The decline of religion and the last big push?

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: nonspecific

It can be looked at in many ways, I found it interesting considering the times we are living in.

How Russians survived militant atheism to embrace God
www.csmonitor.com...

Today, less than 20 years after the collapse of the officially atheistic Soviet Union, Russia has emerged as the most God-believing nation in Europe, more so than Roman Catholic Italy or Protestant Britain. The independent Public Opinion Fund poll discovered this spring that 82 percent of Russians now say they are religious believers.

and influencing people works both ways, forcing opinions down others throats and ridiculing those that don't think like you think they should think

Throughout the history of the Soviet Union (1922-1991), Soviet authorities suppressed and persecuted various forms of Christianity to different extents depending on the particular era. Soviet policy, based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism, made atheism the official doctrine of the Soviet Union. Marxism-Leninism has consistently advocated the control, suppression, and the elimination of religious beliefs.[1] The state was committed to the destruction of religion,[2][3] and destroyed churches, mosques and temples, ridiculed, harassed and executed religious leaders, flooded the schools and media with atheistic teachings, and generally promoted atheism as the truth that society should accept.[4

en.wikipedia.org...

There is no atheist Utopia either.

"Every man appears to himself righteous,

It could be said that Russia was forced into athiesm and had there own religion taken away from them.

It is therefore unsuprising that when given the choice they reverted back to it as soon as possible.

It will be interesting to see what happens as the older generations die out and are replaced by those who will not remember.

Thats one of the points I was trying to make, as other countries also improve education and quality of life it would be reasonable to assume the same thing would happen.

a reply to: Prezbo369

a reply to: Stormdancer777

Having been in the military and knowing how classes or non-chapel church services look, this was either a course for a religion-based job in the Marines, or a church service somewhere downrange in a classroom-like setting.

Lots of military go to church and sing religious songs. Also, many do not. I could post a video of military members dancing around and singing to vulgar music, too, but that doesn't make any sort of constructive point for this thread.

When Cyrus the Great conquered the greatest city in the ancient world, Babylon, it was foretold over 300 years in advance how he was going to do it. It's walls were daunting and seemingly impenetrable. And it was surrounded by the great Euphrates river. What army could ever take such a city?

It was foretold that he would divert the waters of that great city:

(Isaiah 44:27) 27 The One saying to the deep waters, ‘Be evaporated, And I will dry up all your rivers’;

The father of history Herodotus describes how Cyrus conquered that once great city, and he confirmed that Cyrus did indeed divert the waters away from the city, until his soldiers were able to wade through it waste deep:

“[Cyrus went] drawing off the river by a canal into the lake [the artificial lake said to have been made earlier by Queen Nitocris], which was till now a marsh, he made the stream to sink till its former channel could be forded. When this happened, the Persians who were posted with this intent made their way into Babylon by the channel of the Euphrates, which had now sunk about to the height of the middle of a man’s thigh.

- Herodotus I (191, 192).




Most critics of the Bible cannot reconcile Isaiah's precise prophecy, which went much more into detail than this, which included Cyrus' name 300 years before he was born:

(Isaiah 45:1) 45 This is what Jehovah says to his anointed one, to Cyrus, Whose right hand I have taken hold of To subdue nations before him, To disarm kings, To open before him the double doors, So that the gates will not be shut:


What is the point of this?

All false religion today which has kept mankind in bondage and spiritual darkness is called in the book of Revelation: "Babylon the great." Yes from Babylon of old stem all of false religions God dis-honoring doctrines, such as the Hell-fire dogma, the Trinity, and the Immortality of the soul. All religions around the world carry as a motif these basic themes in them.

What is to happen to her? Notice the prophecy:

(Revelation 16:12) . . .The sixth one poured out his bowl on the great river Eu·phra′tes, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the rising of the sun.


Yes, just as the waters were dried up back in then by Cyrus of the great river surrounding the seemingly impregnable city so today the waters are drying up in the river Euphrates. In what sense? What do the waters represent? The prophecy tells us, we do not need to guess:


(Revelation 17:15) . . .“The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.


