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The Dissolution of the United States as a Superpower

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posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 06:58 AM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: crazyewok

My money went further in Tokyo than USA

Maybe its the job I do i get paid more or something.


Or you had less to buy because you had a living space of 800 ft...hehe, I live in a 5000 sq ft house on 3 acres near Portland.


True but it depends if big large houses are what you value in life.

Anyway thats not anything to do with American "exceptionlism" just you guys being lucky and having lots and lots of land!
And even then it depends in the states were you live. I remember looking at property in San Diego when I got a job offer there and the prices were worse than here in the UK, same with Chicago.




posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 07:01 AM
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originally posted by: AinElohim

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
ACTUALLY Athens was the biggest city-state that practiced Democracy and is what you think of when you talk about Greek Democracy. It only applied to the rich, they kept slaves, and it ultimately failed since the majority of Athenian history was ruled by something other than Democracy. By all accounts there were Natives living in America that were freer than the Athenians.


times change, people grow up... civilizations evolve.

next for today;

Class assignment will be to research why "successful revolutions" or "change" is always brought on with less than 5% of a countries population. And why successful revolutions always seem to hit the 3% population mark?

Then we will apply this research data to a global community and try to figure out why United States is in fact so successful.


The United States is successful because for 100 years as Europe was pushed out of the Americas, the United States started imperialistic expansion under the guise of Manifest Destiny and racism against the Natives as we expanded west breaking treaty after treaty with the Natives. We immediately went against all principles of self-determination that we stood for and promoted our interests in Central and South America through military force over letting the native people govern (mostly because they weren't white).

Because of this reckless expansion we gained control of TONS of useful natural resources that boosted our economy considerably. Then after WWII, we were one of two super powers that hadn't had their country ravaged by war, so our economy was able to continue plugging along while the rest of western civilization had to rebuild their economies.


*it only takes a few people to change the world when holding the right idea, and as a matter of fact that is the only way in which change has ever come about, with 3% of respective populations (local scale or global)

The American Revolution for instance was fought against the British with 3% of the colonial population because it was an unpopular idea.



Yes I know this, but a lot has happened since the Revolution happened.



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 07:09 AM
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originally posted by: AinElohim

originally posted by: crazyewok
More like 1700-1945 so 245 years,


ah ok cool, sorry...

you can understand my lack of interest in Kings and Popes being an American and all?


To truly understand the history of the things you like, you must also understand the history of the things you don't like. If your view on history is incomplete then you form ignorant opinions about history like the American government being based solely on Greek Democracy when the government was really an amalgamation of British Parliament and the League of Iroquois. The reason you can also say that the government is based on Greek Democracy is because that is where Parliament got the idea for THEIR representation. Also, America is a republic NOT a democracy.



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 07:51 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: AinElohim

originally posted by: crazyewok
More like 1700-1945 so 245 years,


ah ok cool, sorry...

you can understand my lack of interest in Kings and Popes being an American and all?


Yup American=ignorant of history


actually, ignorant of British history

got it?



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 07:59 AM
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originally posted by: AinElohim

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: AinElohim

originally posted by: crazyewok
More like 1700-1945 so 245 years,


ah ok cool, sorry...

you can understand my lack of interest in Kings and Popes being an American and all?


Yup American=ignorant of history


actually, ignorant of British history

got it?


Not really.

As stated above by a fellow not so ignorant American. To understand you need to learn about other country's just not your own.

Especially the history of a country that most your ancestors came from.

British history before 1776 is American History. Saxon,Viking and Rome is both our History's.

And the influences both have had on each other good and bad from 1776 to 2015 have effected BOTH our country's.

All you have is a RAR RAR one sides biased BS understanding of history.

I made a point of studying American, Russian, French, Spanish , German as well as my own UK history in detail at college.



edit on 11-3-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 08:12 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: AinElohim

It DOES matter because you are trying to present a simplistic version of what influences went into creating our government. There were clearly more than just Greek influences. Native influence is probably even bigger than Greek influence. That is where we got the idea of a confederacy of states governed by a central body. Initially the idea was for the central body to be extremely weak (like the Natives), but that didn't work out so well, so we strengthened the federal government.


Native American Indians?

you lost me here...

at any rate I don't remember seeing any hand-prints in the Constitution or Deceleration.



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 08:20 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
As stated above by a fellow not so ignorant American. To understand you need to learn about other country's just not your own


LOL!

Most Americans are more interested in India than they are the tiny little Island called England


We know all there is to know about England and I for one personally am not interested in Kings/Queens and Popes.

It takes some kind of ignorance for a population to follow aristocratic inbred bloodline.

you guys enjoy...



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 08:30 AM
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a reply to: AinElohim

Well your attitude sums up why American is sinking in education like lead in water.


You cant even grasp the basic fact British History has influenced American History.


And to speak for all Americans is arrogant and ignorant to the extreme.


