The decline of religion and the last big push?

Firstly I would like to say that I do not intend this to become an argument about religious beliefs or absence of them.

The question I wish to ask is based on some very brief research I have done regarding religious belief in the United Kingdom.

Although a few years out of date a survey showed that only 23% of the population thought religion played an important part in their daily lives.

On a global scale the figure was 84%.

"In the poorest countries, with average per capita incomes of $2,000 or less, the median proportion who said religion was important stood at 95%. In contrast, the median for the richest nations (with per capita incomes higher than $25,000) was 47%. The United States (65%) was the most significant wealthy country to buck this trend."

other research showed that athiesm or a personal spiritual belief not linked to an organised religion is rising at quite a pace although not at the same rate as religious belief due to population growth rates in third world countries.

The question I would like to put forward is that if education, science and better living conditions lead to the decline of religion then do the organised religions of the world realise this and are the current East vs West hostilites a last big push in the war within religion before Irreligion becomes the dominant force globally?

Link

Firstly, there is no "War on Religion" regardless of your own desires on the matter.

Secondly, religions is NOT on the decline, since your own statistic points it to being 84% of the World's population.

Thirdly, you most likely really meant to say: "Christianity is on the decline." Because threads like this are never about Buddhism, or Taoism.

and Lastly, whatever problem you and others seem to have with 'religion,' most likely stems from your own experiences, and does not reflect on the experiences of everyone.

originally posted by: nonspecific
Firstly I would like to say that I do not intend this to become an argument about religious beliefs or absence of them.

The question I wish to ask is based on some very brief research I have done regarding religious belief in the United Kingdom.

Although a few years out of date a survey showed that only 23% of the population thought religion played an important part in their daily lives.

On a global scale the figure was 84%.

"In the poorest countries, with average per capita incomes of $2,000 or less, the median proportion who said religion was important stood at 95%. In contrast, the median for the richest nations (with per capita incomes higher than $25,000) was 47%. The United States (65%) was the most significant wealthy country to buck this trend."

other research showed that athiesm or a personal spiritual belief not linked to an organised religion is rising at quite a pace although not at the same rate as religious belief due to population growth rates in third world countries.

The question I would like to put forward is that if education, science and better living conditions lead to the decline of religion then do the organised religions of the world realise this and are the current East vs West hostilites a last big push in the war within religion before Irreligion becomes the dominant force globally?

Link

The absence of religion cannot and will not be a 'dominant force globally' as it's merely the rejection of a claim.

No more no less.

The current Islamic push from the middle east is what happens when poor, superstitious and ignorant people (that know no better) are whipped up into a zealous fury.

take this however you want

youtu.be...

Would you not agree that The current situation involving Isis is a religious one?

As to your second point what I meant to convey is that although religion is NOT on the decline as stated Irreligion is on the increase due to higher living standards and education and that as more and more countries follow suit it would be fair to extrapolate that the trend will continue and eventually religion will decline.

As I stated first off I did not wish for this to be about specific religions but the concept of religion as a whole.

As to your last statment I appologise if I have somehow offended you in this, It was simply a question and I even placed it in the skunk works forum as it has as yet no evidence to support it.


a reply to: Chronogoblin

originally posted by: Prezbo369

originally posted by: nonspecific
Firstly I would like to say that I do not intend this to become an argument about religious beliefs or absence of them.

The question I wish to ask is based on some very brief research I have done regarding religious belief in the United Kingdom.

Although a few years out of date a survey showed that only 23% of the population thought religion played an important part in their daily lives.

On a global scale the figure was 84%.

"In the poorest countries, with average per capita incomes of $2,000 or less, the median proportion who said religion was important stood at 95%. In contrast, the median for the richest nations (with per capita incomes higher than $25,000) was 47%. The United States (65%) was the most significant wealthy country to buck this trend."

other research showed that athiesm or a personal spiritual belief not linked to an organised religion is rising at quite a pace although not at the same rate as religious belief due to population growth rates in third world countries.