The waters where this religious "prostitute" sits on means people and crowds and nations and tongues. That is all of the people that are in false religion. All the billions that make up Christendom, both Catholicism and Protestantism, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and the plethora of other god-dishonoring religions, in Satan's hands.

Jehovah's Witnesses have long discerned that these verses showed us that before her end came:

*** re chap. 32 pp. 229-230 par. 22 God’s Anger Brought to a Finish ***
Babylon the Great “sits on many waters.” According to Revelation 17:1, 15, these symbolize “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues”—hordes of adherents that she has regarded as a protection. But the “waters” are drying up! In Western Europe, where formerly she had great influence, hundreds of millions have openly ignored religion. In some lands, for many years there was a declared policy to try to destroy the influence of religion. The masses in those lands have not risen up on her behalf. Similarly, when the time comes for Babylon the Great to be destroyed, the dwindling number of her adherents will prove to be no protection at all. (Revelation 17:16) Though she claims a membership of thousands of millions, Babylon the Great will find herself defenseless against “the kings from the rising of the sun.”

- Published 1988.

*** kc chap. 17 pp. 164-165 par. 7 The King Fights at Armageddon ***
Do we see a modern-day parallel to this? Why, yes! The time has come for God to execute judgment on “Babylon the Great,” and especially her “daughter” organizations of Christendom. Christendom’s apostasy and bloodguilt have now come to the full! (Revelation 18:24; Jeremiah 51:12, 13) In recent times the “waters,” or “peoples,” that formerly supported her religion have been falling away. Support for religion has been drying up, with many persons turning to the teachings of Darwin, Marx, Lenin and Mao. Also, as prophesied concerning the “last days,” people have become “lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God.”—2 Timothy 3:1, 4.

- Published 1981.

There are many other references but these should suffice.

What you are observing is the fulfillment of Bible prophecy for the coming destruction of false religion.

But notice the waters are not completely dried up before her end comes.

Religion will never go away, it will just morph and change into something else.

Science already speculates (but still has yet to prove) that there may be a god gene responsible in our human DNA that predisposes us to belief in religious or supernatural things. I'm not sure I believe that, but I do believe that hope for something better is what keeps humanity going in the face of great adversity, and often times people use religion to fill in that hope void.

The desire for something better will never wain from humanity, so ideas--such as religion--will always persevere in some amount and degree somewhere in the world. The real question is, will organized religion stand the test of time, or will people tire of the associated negative BS that comes with it (dogma to which someone may not subscribe but has to, war and violence, judgmentalism, etc.) and opt out for something more personal and less damaging to the world as a whole?

Who knows, but I prefer to just take life as it comes without a need to believe in anything supernatural in order to make me a good person. I do good by others and hope the same comes my way. If so, cool. If not, I'll deal with it appropriately...without a god.

a reply to: nonspecific

Greetings- I don't want to be too specific but religion™ along with military™ and politics™ are patriarchal (Yang based) in nature and 'Yang' is burning out to give way to 'Yin'. This is what the Maya carved into stone to make certain We received the message. It wasn't the end of the world but "The Beginning of a New Era" and it'll revert back to Yang in 26,000 MOL years.

Mother Earth is a living being and being such, also needs to evolve and with the recent Mercury Retrograde, She has shifted from the 3rd dimension/chakra into the 4th. Those who are having a difficult time adjusting are 'probably' still vibrating in 3rd gear..

Wait until 'more' awaken from their "deep sleep" and watch the pace quicken..

Best advice: Stay out of "their" 'way'...

namaste

P.S. as far as You disrespecting The One who mentions Buddhism and Taoism, You didn't read their post very clearly.. It reads as if this One doesn't have an 'ego' therefore Their emotions are controlled by them and not any outside influences. They haven't any attachment to how You 'feel' or 'think'. (Look for the spider...) I'm pretty sure they observe Rule #2) What someOne thinks of them is none of their business.