Thankfully many Americans are not as small minded and ignorant as you.

And no it is not


ignorance for a population to follow aristocratic inbred bloodline.


Learning and understanding of history is NEVER ignorant.

Arrogant refusal learn even the basics of you ancestors history is ignorant.


As for this


tiny little Island called England


Without us you would never has existed.

Your attitude gives America a bad name.





edit on 11-3-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 08:31 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

I like studying histories from all over the world. Asian history is incredibly rich and exciting but doesn't get its proper due during grade school. Understanding history is the key to understanding the present and where we are going into the future. You can't look at only a slice of history and think you have the whole picture, because that is never the case.



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 08:35 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: crazyewok

I like studying histories from all over the world. Asian history is incredibly rich and exciting but doesn't get its proper due during grade school. Understanding history is the key to understanding the present and where we are going into the future. You can't look at only a slice of history and think you have the whole picture, because that is never the case.


Unfortunately I never got the time to delve into Asia except it its basic form as I went off to do my Biology degree


But yeah I agree with you points its why I when I had to choose my 4 A level subjects I choose History along side the three sciences. Learning the all the ins and outs of European history helped a great deal when it came to American history.



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 08:37 AM
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originally posted by: AinElohim

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: AinElohim

It DOES matter because you are trying to present a simplistic version of what influences went into creating our government. There were clearly more than just Greek influences. Native influence is probably even bigger than Greek influence. That is where we got the idea of a confederacy of states governed by a central body. Initially the idea was for the central body to be extremely weak (like the Natives), but that didn't work out so well, so we strengthened the federal government.


Native American Indians?

you lost me here...

at any rate I don't remember seeing any hand-prints in the Constitution or Deceleration.


That may have been a bit racist... At the very least it shows a clear ignorance of what you are talking about. But in any case, how about learning something new?
Franklin and the Iroquois Foundations of the Constitution


When an Indian interpreter and old friend of Benjamin Franklin’s brought him the official transcript of the proceedings, Franklin immediately published the account.

Seven years later, he wrote a letter to James Parker, his New York City printing partner, on the importance of gaining and preserving the friendship of the Iroquois Indians. Arguing for a union of the colonies, he mused:

It would be a very strange Thing, if six Nations of Ignorant Savages should be capable of forming a Scheme for such an Union, and be able to execute it in such a Manner, as that it has subsisted Ages, and appears indissoluble; and yet that a like Union should be impracticable for ten or a Dozen English Colonies, to whom it is more necessary, and must be more advantageous; and who cannot be supposed to want an equal Understanding of their Interests.

Despite his use of the phrase Ignorant Savages, evidence shows that Franklin had a healthy respect for the Iroquois, and his language seems intended not as an insult to the Six Nations but as a backhanded slap at the colonists—who, in Franklin’s opinion, could learn a lot from the Iroquois about political unity. In an essay four decades later expressing unabashed admiration for the Iroquois, Franklin wrote: “Savages we call them, because their manners differ from ours, which we think the Perfection of Civility; they think the same of theirs.”


I recommend reading the whole page though.


By the time Franklin wrote his letter to Parker, the American colonists had developed significant diplomatic and trading relations with American Indian societies, and for most of the 18th century, they had relatively friendly relations with the Iroquois, whose territory comprised a large part of what is now New York State. Today many historians believe that Iroquoian ideas of unity, federalism, and balance of power directly influenced the United States’ system of government.

Among the founding fathers, Franklin may best illustrate the influence the Iroquois had on Americans. Franklin, who had a thriving printing business in Philadelphia, started printing small books containing proceedings of Indian treaty councils in 1736. They were the first distinctive forms of indigenous American literature and sold quite well, and he continued publishing such accounts until 1762.

Franklin carried the Iroquois concept of unity to Albany in 1754, where he presented his plan of union loosely patterned after the Iroquois Confederation. Several Iroquois leaders attended the Congress, convened at an Albany courthouse, to cement an alliance with the Iroquois against the French and to devise a plan for a union of the colonies. An aging Mohawk sachem called Hendrick received a special invitation from the acting governor of New York, James de Lancey, to attend the Congress and to provide information on the structure of the Iroquois government. After Hendrick spoke, DeLancey responded, “I hope that by this present Union, we shall grow up to a great height and be as powerful and famous as you were of old.”



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 08:38 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
Especially the history of a country that most your ancestors came from.
incorrect... most ancestry here now are from countries USA liberated. I myself being Slavic.


British history before 1776 is American History. Saxon,Viking and Rome is both our History's.
incorrect... America technically didn't exist until the date the Constitution was ratified in 1788. USA was solely independent of Britain in 1776 though and Britain still would not stop attacking. USA is an independent entity since 1776 and are happy to lose all association (England has a bad rap on the global stage, no one likes British occupiers)


And the influences both have had on each other good and bad from 1776 to 2015 have effected BOTH our country's.
Britain's imperialistic colonialist expansionism is their sole responsibility.