The question I would like to put forward is that if education, science and better living conditions lead to the decline of religion then do the organised religions of the world realise this and are the current East vs West hostilites a last big push in the war within religion before Irreligion becomes the dominant force globally?

Link

The absence of religion cannot and will not be a 'dominant force globally' as it's merely the rejection of a claim.

No more no less.

The current Islamic push from the middle east is what happens when poor, superstitious and ignorant people (that know no better) are whipped up into a zealous fury.

I disagree, Irreligion could one day be the domanant belief globally. It is entirely plausible that the religions of today will fall out of favour as many have done before.

a reply to: nonspecific

I don't think there is any "organized" push by the religious or the west, other than the most fanatical in their attempts to gain control of certain regions and inflict their will on populations. This has always been the case, ISIS does it with knives and guns, Christianity does it by "helping" in the developing world (really nothing more than giving people necessities in exchange for their devotion).

There have always been fanatics wanting to push their religious will onto entire populations. The problem we are currently seeing in Iraq and Syria is a result of radicalization through inaction by other nations. We did little or nothing to help spread education and democratic principles in these countries, and our inaction is now coming back to haunt us.

Maybe if corporations and governments weren't so two-faced, willing to ignore Human Rights abuses when it suits their Oil deals, this wouldn't be the case. Unfortunately, the UK, US, Russia, much of Europe and Asian nations all turn a blind eye to the Human Rights abuses happening in these countries in favor of lucrative trade deals.

What we really need is a multi-faceted approach. We need to put down these violent extremists wherever we can, but we also need to stop the spread of religious indoctrination in schools, and hold governments to account for failing to provide their freedom and individual rights to their citizens. These governments need to encouraged to join the rest of the developed world, not allowed to just carry on pushing their religious beliefs onto their populations through unacceptable laws and delusional practices.

The biggest thing we could do to reduce religious belief is spread free access to the internet to every dark reach of these despotic nations and show the youth there that they have the power to take their country back from the old and decrepit religious preachers who want nothing more than to maintain a modern slavery with them at the top of the pile. These are massively corrupt people who use religious belief to maintain their control over the people, and freeing the younger generations from that ignorance is the key to encouraging a revolution and removing them from power.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
take this however you want

youtu.be...

I will take it as a group of mind controlled people chanting as per instruction. Also given the situations they are put in gives them a genuine reason to have faith in a divine entity and the prospect of an afterlife.

Religion isn't leaving us any time soon, OP. Although I do believe that the religions of fear will both change and decline into a very small minority of the earths population, given time. I am an atheist, but I'm not so sure personal spirituality, and a faith in someone/something greater is necessarily a bad thing. It is the organized religions(of fear) that have become the enemy of civilization and have been instrumental in stunting the growth of our species.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
a reply to: nonspecific

I don't think there is any "organized" push by the religious or the west, other than the most fanatical in their attempts to gain control of certain regions and inflict their will on populations. This has always been the case, ISIS does it with knives and guns, Christianity does it by "helping" in the developing world (really nothing more than giving people necessities in exchange for their devotion).

There have always been fanatics wanting to push their religious will onto entire populations. The problem we are currently seeing in Iraq and Syria is a result of radicalization through inaction by other nations. We did little or nothing to help spread education and democratic principles in these countries, and our inaction is now coming back to haunt us.

Maybe if corporations and governments weren't so two-faced, willing to ignore Human Rights abuses when it suits their Oil deals, this wouldn't be the case. Unfortunately, the UK, US, Russia, much of Europe and Asian nations all turn a blind eye to the Human Rights abuses happening in these countries in favor of lucrative trade deals.

What we really need is a multi-faceted approach. We need to put down these violent extremists wherever we can, but we also need to stop the spread of religious indoctrination in schools, and hold governments to account for failing to provide their freedom and individual rights to their citizens. These governments need to encouraged to join the rest of the developed world, not allowed to just carry on pushing their religious beliefs onto their populations through unacceptable laws and delusional practices.