But what do I know? As I stated I didn't want to be too specific..

originally posted by: iSomeone
When Cyrus the Great conquered the greatest city in the ancient world, Babylon, it was foretold over 300 years in advance how he was going to do it. It's walls were daunting and seemingly impenetrable. And it was surrounded by the great Euphrates river. What army could ever take such a city?

It was foretold that he would divert the waters of that great city:

(Isaiah 44:27) 27 The One saying to the deep waters, ‘Be evaporated, And I will dry up all your rivers’;

The father of history Herodotus describes how Cyrus conquered that once great city, and he confirmed that Cyrus did indeed divert the waters away from the city, until his soldiers were able to wade through it waste deep:

“[Cyrus went] drawing off the river by a canal into the lake [the artificial lake said to have been made earlier by Queen Nitocris], which was till now a marsh, he made the stream to sink till its former channel could be forded. When this happened, the Persians who were posted with this intent made their way into Babylon by the channel of the Euphrates, which had now sunk about to the height of the middle of a man’s thigh.

- Herodotus I (191, 192).

Most critics of the Bible cannot reconcile Isaiah's precise prophecy, which went much more into detail than this, which included Cyrus' name 300 years before he was born:

(Isaiah 45:1) 45 This is what Jehovah says to his anointed one, to Cyrus, Whose right hand I have taken hold of To subdue nations before him, To disarm kings, To open before him the double doors, So that the gates will not be shut:


What is the point of this?

All false religion today which has kept mankind in bondage and spiritual darkness is called in the book of Revelation: "Babylon the great." Yes from Babylon of old stem all of false religions God dis-honoring doctrines, such as the Hell-fire dogma, the Trinity, and the Immortality of the soul. All religions around the world carry as a motif these basic themes in them.

What is to happen to her? Notice the prophecy:

(Revelation 16:12) . . .The sixth one poured out his bowl on the great river Eu·phra′tes, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the rising of the sun.


Yes, just as the waters were dried up back in then by Cyrus of the great river surrounding the seemingly impregnable city so today the waters are drying up in the river Euphrates. In what sense? What do the waters represent? The prophecy tells us, we do not need to guess:


(Revelation 17:15) . . .“The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.


The waters where this religious "prostitute" sits on means people and crowds and nations and tongues. That is all of the people that are in false religion. All the billions that make up Christendom, both Catholicism and Protestantism, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and the plethora of other god-dishonoring religions, in Satan's hands.

Jehovah's Witnesses have long discerned that these verses showed us that before her end came:

*** re chap. 32 pp. 229-230 par. 22 God’s Anger Brought to a Finish ***
Babylon the Great “sits on many waters.” According to Revelation 17:1, 15, these symbolize “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues”—hordes of adherents that she has regarded as a protection. But the “waters” are drying up! In Western Europe, where formerly she had great influence, hundreds of millions have openly ignored religion. In some lands, for many years there was a declared policy to try to destroy the influence of religion. The masses in those lands have not risen up on her behalf. Similarly, when the time comes for Babylon the Great to be destroyed, the dwindling number of her adherents will prove to be no protection at all. (Revelation 17:16) Though she claims a membership of thousands of millions, Babylon the Great will find herself defenseless against “the kings from the rising of the sun.”

- Published 1988.

*** kc chap. 17 pp. 164-165 par. 7 The King Fights at Armageddon ***
Do we see a modern-day parallel to this? Why, yes! The time has come for God to execute judgment on “Babylon the Great,” and especially her “daughter” organizations of Christendom. Christendom’s apostasy and bloodguilt have now come to the full! (Revelation 18:24; Jeremiah 51:12, 13) In recent times the “waters,” or “peoples,” that formerly supported her religion have been falling away. Support for religion has been drying up, with many persons turning to the teachings of Darwin, Marx, Lenin and Mao. Also, as prophesied concerning the “last days,” people have become “lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God.”—2 Timothy 3:1, 4.