All you have is a RAR RAR one sides biased BS understanding of history.
All England has is global contempt... trust me, I know this living in a nation of immigrants.


edit on 11-3-2015 by AinElohim because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

What I did in college despite majoring in Computer Science, I chose a bunch of History classes to fill out my gen ed credits. I also like doing independent research into history as well. History was SO much more exciting in college than it was in High School. If high school history was as exciting as it turned out to be in college, I may have majored in History instead.



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 08:50 AM
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originally posted by: AinElohim
from countries USA liberated. I myself being Slavic.

WTF?

Who has the USA liberated?

sure the USA helped liberated country's in WW2 but that was down just as much to the UK too.

And no. many Americans are descended from Europe. Your founding fathers were English. The first American immigrants were English.

originally posted by: AinElohim
America technically didn't exist until the date the Constitution was ratified in 1788. USA was solely independent of Britain in 1776 though and Britain still would not stop attacking. USA in an independent entity since 1776 and are happy to lose all association

so what?

Your Founding fathers were born magically through immaculate conception?
Did the first American settlers just magically appear?

No they decended from Europe.

And there got many influences from Europe.


originally posted by: AinElohim
(England has a bad rap on the global stage, no one likes British occupiers)

the USA rap is hardly much better!

No one seems to like American occupiers either. Your numbers of dead and disabled vets from Vietnam, and the middle east show that.



originally posted by: AinElohim
Britain's imperialistic colonialist expansionism is their sole responsibility.

shows how little you know.

Your invasion of Canada is why the institutions like west point exist in the form it does today.

The British abolition of slavery is one of the factors that made slavery untenable in the USA.




originally posted by: AinElohim
trust me I know this living in a nation of immigrants.



Again ignorance.

The UK is about as multicultural as the USA.

And no I dont trust you. You seem to know # all about history.

You seem to only spout ignorant propaganda.

As the sight motto is deny ignorance I deny you.
edit on 11-3-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 08:52 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: crazyewok

What I did in college despite majoring in Computer Science, I chose a bunch of History classes to fill out my gen ed credits. I also like doing independent research into history as well. History was SO much more exciting in college than it was in High School. If high school history was as exciting as it turned out to be in college, I may have majored in History instead.


We don't do general ed here. You just study in the subject you choose.

But like you I do a lot of history reading.


O and yes I know mods this is off topic........BUT GIVE US A GD HISTORY FORUM!



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 08:59 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

LOL

Ben Franklin was in France financing our revolution...

James Madison began all the drafting.

But it is cool, I have no problem with including them Native Americans... we can't leave anyone out you know because we don't want them to feel bad (except the British)

edit on 11-3-2015 by AinElohim because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 09:20 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: crazyewok

What I did in college despite majoring in Computer Science, I chose a bunch of History classes to fill out my gen ed credits. I also like doing independent research into history as well. History was SO much more exciting in college than it was in High School. If high school history was as exciting as it turned out to be in college, I may have majored in History instead.


We don't do general ed here. You just study in the subject you choose.

But like you I do a lot of history reading.


I recently got turned onto this guy named James Loewen who wrote a bunch of history textbooks that illuminate many of the things they either lie about or just flat out omit in many history textbooks. I just read his book Lies My Teacher Told Me and it really educated me on things that I never realized were wrong. Granted he focuses on American history, but it is all good stuff none the less (especially if you are looking to learn about America's darker past).



O and yes I know mods this is off topic........BUT GIVE US A GD HISTORY FORUM!


HERE HERE! Need to necro that thread...



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 09:25 AM
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originally posted by: AinElohim
a reply to: Krazysh0t

LOL

Ben Franklin was in France financing our revolution...

James Madison began all the drafting.


Look, you can believe what you want about Native influences, but I presented CLEAR information that shows that our forefathers talked about and considered Iroquois society when discussing our own future government. Just because they aren't spelled out in the Constitution doesn't mean they aren't there.


But it is cool, I have no problem with including them Native Americans... we can't leave anyone out you know because we don't want them to feel bad (except the British)


I'm really confused what your problem with the British is. Our government is almost a mirror clone of the British government, except we have a President instead of King or Prime Minister. Fun Fact: George Washington didn't HAVE to step down after two terms. Initially the public wanted him to flat out be king, but named President. GW declined. Then when his second term was up, the populace AGAIN wanted him to stay in office, but he was done which set the precedent for two term Presidents.



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 09:34 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

~And you have the fact that large parts of the constitution and American law is based around British law and the British magna carta.

You just cant ignore the British influence.



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 09:58 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

Exactly. Saying that there are no British influences on the American government is ignorant, revisionist history. Heck even the grade school history classes that I widely despise admit this fact. You CAN'T shake those roots. Just like you can't deny that America has pretty much been Imperialist from its creation.



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