The Dissolution of the United States as a Superpower

a reply to: AinElohim

I DID acknowledge that there are Greek influences in our government. I am just disputing your claim that the government takes sources SOLELY from Greek influences.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

of course you do even if you don't know it... the Greek invented freedom and democracy.

just think where America was born of too... we "were" citizens of the British "Empire" and ruled by Kings (divine right of kings)

we kind of rebelled against all that jazz (being ruled by some distant king) and formed our own nation.

and it wasn't formed after Rome or England with Kings or Popes.

it was formed after the only civilization to ever do it successfully (Greek Democracy)

originally posted by: AinElohim
a reply to: Krazysh0t

of course you do even if you don't know it... the Greek invented freedom and democracy.

They may have invented Democracy, but they didn't invent freedom. Many Native cultures practiced freedom on levels that were unheard of in European and Asia countries up until the present day. Things like equality of the sexes, non-hierarchical government, equal representation of opinions, etc.

just think where America was born of too... we "were" citizens of an Empire ruled by Kings (divine right of kings)

We are an amalgamation of cultures from all over the world, not just Europe.

we kind of rebelled against all that jazz (being ruled by some distant king) and formed our own nation.

and it wasn't formed after Rome or England with Kings or Popes.

it was formed after the only civilization to ever do it successfully (the Greek Democracy)

ACTUALLY Athens was the biggest city-state that practiced Democracy and is what you think of when you talk about Greek Democracy. It only applied to the rich, they kept slaves, and it ultimately failed since the majority of Athenian history was ruled by something other than Democracy. By all accounts there were Natives living in America that were freer than the Athenians.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

it doesn't matter...

this is OUR flavor and the flavor of Western Civilization.

the Leaders of the Known Free World.

with only 5% of earths population...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
ACTUALLY Athens was the biggest city-state that practiced Democracy and is what you think of when you talk about Greek Democracy. It only applied to the rich, they kept slaves, and it ultimately failed since the majority of Athenian history was ruled by something other than Democracy. By all accounts there were Natives living in America that were freer than the Athenians.

times change, people grow up... civilizations evolve.

next for today;

Class assignment will be to research why "successful revolutions" or "change" is always brought on with less than 5% of a countries population. And why successful revolutions always seem to hit the 3% population mark?

Then we will apply this research data to a global community and try to figure out why United States is in fact so successful.

*it only takes a few people to change the world when holding the right idea, and as a matter of fact that is the only way in which change has ever come about, with 3% of respective populations (local scale or global)

The American Revolution for instance was fought against the British with 3% of the colonial population because it was an unpopular idea.

originally posted by: AinElohim
a reply to: Krazysh0t

of course you do even if you don't know it... the Greek invented freedom and democracy.

just think where America was born of too... we "were" citizens of the British "Empire" and ruled by Kings (divine right of kings)

we kind of rebelled against all that jazz (being ruled by some distant king) and formed our own nation.

and it wasn't formed after Rome or England with Kings or Popes.

it was formed after the only civilization to ever do it successfully (Greek Democracy)

Erm no your wrong.

By 1776 our king was just a figure head with the power of a wet fart.

The british pretty much gutted the power of the crown a hundred years before due to charles I being a douche

All important matters were decided bynour elected parliment.
Infact the was was basicaly fought because you wanted MP's in that parliment.

You know that whole pesky no taxiation without representation thing.

a reply to: crazyewok

lol!

but the British empire lasted like 160yrs correct?

and during this time they were Imperialists/Empire with a ruling by divine right King.

yeah they wouldn't stand for that in Ancient Greece either, when they were not warring with each other they allied against the Persian god king.

---

yeah we're a young nation but our beginnings were correct, it was unique...

we were so kinda lost after we won that many wanted George Washington to be "King"

but we molded our nation after Greek Democracy instead.

originally posted by: AinElohim

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: AinElohim

I'm not sure what you are trying to tell me here.

I am trying to tell you simply this...

The image you are painting of the United States with a Roman backdrop is wholly incorrect.

You being from Maryland I probably assumed you would know DC is modeled after Greek Classical Order.

Predating Rome with no roman influence whatsoever in the architecture down in DC.

en.wikipedia.org...

Greek New Rome was based on Democracy (Greek Democracy)

Rome of the west (savage Rome) was based on Imperialism. (Roman Imperialism)

So now we have two different forms of governance state above, which form of governance do you think we are based on? would it be the same which our architecture reflects?