The biggest thing we could do to reduce religious belief is spread free access to the internet to every dark reach of these despotic nations and show the youth there that they have the power to take their country back from the old and decrepit religious preachers who want nothing more than to maintain a modern slavery with them at the top of the pile. These are massively corrupt people who use religious belief to maintain their control over the people, and freeing the younger generations from that ignorance is the key to encouraging a revolution and removing them from power.

I agree with you on all points but your last one.

I do not personally think that any action should be taken to change anyones beliefs. If someone chooses religion it is there choice but as I said earlier I feel that it will burn itself out over the next couple of hundred of years or so.

99% of the time it is not the People who want their nation to go to war. It is their speaker and messenger who wants war.

Because it is the messengers who dont get along. A messenger is a political leader.

originally posted by: Klassified
Religion isn't leaving us any time soon, OP. Although I do believe that the religions of fear will both change and decline into a very small minority of the earths population, given time. I am an atheist, but I'm not so sure personal spirituality, and a faith in someone/something greater is necessarily a bad thing. It is the organized religion(of fear) that has become the enemy of civilization and has been instrumental in stunting the growth of our species.

I fully agree, I also belive that personal spirituality and athiesm will eventually replace organised religion but over quite a long time.

originally posted by: Chronogoblin
religions is NOT on the decline, since your own statistic points it to being 84% of the World's population.

You missed the part about the UK, which IS seeing a decline in religious belief. As are many western nations.

Religious belief may not be on the decline in certain nations, but globally it is, using all the trusted and available data we have. You cannot trust the numbers presented by religious groups who have a story to maintain, and there are far too many nations who do absolutely no research regarding religious belief amongst their population.

Countries with a higher level of education, a higher level of democracy and a better standard of living are seeing a considerable decline in religious belief (all religious belief) whether you want to refute that or not.

Churches are closing at a remarkable rate in the UK, those left are being held afloat only by the trickle of immigrants from African and Eastern European nations. I have seen this myself in my own community. We had one church along the road from me when I was a teen, then it became a community center, now it holds religious events about three times a month, both Christian and Muslim services. That is down from once a week just five years ago.

Every week we have another leaflet through the door from a different "Christian" group begging us to come and "save our souls", and every time it's a different brand on it. They stop people in the street begging them to come to a service, they stand outside begging people to come in, the go into the local shop asking people to come next door and pray with them.
I know of at least ten neighbors along just my little road who have all complained to the council about this aggressive "Christianity" in our community, and the leaflets being shoved through peoples doors.

They are DESPERATE to keep their business going, and thankfully the people are generally telling them where to shove it

a reply to: nonspecific

It can be looked at in many ways, I found it interesting considering the times we are living in.

How Russians survived militant atheism to embrace God
www.csmonitor.com...

Today, less than 20 years after the collapse of the officially atheistic Soviet Union, Russia has emerged as the most God-believing nation in Europe, more so than Roman Catholic Italy or Protestant Britain. The independent Public Opinion Fund poll discovered this spring that 82 percent of Russians now say they are religious believers.

and influencing people works both ways, forcing opinions down others throats and ridiculing those that don't think like you think they should think

Throughout the history of the Soviet Union (1922-1991), Soviet authorities suppressed and persecuted various forms of Christianity to different extents depending on the particular era. Soviet policy, based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism, made atheism the official doctrine of the Soviet Union. Marxism-Leninism has consistently advocated the control, suppression, and the elimination of religious beliefs.[1] The state was committed to the destruction of religion,[2][3] and destroyed churches, mosques and temples, ridiculed, harassed and executed religious leaders, flooded the schools and media with atheistic teachings, and generally promoted atheism as the truth that society should accept.[4

en.wikipedia.org...

There is no atheist Utopia either.

"Every man appears to himself righteous,

originally posted by: nonspecific
I agree with you on all points but your last one.