- Published 1981.

There are many other references but these should suffice.

What you are observing is the fulfillment of Bible prophecy for the coming destruction of false religion.

But notice the waters are not completely dried up before her end comes.

That is an interesting take on the question but I will suggest that what YOU are observing is the fulfillment of Bible prophecy for the coming destruction of false religion.

I respect your right to do so but what I am observing is the decline of religious belief due to advancements in science, medicene and freedom of expression in many of the more affluent nations of the world.

a reply to: nonspecific

We are not in disagreement that religion has kept mankind in darkness over thousands of years. I cannot deny it.

But atheism is also another method of keeping you in the dark. And it will be no saving light or salvation to mankind. When false religions' end does come at the behest of God as he moves this world's political powers running to atheism will no doubt be the only choice. But it will not be a good one.

Events have been in motion and they are coming to there head.

True religion and science do not conflict. Also true religion leads to waters that lead to salvation and everlasting-life.


You might want to take the time to get to know it better.

originally posted by: JimNasium
a reply to: nonspecific

Greetings- I don't want to be too specific but religion™ along with military™ and politics™ are patriarchal (Yang based) in nature and 'Yang' is burning out to give way to 'Yin'. This is what the Maya carved into stone to make certain We received the message. It wasn't the end of the world but "The Beginning of a New Era" and it'll revert back to Yang in 26,000 MOL years.

Mother Earth is a living being and being such, also needs to evolve and with the recent Mercury Retrograde, She has shifted from the 3rd dimension/chakra into the 4th. Those who are having a difficult time adjusting are 'probably' still vibrating in 3rd gear..

Wait until 'more' awaken from their "deep sleep" and watch the pace quicken..

Best advice: Stay out of "their" 'way'...

namaste

P.S. as far as You disrespecting The One who mentions Buddhism and Taoism, You didn't read their post very clearly.. It reads as if this One doesn't have an 'ego' therefore Their emotions are controlled by them and not any outside influences. They haven't any attachment to how You 'feel' or 'think'. (Look for the spider...) I'm pretty sure they observe Rule #2) What someOne thinks of them is none of their business.

But what do I know? As I stated I didn't want to be too specific..

As to your Ps I felt the post was trying to shoot my OP down without any real reasoning, BANG BANG BANG. I thought maybe they had a religious belief that I may have offended so thought it best to make sure that it was not my intention.

Education has nothing to do with the decline in religion. It's wealth. You see, living on 2$ a day, you're hoping to overcome it and earn a decent salary for a decent life and turn to religion for hope. But when everything is fine and you're healthy both physically and financially, you don't tend to be too religious. This is why third world countries are more religious than the first world. Celebrities for example, you don't see any of them going to church, do you?

a reply to: iSomeone

I'm sorry, but "prophecies" mean nothing when you consider that Cyrus defeated Babylon in 539 BCE, and it is widely accepted by biblical scholars and historians that the portions of Isaiah that deal with Cyrus were not written by the same author who wrote chapters 1-39 (which supposedly contain the words of the original Isaiah). This means that it is not an original prophecy of Isaiah's, but was added later...basically, it's not a prophecy, but a story that pretends the taking of Babylon was a prophecy and ordained by god.

This is where some simple research and constructive thinking comes into play when dealing with mysticism, invisible dieties, and 2,700-year-old "prophecies" that people still believe are factual. What is it that "they" say?

Oh yeah, "You can't believe everything you read."

ETA: After reading your replies to Nonspecific, I couldn't help but call this out:

originally posted by: iSomeone
a reply to: nonspecific

True religion and science do not conflict. Also true religion leads to waters that lead to salvation and everlasting-life.

You might want to take the time to get to know it better.

I'm not trying to be snarky or rude, but it seems like you may want to get to know the bible a little better before just assuming that everything in it is accurate.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Agree. Religion will not go away until science can proves that God doesn't exist.

originally posted by: iSomeone
a reply to: nonspecific

We are not in disagreement that religion has kept mankind in darkness over thousands of years. I cannot deny it.