Its does not matter for the topic what the US was founded after.


The point is all superpowers falls.

Rome fell and ancient greece fell.

All powers have there end.

Eventually.


Rome was only used a example as at its peak it was the worlds only known super power.
Its form of goverment being diffrent is irelevant.

originally posted by: crazyewok
The point is all superpowers falls.

well you will just have to look into population statistics for successful civilizations and the duration of their time.

Byzantium lasted over 1100 years... and if anything we have much in common with their democracy, although they were a christian nation we are secular.

we're successful with less than 5% it's how it goes, it's found in nature to be the way things are.

originally posted by: AinElohim
a reply to: crazyewok

lol!

but the British empire lasted like 160yrs correct?

and during this time they were Imperialists/Empire with a ruling by divine right King.

yeah they wouldn't stand for that in Ancient Greece either, when they were not warring with each other they allied against the Persian god king.

---

yeah we're a young nation but our beginnings were correct, it was unique...

we were so kinda lost after we won that many wanted George Washington to be "King"

but we molded our nation after Greek Democracy instead.

160?

More like 1700-1945 so 245 years,

And no the divine right of kings was thrown out the window in the mid 1600's when we beheaded charles I
When charles II came in we put massive restrictions on the monarchy.

It was a figure head nothing more. Our elected parliment made all important descions.



Now france and spain they were absolute monarchys.

originally posted by: crazyewok
More like 1700-1945 so 245 years,

ah ok cool, sorry...

you can understand my lack of interest in Kings and Popes being an American and all?

originally posted by: AinElohim

originally posted by: crazyewok
More like 1700-1945 so 245 years,

ah ok cool, sorry...

you can understand my lack of interest in Kings and Popes being an American and all?

Yup American=ignorant of history


Got it.

Remember arrogance and ignorance kill superpowers as much as barbarian armys and economic collaspses.

If America sucks go live in another country for a few years... You might change you opinion.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
If America sucks go live in another country for a few years... You might change you opinion.

This stupid argument...........


There is more to the world than just USA and the opressed 3rd world you know?



And the topics not about the US sucking.

Its about when the USA finaly falls as a superpower and in what form that will one day take,

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Xtrozero
If America sucks go live in another country for a few years... You might change you opinion.

This stupid argument...........


There is more to the world than just USA and the opressed 3rd world you know?



And the topics not about the US sucking.

Its about when the USA finaly falls as a superpower and in what form that will one day take,

I lived all over..Germany, France, Japan, Korea and spent time in over 70 other countries, so I kind of have a pretty good idea what others around the world live like....

Back to the OP, The big question is outside of China and Russia who has anything to be the next super power?

When you say fall as a superpower you must really mean fall as the #1 super power... We will be a superpower as long as the world is still somewhat whole. Russia and China have their own issues and even after Europe form their Union to equal us they are sliding away too, so I'm more worried about these other "super powers" and how long before they fraction into smaller states.

a reply to: Xtrozero

And if thats true you should understand its not just the US that has high standards of living and "free".


I have spent time in a few countrys includeing the US and quite frankly the USA is meh.
I dont see what the fuss is over?

Its not the worst country I have been too, nor is it the best,

originally posted by: crazyewok

Its not the worst country I have been too, nor is it the best,

I live very well here. For me its about quality of life. You take many places like Tokyo I could not have the same quality of life with 10 times my pay....

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: crazyewok

Its not the worst country I have been too, nor is it the best,

I live very well here. For me its about quality of life. You take many places like Tokyo I could not have the same quality of life with 10 times my pay....

Really?

My money went further in Tokyo than USA


Maybe its the job I do i get paid more or something.

originally posted by: crazyewok

My money went further in Tokyo than USA

Maybe its the job I do i get paid more or something.

Or you had less to buy because you had a living space of 800 ft...hehe, I live in a 5000 sq ft house on 3 acres near Portland.

a reply to: AinElohim

It DOES matter because you are trying to present a simplistic version of what influences went into creating our government. There were clearly more than just Greek influences. Native influence is probably even bigger than Greek influence. That is where we got the idea of a confederacy of states governed by a central body. Initially the idea was for the central body to be extremely weak (like the Natives), but that didn't work out so well, so we strengthened the federal government.