I do not personally think that any action should be taken to change anyones beliefs. If someone chooses religion it is there choice but as I said earlier I feel that it will burn itself out over the next couple of hundred of years or so.

I don't think it's about changing beliefs, it's about giving people the information they need. If we educate children to be aware of the natural world around them, why is it any different to teaching children about evolution rather than creationism?

There are facts, and then there are beliefs. I don't think it's "changing anyones beliefs" to educate children and give young people access to the truth, rather than allowing them to be brainwashed, anymore than it's "changing beliefs" to teach kids about Shakespeare.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: Chronogoblin
religions is NOT on the decline, since your own statistic points it to being 84% of the World's population.

You missed the part about the UK, which IS seeing a decline in religious belief. As are many western nations.

Religious belief may not be on the decline in certain nations, but globally it is, using all the trusted and available data we have. You cannot trust the numbers presented by religious groups who have a story to maintain, and there are far too many nations who do absolutely no research regarding religious belief amongst their population.

Countries with a higher level of education, a higher level of democracy and a better standard of living are seeing a considerable decline in religious belief (all religious belief) whether you want to refute that or not.

Churches are closing at a remarkable rate in the UK, those left are being held afloat only by the trickle of immigrants from African and Eastern European nations. I have seen this myself in my own community. We had one church along the road from me when I was a teen, then it became a community center, now it holds religious events about three times a month, both Christian and Muslim services. That is down from once a week just five years ago.

Every week we have another leaflet through the door from a different "Christian" group begging us to come and "save our souls", and every time it's a different brand on it. They stop people in the street begging them to come to a service, they stand outside begging people to come in, the go into the local shop asking people to come next door and pray with them.
I know of at least ten neighbors along just my little road who have all complained to the council about this aggressive "Christianity" in our community, and the leaflets being shoved through peoples doors.

They are DESPERATE to keep their business going, and thankfully the people are generally telling them where to shove it

That pretty much sums up part of what I was saying. I live in England and there is a christian church up the road. Pretty much the only people who attend are African or eastern european first or second generation immigrants, That is people who were converted to christianity or raised in less developed countries.

I have also noticed(in a very small demographic) that there are very few people over the age of 20 and under 50 which could suggest a decline in the younger generations faith.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: nonspecific
I agree with you on all points but your last one.

I do not personally think that any action should be taken to change anyones beliefs. If someone chooses religion it is there choice but as I said earlier I feel that it will burn itself out over the next couple of hundred of years or so.

I don't think it's about changing beliefs, it's about giving people the information they need. If we educate children to be aware of the natural world around them, why is it any different to teaching children about evolution rather than creationism?

There are facts, and then there are beliefs. I don't think it's "changing anyones beliefs" to educate children and give young people access to the truth, rather than allowing them to be brainwashed, anymore than it's "changing beliefs" to teach kids about Shakespeare.

Yes I did not mean to suggest that you wished to change peoples beliefs, rather that education will lead people to gradually loose interest in outdated belief systems.

originally posted by: nonspecific
I disagree, Irreligion could one day be the domanant belief globally. It is entirely plausible that the religions of today will fall out of favour as many have done before.

The lack or rejection of a belief is not itself a belief.......just like how not collecting stamps isn't a hobby.

If you live in England then you might have seen the churches emptying on a sunday, and noticed the sea of silver and white haired folk shuffling out of the doors.

It (religion) is in massive decline in the UK with rational thought, critical thinking, skepticism and education being the main causes.

originally posted by: Prezbo369

originally posted by: nonspecific
I disagree, Irreligion could one day be the domanant belief globally. It is entirely plausible that the religions of today will fall out of favour as many have done before.

The lack or rejection of a belief is not itself a belief.......just like how not collecting stamps isn't a hobby.

It's really annoying when someone disagrees with you and makes you laugh at the same time it makes it very hard to form a response.

Could I then say that I belive that there is no logical basis to follow the rules of any religious organisation.