to be born and it's like pulling the rug out from under your feet - people don't usually find age transitions pleasant lol.

All my opinion of course.
edit on 24-9-2014 by Floydshayvious because: boop



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 02:56 PM
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originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: nonspecific

I'd prefer not to expand on this, but I appreciate your interest.

It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with "achievements" or "wealth". It has more to do with understanding, discovery, more understanding and ultimate humbling. I don't know anything about your understanding of "Faith". Faith is less belief than it is experiential. It is "practiced" or "followed". The more its practiced, the more is understood. The greater the understanding, the greater the burden. In many respects its very painful. Which is precisely why I don't like to expand thereupon. And that feeling is almost universally shared by most I've known and talked to as persons "of faith".


I appriciate your wish not to expand on the subject, I realise that the questions were maybe somewhat personal and I did not wish to intrude.

I will say though that I have faith. I have faith in my own ability to do what I believe to be right.

I have faith in my relationship with my partner and for her to do the same.

I have faith in my close friends and family that have shown me that they deserve my faith in them to do the right thing.

But to put my faith in a mythical entity represented by billions throughout history who have proven themselves to be self centred, money and power orientated organisations is something that I have not found the ability to do as of yet.


edit on 92014911pAmerica/Chicago2014-09-24T15:09:11-05:0009f09 by nonspecific because: poor spelling whilst tired



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