But atheism is also another method of keeping you in the dark. And it will be no saving light or salvation to mankind. When false religions' end does come at the behest of God as he moves this world's political powers running to atheism will no doubt be the only choice. But it will not be a good one.

Events have been in motion and they are coming to there head.

True religion and science do not conflict. Also true religion leads to waters that lead to salvation and everlasting-life.


You might want to take the time to get to know it better.

I should point out that I am not an athiest. I do not deny that there may be a god or gods. The question I was asking in the op was intended to be about organised religion imposing laws and rules that often have little relavance in the modern world.

In a world where science and technology have given us greater understanding of the world we live in I find it impossible to live my life according to the words of a book written hundreds of years ago about a group of people who may or may not have existed.

I understand that these books may bring comfort to many but fail to see how it can form a sensible basis for my actions in the modern world.

originally posted by: Boeing777
Education has nothing to do with the decline in religion. It's wealth. You see, living on 2$ a day, you're hoping to overcome it and earn a decent salary for a decent life and turn to religion for hope. But when everything is fine and you're healthy both physically and financially, you don't tend to be too religious. This is why third world countries are more religious than the first world. Celebrities for example, you don't see any of them going to church, do you?

I think that wealth has a lot to do with it as you say and as the research suggests. I imagine in a ele then many possibly including myself would turn to religion pretty sharpish.

Give me a spiritual place where I can meet people beyond duality that want to meet to share spiritual experience/play around with telepathy/synchronicity/Reiki(laying of hand)/learning other tools and I will come.

A priest who sermons about the spiritual nature of what is from quotes from 2000 years ago without any real own reflection do not interest me.

originally posted by: Boeing777
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Agree. Religion will not go away until science can proves that God doesn't exist.

So, it will never go away. Even science can't prove a negative, and even if it whittles away at each and every supernatural claim that the bible (or any other religious book) has in it, believers will still claim that a god invented science, or the ability to prove these things, or that it's not proof, it's a deception of the devil, etc., etc.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: Boeing777
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Agree. Religion will not go away until science can proves that God doesn't exist.

So, it will never go away. Even science can't prove a negative, and even if it whittles away at each and every supernatural claim that the bible (or any other religious book) has in it, believers will still claim that a god invented science, or the ability to prove these things, or that it's not proof, it's a deception of the devil, etc., etc.

There is a big difference between something dissapearing completley and somthing declining to a point where it no longer has the prevalent influence on a global, political or personal level.

a reply to: JimNasium

Mother Earth is a living being and being such, also needs to evolve and with the recent Mercury Retrograde, She has shifted from the 3rd dimension/chakra into the 4th. Those who are having a difficult time adjusting are 'probably' still vibrating in 3rd gear..

What are you definition on that earth has shifted into 4 (Heart anahata)?

And how can you know if you have shifted to 4th? The flame? The push on the forehead? The flow thru the top of the head? The vibrating hands? A pulsating heart event?

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
Give me a spiritual place where I can meet people beyond duality that want to meet to share spiritual experience/play around with telepathy/synchronicity/Reiki(laying of hand)/learning other tools and I will come.

A priest who sermons about the spiritual nature of what is from quotes from 2000 years ago without any real own reflection do not interest me.

May I ask if you were raised within a certain religion please?

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: Boeing777
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Agree. Religion will not go away until science can proves that God doesn't exist.

So, it will never go away. Even science can't prove a negative, and even if it whittles away at each and every supernatural claim that the bible (or any other religious book) has in it, believers will still claim that a god invented science, or the ability to prove these things, or that it's not proof, it's a deception of the devil, etc., etc.

Do not worry. The science will in the end with observation prove how laying of hands works and the placebo effect and how synchronicity sometimes can create telepathy when it starts to really ask the rights questions and seek knowledge. All is energy in one form or another that can be manipulated thru for instance entanglement.